NEW YORK | World Trade Center Memorial & Transit Hub

[jayden]

Yeah, everything about the Port Authority sucks, but we already know this.

In person, this is stunning. The amount of tourists and commuters were staring up taking pictures. I do agree that it looks a bit sterile, but I also feel it is appropriate and looks very clean.

I saw on another site people complaining about the massive flag.

To that regard I say Fuck you.

[antinimby]

I loved the flag. It gives the place a little bit of color otherwise it felt too empty. I am looking forward to the stores opening up.

Speaking of flags, I saw one time the base of 1WTC lit up in the US flag (a year or two ago, can't remember exactly when) but have not seen it since. They should do it on special occasions like July 4th or 9/11. It was a beautiful sight.

[drumz0rz]

So I passed through the station during a normal rush hour time and considered it a bit more and I had some additional thoughts against the station.

First off, there are no clocks. The only clock I could find was in the small hard to notice white LED display at track level. I realized everyone has phones and watches and everything but a clock would have been very useful. Apparently Calatrava has some vendetta against time so he purposely omitted clocks.

Second, it functions poorly as a commuter transit station, which is it's primary function. We've already discussed at length the fact that the platforms are too narrow, too crowded with columns and stairs, and the stairs are insufficient to move a packed rush hour train's worth of people in a reasonable time frame. If you're unlucky enough to be in a car that gaps two stairs good luck getting off the platform in under 5 minutes.

But what I find more frustrating is the lack of signage useful for commuters. I've found a few of the "PATH Vision" TVs, they're hidden behind stairwells on the platforms where only a tiny number of people could see them at a time. Beyond the small text crawler at the bottom of these screens there is zero indication anywhere in the station of arrival and departure times. Sure signs say "Hoboken Platform 1, Newark Platform 2" but beyond that, there's nothing. In the enormous vacuum of the transit hall, beneath the rib cage of supports above, there is nothing telling you when the next trains depart.

I really hope they plan to fix this in some way. Information on the platform is non-existent and will likely remain that way barring a major redesign, but the transit hall could still be saved by installing monitors or LED signage in key places such as above the ticket machines or along the back (West) wall (still under construction).

If this were truly a "transportation hub" there would be more emphasis on the actual transportation including better integration between the subway and PATH lines. Instead it seems we got a very pretty, very expensive hallway lined with overpriced tourist trap shops. TBH, the temporary platforms built in haste after 9/11 functioned much better for their intended purpose than what we got $4,000,000,000 later.

[jayden]

Has there ever been something that states a train's arrival aside from Newark Penn and Journal Square? In my opinion that has always been a huge issue. Having boards all around like NY Penn or even Newark Penn would be much more useful.

I do think however that once the remaining sections open they will do something about the confusion. Especially since subway lines will also be connected.

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by chris08876

The PA employees and security are going to have thier voices sore from telling people not to film/take pics. While the locals will either not do it or sneak a pic when no ones looking, they still have 50+ million visitors a year that will do it. 50 million times they have to say no pics. I hope they have a hard time, especially when they tell some one no pics, and he speaks and understands Mandarin only.

Kinda futile in the Oculus. Its going to be a major tourist destination regardless.

That's called Harassment. I don't like they are harassing with those tourists. Leave those people alone! The tourist had it right to take a pictures & video, as well. No one ever threatened to arrested for taking a pictures. No one! I want you tell PA & security that they have to leave the tourists alone. Leave it alone! They had respect that.

[Nexis4Jersey]

I have a lawyer looking into the legality of the PA photo ban...

[BBMW]

I just went through there today (First time actually under the Oculus.) What a momentous waste of money (both this and the Fulton Transportation Center.) I don't see any of these adding anything to the transportation functionality of the area. Just big, expensive, useless monuments to government excess.

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by jayden

Yeah, everything about the Port Authority sucks, but we already know this.

In person, this is stunning. The amount of tourists and commuters were staring up taking pictures. I do agree that it looks a bit sterile, but I also feel it is appropriate and looks very clean.

I saw on another site people complaining about the massive flag.

To that regard I say Fuck you.

Who the fuck has a problem with the American flag hanging there?

What spoiled, petulant children.

