VIA Discussion Thread

[VIce]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

I'm not a Calgary expert, but it seems like the city is ripe for commuter rail. For one, the CP tracks run right through the heart of downtown and such a large percent of jobs in Calgary are downtown. Secondly, the city is reaching full build-out and it seems likely that places like Airdrie and Cochrane (not to mention our beloved Okotoks) will mushroom in size, even more so than they are mushrooming currently. These places are too far out and uneconomical for LRT. Finally, the freight rail lines heading downtown are in good condition - well maintained and relatively straight. This is quite different from Vancouver where most rail lines were actually old interurban lines that have been left to rot for half a century, and where you can't run mainline rail service without significant capital investment because of tight turns and steep gradients.

The main obstacle is CP rail. CP has always been stubbornly opposed to sharing their tracks with passenger services, and has caused headaches for agencies like GO/Metrolinx. Still, CP has allowed agencies like GO and Translink to run morning-in, afternoon-out commuter services. It may require some investment in passing tracks and signal upgrades, but Calgary could probably get a commuter rail system up and running.

Anyway, that's not related to VIA, except that investing in commuter train infrastructure would probably enable another provider (like VIA) to run passenger services beyond Cochrane to Canmore and Banff.

I think Calgary could use a regional transit agency. What mode they choose is almost secondary. I know there's OnIt, but that's a trial program and only deals with communities south of Calgary. One agency with routes to/from Airdrie, Okotoks, Cochrane, Chestermere, and then onward to Canmore and Banff; a central barn downtown near the rail mainline instead of just curbside stops with walkable access to LRT lines; airport access, some LRT connections. And hey, why not let Red Arrow and co use the barn too, instead of blocking 9th ave. If Calgary Transit ever gets the smart cards working properly, integrate one fare system. And then hey, if ridership warrants rail move to rail.

This is all pretty pie-in-the-sky, and maybe untenable for a few reasons. But I would still love one regional transit agency with some Calgary Transit fare integration instead of a bunch of competing private and public transit agencies with their own independent systems.

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ One of the things that really makes train travel exceptional IMO is the ability get up and walk around, sit in a lounge car, socialize, etc. Except that VIA doesn't offer this basic amenity on its busiest and most travelled routes. To put it bluntly, this sucks.

Whatever fleet VIA buys next, there really should be at the very least a Euro-style stand-up café-lounge area.

Agreed. A Toronto-Montreal bar/lounge/group table car would be absolutely great. I write this while currently on a VIA train Toronto to Montreal. I would love a place to wander over and have a beer for an hour to kill the time and meet my friends scattered throughout the train.

I do like the sounds of improving the amount of dedicated tracks to increase speeds, train capacity and reliability. I also want to echo sentiment that the new fleet should have more options than currently. I would love a discount-bare-bones option, or a slow night train etc. for a more affordable option in addition to the regular cars and business class.

[esquire]

^ VIA has operated an overnight train off-and-on over the years... I rode one of the iterations back around 2000 or so, you boarded in Toronto late at night and got to Montreal early in the morning... I think the train parked for a while in Kingston or Brockville.

Anyway, the train had a dome car/lounge so it was a great experience to enjoy a continental breakfast in the scenic dome as you enjoyed the views rolling into Montreal... a bit of a rare experience since dome cars are rarely seen between Montreal and Toronto.

[GreatTallNorth2]

No mention of VIA rail in the budget? If not, that's a shame.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

No mention of VIA rail in the budget? If not, that's a shame.

Just some studies for HFR. Nothing to come for the next few years.

[nephersir7]

Quebec pension fund Caisse’s Montreal LRT plan derails Via’s pitch for dedicated passenger tracks

TORONTO — Via Rail was in talks with Quebec’s pension fund about building a dedicated set of passenger tracks between Quebec City and Toronto, but that fell apart after the Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec proposed a $5.5-billion commuter line for Montreal instead.

Via chief executive Yves Desjardins-Siciliano said the development is a mixed blessing, as it shows that there’s investor appetite for rail projects but appears to eliminate a major contender for his own plan.

“The Caisse announcement is somewhat bittersweet,” Desjardins-Siciliano said in an interview Wednesday at Via’s offices near Toronto’s Union Station.

“On the one hand, it supports our suggestion; on the other hand, their people will now be focused on delivering a very aggressive project on a very aggressive timeline, so it makes our project less of a possibility for them.”

The Caisse did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

In the two years since he was appointed CEO of the Crown corporation, Desjardins-Siciliano has been a vocal advocate of dedicated tracks on the busy Quebec City-Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto corridor, which would allow for more frequent and faster train service.

