Winnipeg's Exchange District | East/West | Development - Page 23

rypinion · #**441** Posted **Jun 19, 2014, 5:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveosnyder

None really -- I just think it's a silly way to control speed. It tends to create a go-stop type of driving style. Decreasing lane width and adjusting the street curvature would create a constant low-speed movement. Just a preference I guess.

The current design of Lily has widened lanes at the bends, it would be better if it was designed similar to the bends on Bannatyne near Old Market Square.

Fair enough. I like it for the traffic calming, but probably more for the non-step for pedestrians. It just seems like a nice way to promote the area as a pedestrian area.

Agreed that keeping the lanes at the same width throughout the bends would be good, either instead of or in addition to the raised intersections.

steveosnyder · #**442** Posted **Jun 19, 2014, 7:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by rypinion

Fair enough. I like it for the traffic calming, but probably more for the non-step for pedestrians. It just seems like a nice way to promote the area as a pedestrian area.

Agreed that keeping the lanes at the same width throughout the bends would be good, either instead of or in addition to the raised intersections.

Directly after posting that I walked over to the study area... First, good luck getting Elgin to be a pedestrian corridor. It may be possible, but will not be a "short term" fix, it will take time. The bends in Lily are worse than I remember. To punctuate that, a WRX flew, and I mean FLEW by me as I was walking. The bend to the north (beside Sport Manitoba) actually looks like it has high speed geometries -- it slopes toward the inside of the curve to allow for faster speeds. And last, Market and James East of Lily both look way oversized. They look 5 lanes wide most of the way and are in serious need of narrowing.

The City would do well to convince Correnthia's and Boon Burger to move their patio to the back of the buildings to promote pedestrianization of John Hirsch.

oftheMoon · #**443** Posted **Jun 19, 2014, 11:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveosnyder

Directly after posting that I walked over to the study area... First, good luck getting Elgin to be a pedestrian corridor. It may be possible, but will not be a "short term" fix, it will take time.

Regarding Elgin, why do you think it'll take time vs. a "short term" fix? Just curious.

I see it as a street in really bad condition. Close it down at both ends and make the fix. Anything will be an improvement for sure regardless I suppose!

steveosnyder · #**444** Posted **Jun 20, 2014, 1:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by oftheMoon

Regarding Elgin, why do you think it'll take time vs. a "short term" fix? Just curious.

I see it as a street in really bad condition. Close it down at both ends and make the fix. Anything will be an improvement for sure regardless I suppose!

Currently it is a back lane. A lot of things need to change for it to ever turn into anything nice. It has old fire escapes and garage/loading doors, and completely excludes any sort of location pedestrians would want to go. If pedestrians have no reason to use it you shouldn't expect them to.

And I don't think they will ever be able to close it completely because it has loading doors along it.

It would require a lot of work and some trailblazing by some interested people to get that place into any sort of shape to be considered pedestrianized, and none of those things can happen in the "short term" as the report seems to think.

esquire · #**445** Posted **Jun 20, 2014, 1:59 PM**

Nygard had an interesting idea for that alley about 10 or 12 years ago which was to basically turn it into sort-of, but not-quite a mall:

drew · #**446** Posted **Jun 20, 2014, 2:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveosnyder

Currently it is a back lane. A lot of things need to change for it to ever turn into anything nice. It has old fire escapes and garage/loading doors, and completely excludes any sort of location pedestrians would want to go. If pedestrians have no reason to use it you shouldn't expect them to.

And I don't think they will ever be able to close it completely because it has loading doors along it.

Elgin is a gravel backlane that happens to have a street name.

As for the loading docks, the only one that actually still serves that purpose is the loading docks for the Bricks Fine Furniture. The rest of the "Street" are all residences/office or vacant buildings.

The only real purpose it serves is for garbage and recycling storage and pick-up, as well as a bit of parking.

It would be nice to have it improved from its current uneven gravel surface.

steveosnyder · #**447** Posted **Jun 20, 2014, 2:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

Nygard had an interesting idea for that alley about 10 or 12 years ago which was to basically turn it into sort-of, but not-quite a mall:

I would rather see something more like Melbourne's laneways...

steveosnyder · #**448** Posted **Jun 20, 2014, 2:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew

Elgin is a gravel backlane that happens to have a street name.

As for the loading docks, the only one that actually still serves that purpose is the loading docks for the Bricks Fine Furniture. The rest of the "Street" are all residences/office or vacant buildings.

The only real purpose it serves is for garbage and recycling storage and pick-up, as well as a bit of parking.

It would be nice to have it improved from its current uneven gravel surface.

I'm not disagreeing with anything here -- I am merely pointing out the fact that the MMM study calls this a "short term" project, which will be "complete" in the next year. I'm saying it will take a lot longer than that, and ongoing nurturing

drew · #**449** Posted **Jun 20, 2014, 2:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveosnyder

I'm not disagreeing with anything here -- I am merely pointing out the fact that the MMM study calls this a "short term" project, which will be "complete" in the next year. I'm saying it will take a lot longer than that, and ongoing nurturing

From that report, the James Street improvements would be fantastic if they came to reality. It is a wide and barren street now. That rendering looked awesome.