[chris08876]

Originally Posted by N830MH

That's called Harassment. I don't like they are harassing with those tourists. Leave those people alone! The tourist had it right to take a pictures & video, as well. No one ever threatened to arrested for taking a pictures. No one! I want you tell PA & security that they have to leave the tourists alone. Leave it alone! They had respect that.

I was there yesterday night checking it out after a drunken stupor with a chap at the Babylon Hookah Lounge on 34th Street. No one bothered us and we took pics. They where cleaning the floors with mini street cleaners. Almost looks like those machines that they use to clean the ice in MSG for a hockey game.

From my experience with PA employees in the past, its always been the female employees that have the nerve to make it their duty to say no pics. Usually the males could care less but every once in a while you will get the douche bag with low testosterone and a crappy looking wife to tell you no pics. They just hate their lives that's all.

But when it doubt, just sneak a quick pic. No need for long exposure shots there. Those long empty hallways btw in the Oculus are going to be shops. If you look in the cracks of the doors, you'll see a lot of construction material. There's also plans to have vehicles go underneath it. Some informative banners with info are below the elevated stairs.

Even in NY Penn I see people taking shots. Its something thats hit or miss with the transit employees. Even in Newark Penn, you;ll sometimes see rail fanning. Again, most of it goes unnoticed and most reasonable people don't care.

[drumz0rz]

Originally Posted by chris08876

From my experience with PA employees in the past, its always been the female employees that have the nerve to make it their duty to say no pics. Usually the males could care less but every once in a while you will get the douche bag with low testosterone and a crappy looking wife to tell you no pics. They just hate their lives that's all.

Your sweeping generalizations and apparent misogyny are not appreciated Chris.

I did see on the diagrams they have on display cars and buses below the mall which is interesting as I have not seen any site plans showing the parking garages. Entrance will be through the vehicle security center (VSC) but I wonder who will park there? Would a tour group from CT drive into the garage? Would it unload on the street and only the driver go down there?I'm not sure how that will work.

[chris08876]

I'd imagine its geared for employees or even visitors doing business in the complex. All below grade of course. Also security purposes. Another way to scan and keep track of who's coming and going.

I'll give them credit for making the site safe but not making it too overbearing. Even on the street level, where they are working on barriers and stuff, they are incorporating it to essentially blend in with the memorial. My first impressions of it was that its mini underground city. One can walk the whole length of the complex, and even to Fulton. Its the Rockefeller Center of Lower Manhattan. Made me kinda wish that they would get on with a new NY Penn.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by drumz0rz

SWe've already discussed at length the fact that the platforms are too narrow, too crowded with columns and stairs, and the stairs are insufficient to move a packed rush hour train's worth of people in a reasonable time frame. If you're unlucky enough to be in a car that gaps two stairs good luck getting off the platform in under 5 minutes.

The main staircases to the platforms aren't even open yet. There's crowding because only one of the three main staircases is even functioning.

This is the risk when opening a station in segments; people start complaining when the project isn't even fully functional. The station won't be completely finished for a few years (if we're including all the subway connections). Issues of crowding/egress are not really worth considering until the station is done.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Originally Posted by Crawford

The main staircases to the platforms aren't even open yet. There's crowding because only one of the three main staircases is even functioning.

This is the risk when opening a station in segments; people start complaining when the project isn't even fully functional. The station won't be completely finished for a few years (if we're including all the subway connections). Issues of crowding/egress are not really worth considering until the station is done.

Where are the main staircases? Still doesn't address the narrow platforms....god forbid there was a delay down there during rush hour , it would spill onto the concourse.

[Arthururban]

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/articl...ansportation-h

Port Authority declines to celebrate Calatrava-designed transportation hub

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/sites/...on%20hub_0.png

By Dana Rubinstein on Feb. 22, 2016

The Santiago Calatrava-designed World Trade Center Transportation Hub cost something like $4 billion in taxpayer dollars, but when it opens the first week in March, it will do so with nary an official peep.

The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which controls the train station, will not hold an event the week the hub opens, according to Ron Marsico, a spokesman for the bistate agency that controls the train station.

As of Friday, when an event was still under discussion by authority staff, Pat Foye, the authority's executive director, told POLITICO New York that he wouldn’t be attending.