Currently, Via operates on rail lines owned by Canadian National Railway Co., which often results in delays as slower, heavier freight trains take priority over lighter, faster passenger trains.


In 2015, Via’s trains were on time 71 per cent of the time, a significant deterioration from 85 per cent in 2011.

Desjardins-Siciliano doesn’t blame CN for this, but says it’s simply the reality of “running incompatible services on shared infrastructure.”

The choice is stark, according to Via. In its five-year corporate plan, tabled in the House of Commons last week, the railway said it “can no longer function within its existing framework.” A combination of aging trains and shared infrastructure is hurting service, which will result in reduced ridership and greater operating deficits.

“Left unchanged, Via Rail will become more costly and less relevant to Canadians,” the report says. “Ultimately, it will be unable to fulfill its mandate.”

Left unchanged, Via Rail will become more costly and less relevant to Canadians.
As a solution, Desjardins-Siciliano has been pitching a public-private partnership that would see the federal government team up with a major pension fund to build a dedicated track and replace Via’s aging fleet, ideally with electric trains.

Via says it needs approximately $4 billion to do this — $2 billion to build the track and another $2 billion to procure electric cars and the grid needed to run them.

In its March budget, the Liberal government only pledged $11 million to Via for pre-procurement work and a study of the dedicated-track proposal, but Desjardins-Siciliano said it’s a good start.

“We’re very encouraged because a new government, after five months in power, recognizes both the urgency of the fleet renewal as well as the importance of modernizing the business as a whole,” he said.

Via will bring a finalized proposal to Ottawa by the end of this year, and Desjardins-Siciliano is hopeful that there will be more funding in next year’s budget.

In the meantime, Via is getting plenty of interest from pension funds, and the Caisse’s recent proposal — to invest $3 billion in a light-rail network in Montreal, with the government funding the remaining $2.5 billion — proves that it’s viable, he said.

“There are Canadian funds interested and there are foreign funds interested as well,” he said.

“We’re getting unsolicited approaches by parties who want to discuss this project and see how they could be involved in it.”

http://business.financialpost.com/ne...ssenger-tracks

[Rico Rommheim]

Poor Via. They have no luck.

[BretttheRiderFan]

Been thinking about maybe doing a weekend excursion to Vancouver on The Canadian this summer, has anyone here ever traveled on Via in the west? Would you recommend it? How frequent are the stops, and for how long? And do you get sleep cabins in economy?

[casper]

Originally Posted by BretttheRiderFan

Been thinking about maybe doing a weekend excursion to Vancouver on The Canadian this summer, has anyone here ever traveled on Via in the west? Would you recommend it? How frequent are the stops, and for how long? And do you get sleep cabins in economy?

I have done Saskatoon to Vancouver. If you are going to do Edmonton to Vancouver the only major stop I had was Jasper, where we had around an hour to get off the train and wonder around town. There is also an impressive waterfall along the route, they announce it and slow down as the pass.

Their are a few regular stops, most stops are flag stops. Flag stops are ones where the train only stops if someone has a pre-booked ticket to get on or off at that stop, otherwise they sail through.

Economy is ok, the seats extends and you can sleep in them. Think business class seating on an airline. No bed per say but it is fairly comfortable. Meals are extra in Economy. The higher class service get first choice of times in the dinning car, however you can still book dinner in the dinning car. You still also have access to a dome car.

The sleeper class is quite a bit better. There is a parlour car in addition to the dome car. Meals are included but overall cost is quite a bit more expensive.

[BretttheRiderFan]

Sounds like I could tough it out in economy. Definitely something I'll consider this summer, just for the novelty of it if anything. Have only traveled intercity rail on the Acela.

[ghYHZ]

Here’s a link to VIA’s new 30 page brochure on the trains it operates from coast to coast It gives you a pretty good idea of what to expect in service and accommodations.... and certainly makes you want to just hop on a train and go!

http://www.viarail.ca/sites/all/file...Interactif.pdf

I’ve done several trips on the CANADIAN . Below is a link to my Trip Report from a couple of years ago. I’ve always been in a sleeper…..but what I’ve seen of the seats in economy, they certainly looked comfortable!

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/inde...n-with-photos/

[Mister F]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Dedicated tracks won't fix everything.

Originally Posted by milomilo

Either you have been extremely unlucky or something is very wrong on the Via rail ROW. In all the many miles I have traveled on UK rail networks (in a more densely populated area) I never had a train delayed due to a struck pedestrian. Although when something like that did happen on the news, it sounds like a multiple hour delay was fairly standard.