As for Elgin, I wonder where they hope the garbage collection will have to move to eventually make it a pedestrian laneway? Not a criticism, but a just a question.

rypinion · #**450** Posted **Jun 20, 2014, 3:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew

As for Elgin, I wonder where they hope the garbage collection will have to move to eventually make it a pedestrian laneway? Not a criticism, but a just a question.

I don't think it's pedestrian only, the PDF says "Elgin to become a pedestrian first interpretive street". The cross-section page specifically says "shared pedestrian / vehicle roadway".

In addition to Brick's, the housing co-op at Market/Bertha uses it as one of the two entrance/exits for their garage. As for pedestrians, I believe some of the people who live on James can use Elgin as an entrance/exit (and do).

esquire · #**451** Posted **Jun 20, 2014, 3:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by rypinion

I don't think it's pedestrian only, the PDF says "Elgin to become a pedestrian first interpretive street". The cross-section page specifically says "shared pedestrian / vehicle roadway".

Sounds like the same thing that was tried with John Hirsch Pl., although in that case everyone seems to have given up and the alley has more or less reverted to being a backlane.

If Elgin and John Hirsch became successful pedestrian-first streets, that would really change the vibe of the East Exchange.

rypinion · #**452** Posted **Jun 20, 2014, 3:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

If Elgin and John Hirsch became successful pedestrian-first streets, that would really change the vibe of the East Exchange.

As steveo pointed out yesterday, the key is likely to actually have something on those streets. He suggested patios on John Hirsch instead of Bannatyne for Boon and Corrientes.

drew · #**453** Posted **Jun 20, 2014, 3:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by rypinion

I don't think it's pedestrian only, the PDF says "Elgin to become a pedestrian first interpretive street". The cross-section page specifically says "shared pedestrian / vehicle roadway".

In addition to Brick's, the housing co-op at Market/Bertha uses it as one of the two entrance/exits for their garage. As for pedestrians, I believe some of the people who live on James can use Elgin as an entrance/exit (and do).

Gotcha.

Our offices back onto Elgin, so I use the alley door a few times a week. It is certainly pretty deserted back there now, but that should change a bit now that 132 James is beginning to fill up, 128 James is full, and the condo conversions of Market take shape.

Incidentally, the plows dug up and bent an approximately 20-foot long piece of the Elgin railway track over this past winter. It's sitting out there now.

esquire · #**454** Posted **Jun 20, 2014, 3:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by rypinion

As steveo pointed out yesterday, the key is likely to actually have something on those streets. He suggested patios on John Hirsch instead of Bannatyne for Boon and Corrientes.

I liked that idea. In the 80s and early 90s there actually were a couple of things fronting on Hirsch, but since that bar with the big backyard patio closed (was it called Lot 115 or something like that?) there hasn't been anything to draw people. If you walk up and down Hirsch you can clearly see that it was intended to be a pedestrian area when it was converted from a railway alley, but it has been invaded by parked cars and dumpsters and has effectively become a backlane.

bomberjet · #**455** Posted **Jun 20, 2014, 3:20 PM**

Might as well just get rid of the old tracks on Elgin. Sure it's kind of cool, but really doesn't do anything. Seems like more of a tripping hazard than anything. I really like what is proposed for the Exchange. Just need to make it happen!

rypinion · #**456** Posted **Jun 20, 2014, 3:25 PM**

One interesting recent "development" on John Hirsch is that the two big garbage bins that used to be on the sidewalk here:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.89790...-7x_ejc9oQ!2e0

Are now placed in a parking spot in the lot between the two buildings. Not a huge deal, but I'm curious as to why. It does open up the sidewalk and make it nicer.

cllew · #**457** Posted **Jun 20, 2014, 4:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by rypinion

One interesting recent "development" on John Hirsch is that the two big garbage bins that used to be on the sidewalk here:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.89790...-7x_ejc9oQ!2e0

Are now placed in a parking spot in the lot between the two buildings. Not a huge deal, but I'm curious as to why. It does open up the sidewalk and make it nicer.

I vaguely recall reading the minutes of one of the city committee meetings earlier this year, and one of the area councilors complaining about those cans location and asking that the "administration" to do something about them.

WJG · #**458** Posted **Jun 21, 2014, 5:31 PM**

Really cool to hear about what Elgin and John Hirsch were originally intended to be. I had no idea and even went and took a walk down both streets after reading the last page. Hopefully they both reach their full potential and pedestrian-first corridors some day.

esquire · #**459** Posted **Jun 26, 2014, 7:09 PM**

Passed through the Exchange and noticed a few things:

-Work is underway in earnest on the Galpern Building at Rorie and McDermot, but no public announcement that I'm aware of

-Looks like that cafe on Pacific is coming along (or will it be something else? a sign says the space is for lease). Too bad that building next to the space was torn down, but on the upside the space looks like it would make for a fantastic coffee house if someone with good design sense got a hold of it.

-Sky finally has more commercial tenants along Waterfront

Nice to see some more progress in the area.

1ajs · #**460** Posted **Jun 26, 2014, 7:37 PM**

sky had comercial space in it? or u mean strand or exelsor or ship?