"I’m proud of the work that the Port Authority and hundreds of skilled union workers performed on the Hub,” said Foye, in an emailed statement. “Since I arrived here, I have been troubled with the huge cost of the Hub at a time of limited resources for infrastructure so I’m passing on the event.”

In a follow-up interview Monday morning, Foye, who is leaving his position at the end of the month, expanded on the concept.

“The thing is a symbol of excess,” he said.

By Monday afternoon, the prospective event had been scrapped.

Calatrava, the Spanish architect who designed the transportation hub, declined to address Foye’s comments. But his arched-steel hub has long been a divisive issue, both within the Port Authority and more broadly, and a bitter moment in an otherwise celebrated career.

It’s years late and billions over budget. Compared to the beleaguered Port Authority Bus Terminal and the downtrodden Penn Station, it won’t serve that many commuters.

......In contrast, New York magazine architecture critic Justin Davidson was taken with the final product, arguing that the hub “challenges the city’s public architecture to rise above habitual cut corners and rectilinear repetition.” Also: “The cost of beauty is often high.”

Both he and Calatrava himself have compared it to Grand Central Terminal.

(Critics counter that Grand Central Terminal was built with private funds and, in inflation-adjusted terms, cost about half as much.)

The Port Authority is controlled by New Jersey Governor Chris Christie and New York Governor Andrew Cuomo.

Neither seems particularly eager to mark milestones in the completion of the World Trade Center redevelopment.

Both similarly declined to commemorate the opening of One World Trade Center.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Old news , the station already opened...

[drumz0rz]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

Where are the main staircases? Still doesn't address the narrow platforms....god forbid there was a delay down there during rush hour , it would spill onto the concourse.

I'm also curious where these mythical "unopened staircases" are. They have completed two of the platforms. You can walk them end to end. All staircases, escalators and elevators are open. The platforms are too narrow. The stairs are inadequate. The overcrowding during rush hour is worse than it was in the temporary station this replaced.

At the least they could follow the procedure they use at 33rd street, where they open one side to unload the train before opening the other side to load it. They don't do that now so instead you have a packed train from NJ unloading onto an already packed platform of commuters heading out of the city. It's a mess. Once up to the concourse level it's ok, but the fact that this is supposed to be a transit station not a fancy mall shows how misguided the decision makers were.

Let's not even get into the fact that on the widest platform, where they could have had a wide functional staircase, they threw a support column right in the middle of it, breaking it in half and greatly reducing the capacity...

Compare what we got with what we were promised:

[C.]

Originally Posted by drumz0rz

I'm also curious where these mythical "unopened staircases" are. They have completed two of the platforms. You can walk them end to end. All staircases, escalators and elevators are open. The platforms are too narrow. The stairs are inadequate. The overcrowding during rush hour is worse than it was in the temporary station this replaced.

At the least they could follow the procedure they use at 33rd street, where they open one side to unload the train before opening the other side to load it. They don't do that now so instead you have a packed train from NJ unloading onto an already packed platform of commuters heading out of the city. It's a mess. Once up to the concourse level it's ok, but the fact that this is supposed to be a transit station not a fancy mall shows how misguided the decision makers were.

Let's not even get into the fact that on the widest platform, where they could have had a wide functional staircase, they threw a support column right in the middle of it, breaking it in half and greatly reducing the capacity...

Compare what we got with what we were promised:

Yup. +1. All of it. I've read on many transit blogs that the platforms and station setup did nothing to improve PATH capacity. It will basically be the same capacity as pre-2001. What a wasted opportunity.

Especially the platforms. They are so narrow and takes awhile for them to clear of riders coming off trains. Good points on the way the 33rd street station is setup. It would make perfect sense if WTC was configured the same way but nope.

[Nexis4Jersey]

God forbid there was an emergency down there , there would be a deadly stampede.... If your going opposite of the rush hour crowd , its already very hard to move...

[Submariner]

Only the PA could budget an 8 track train station (with two tracks still not operational, 1.5 decades after 9/11) for 2 billion dollars, blow through the budget, double it's original cost, take years longer than promised and fuck up one of the most important parts of any mass transit hub - smooth ingress and egress.

[jayden]

*sighs*