These posts are a few months old now but I think a response is warranted. It's true that dedicated tracks wouldn't fix everything, but they would make a big impact. According to Via, on-time performance on the tracks they own in eastern Ontario is "well over 95%". The rest of the network is on time 65-80% of the time depending on the year. On the London-Toronto route, reliability is all over the place - anywhere from 38% to 88%. Truly abysmal performance. So if you take the train every day, dedicated tracks mean the difference between being late several time a week and being late once every month or two. That's a huge difference in the eyes of the public.

Another benefit is the frequency and regularity of the schedules. Right now between Toronto and Montreal the headway is anything from 50 minutes to 3 hours. There's no rhyme or reason to it. Dedicated tracks mean that you can have a train leaving hourly on a predictable, easy to memorize schedule.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by BretttheRiderFan

Been thinking about maybe doing a weekend excursion to Vancouver on The Canadian this summer, has anyone here ever traveled on Via in the west? Would you recommend it? How frequent are the stops, and for how long? And do you get sleep cabins in economy?

I went from Toronto to Vancouver last year, with a three-day stop in Winnipeg (well worth the stop!). I booked a cabin for one - you are never in doubt about how old the equipment is, but it works. The food is terrific. I got down from the train in Edmonton but the only real "stop" was the hour or so in Jasper. The experience is about the train itself, moreso than the scenery, although that has it's moments (for me, it was more the scale of the country that made an impact, more than the scenery per se, with some great exceptions). People might be disappointed that you pass through the mountains mostly at night. I don't think I could have done the trip in Economy, and I would not have enjoyed it as much without the stop in Winnipeg. I still think its a trip every Canadian should make once in their life.

[casper]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I went from Toronto to Vancouver last year, with a three-day stop in Winnipeg (well worth the stop!). I booked a cabin for one - you are never in doubt about how old the equipment is, but it works. The food is terrific. I got down from the train in Edmonton but the only real "stop" was the hour or so in Jasper. The experience is about the train itself, moreso than the scenery, although that has it's moments (for me, it was more the scale of the country that made an impact, more than the scenery per se, with some great exceptions). People might be disappointed that you pass through the mountains mostly at night. I don't think I could have done the trip in Economy, and I would not have enjoyed it as much without the stop in Winnipeg. I still think its a trip every Canadian should make once in their life.

I agree Winnipeg is a great city to visit.

Economy is tolerable for one night. I would not do it for five nights straight.

Timing may have changed not certain. When I did it Saskatoon to Edmonton is overnight. You leave Edmonton early morning, travel through the Rockies during the day hitting Jasper around noon. What you miss out on is the Fraser Canyon as you pass through there during the early morning. Talking to the conductor he said basically the train is almost always on-time. They can travel faster that they normally do to account for delays and traffic.

[White Pine]

Found this on Urban Toronto:

VIA Rail is issuing an RFP for new rolling stock!

http://www.viarail.ca/sites/all/file...ENGER_RAIL.pdf

[Innsertnamehere]

Interesting, they are looking for hybrid locos.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by RFP

the new rolling stock must be capable of both diesel and electric operation, with seamless transition

Interesting.

[rbt]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Interesting.

Even if nothing else in VIA operations changed, this would have a big impact on how Montreal operations work.

You can't run a diesel in the Montreal train shed; VIA currently has diesel only and sometimes doesn't get the "turn off engine and coast through" quite correct.

[MolsonExport]

i just came back from a trip to China, where I had the pleasure of taking numerous HSR trips (Shanghai to Wuxi, and back; Wuxi to Suzhou and back; plus the Maglev from/to Pudong). China is light years ahead of us on intercity rail transit.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

i just came back from a trip to China, where I had the pleasure of taking numerous HSR trips (Shanghai to Wuxi, and back; Wuxi to Suzhou and back; plus the Maglev from/to Pudong). China is light years ahead of us on intercity rail transit.

Agreed, but there are several reasons for this. For one the govement has the power to do whatever they want, when they want without worrying about NIMBYs and Environmental Studies. Labour costs are low, making it cheaper to build and they have almost 40 times our population.

Having said that, more can and should be done here, especially in the Windsor/Quebec city, the Calgary/Edmonton and the Vancouver/Seattle corridors, where populations are large enough to support it. Even though there is a long history of trains, geography (both physical and population) is working against making any significant improvements on other routes.

It will be a long time before we see 300+ km/h express trains, but even 200 km/h trains on dedicated track so that passenger trains aren't having to compete with slow freight trains would be a massive improvement.