Detroit: Part 2. Away from the decay.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by hudkina

You do realize that the Census Bureau numbers are the actual "guess" and the Social Compact study is an actual study of the city. Also, I was quoting the average income, not the median income, but even then would you expect a city where half the population earns over $30,000 a year to look like that? Especially when many American cities have similar median incomes?

I'm sure lots of people have terrible opinions of Pittsburgh but how many of them are close to the actual truth? Is Pittsburgh nothing but a polluted wasteland of abandoned steel factories surrounded by neighborhoods of toothless Appalachians?

LOL, the Census is the official estimate. Social Compact is an unknown noprofit. Feel free to show skepticism on Census estimates (which are conducted by Phds, are lavishly funded, and have very large sample sizes), but then why on earth would you trust some tiny, underfunded nonprofit with an agenda?

Average income is meaningless. Median income is an accurate barometer of community wealth.

These shots are more "typical' Detroit than in the other thread. It will be interesting to see what happens in these neighborhoods over the next few years. Will they fall into abandonment, or will they be saved by some forthcoming demographic trend (immigration, gentrification, high fuel costs, etc.)?

[hudkina]

The Census Bureau bases their population estimates on county-level data and then disperses the "estimates" among the cities based on housing construction. They give far great emphasis on areas where new housing is always going on the market and tend to overlook built-out cities. They even operate under the assumption that a certain amount of housing built before a certain year is going to be "retired". The American Community Survey which tries to get an arguably more accurate mid-census picture of our cities is still a relatively new concept and we won't know how accurate they are until the 2010 data is released.

I'm not saying that the Social Compact study (keep in mind their studies have shown similar results to many other cities throughout the nation) is the ultimate authority on Detroit's population, but to assume that the Census estimates are is just as misguided.

[Michi]

Originally Posted by Jularc

^ I am amazed you can find those expensive looking homes in the city of Detroit. Nice stuff. How much for one of those?

As the saying goes: "Detroit invented the middle class".

Detroit was once known as the slumless city. The Paris of the Midwest. The Detroit of today, though aging, is still a relatively new phenomenon. Southeast Michigan, also called "Detroit" is among (at least has been among) the most wealthy areas of the country.

There was a period of about 30 years, starting in the 1960s where the city took a poop and cleaned its colon of all of its people that could move out. They now hover around the city leaching on in every way imaginable, yet keep enough distance to claim they are not accountable for the mess they left behind. Look up "American Throw-away society" in the dictionary and all the photos are from Detroit.

The housing stock that you see in Detroit is very much representative of the city in its heyday. Automobile and other industrial inventors and innovators who made fortunes in this part of the country building the exclusive neighborhoods. Well-off middle class homes from the brick to the wood-frame line the streets both densly and semi-densly. The working class masses built their dwellings near the old "verticle" factories, in a density pattern that allowed them to walk or take a short transit ride to the jobsite.

All that is completely gone now and the functionality of Detroit is turned upside down. During the mass exodus, the infiltration of poverty took over the neighborhoods which were extremely vulnerable. Part of the reason why almost every commercial strip is dead is because they were built for transit, which we no longer have. All of the new replacements are strip malls built to accomodate for the automobile.

For a great personal touch on this kind of imagry, take a look at this fascinating slideshow:

http://download.gannett.edgesuite.ne...eet/index.html

[mrherodotus]

Originally Posted by hudkina

You do realize that the Census Bureau numbers are the actual "guess" and the Social Compact study is an actual study of the city. Also, I was quoting the average income, not the median income, but even then would you expect a city where half the population earns over $30,000 a year to look like that? Especially when many American cities have similar median incomes?

I'm sure lots of people have terrible opinions of Pittsburgh but how many of them are close to the actual truth? Is Pittsburgh nothing but a polluted wasteland of abandoned steel factories surrounded by neighborhoods of toothless Appalachians?

Actually, the one thing Pittsburgh had in it's favor over many other industrial cities, is the fact that nearly all of it's industry was along the rivers. This was largely due to two factors. First was the easy transportation the rivers provided. Second was the fact that Pittsburgh's rugged terrain meant that the river banks were one of the few places that had enough level land to build huge complexes on. This level land also attracted the rail lines, reinforcing the attractiveness of the river banks to industry. Why does this help now? It helps because of the high value of riverfront property. Because the land is so valuable, the empty mills were quickly swept away, and the land redeveloped. Thus Pittsburgh is largely spared being littered with hulking abandoned industrial structures like many other cities. Many of the surrounding mill towns, with their riverfronts being less valuable, have not been so lucky.

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by Michi

Detroit was once known as the slumless city. The Paris of the Midwest. The Detroit of today, though aging, is still a relatively new phenomenon. Southeast Michigan, also called "Detroit" is among (at least has been among) the most wealthy areas of the country.

[/url]

Just to add on to your points.

The Per Capita Personal Income of the Detroit-Warren-Livonia, MI MSA ranks 57th out of the country's 363 MSAs at $38,174 in 2006. The PCPI increased by 1.8% from 2005-2006 compared to 3.9% from 2004-2005.

The Total Personal Income of the Detroit-Warren-Livonia, MI MSA ranks 12th at $170,600 (millions). The TPI increased by 1.5% from 2005-2006 compared to 3.5% from 2004-2005.

Detroit MSA PCPI is 105% of the national PCPI of $36,307.

Detroit MSA PCPI is 100% (ever so slightly above) of the PCPI of all metropolitan areas: $38,109.

http://bea.gov/newsreleases/regional...ewsrelease.htm

[Wheelingman04]

I love these neighborhood photo threads.

[boden]

Good work hero. Did you take any downtown pics?

[mrherodotus]

Originally Posted by boden

Good work hero. Did you take any downtown pics?

Of course. Stay tuned.

[boden]

I figured as much!

[Austinlee]

Nice work dotus. You are snappin pics like your life depended on it.

[Wigs]

very interesting thread

Originally Posted by Crawford

LOL, the Census is the official estimate. Social Compact is an unknown noprofit. Feel free to show skepticism on Census estimates (which are conducted by Phds, are lavishly funded, and have very large sample sizes), but then why on earth would you trust some tiny, underfunded nonprofit with an agenda?

I believe estimate is the key word. For example, the city of St. Louis has fought like hell with the Census Bureau because of their undercounts.
we'll have to wait till 2010 to see just how much population loss has occurred or if Detroit's population has stabilized by then.

[illmatic774]

Wasn't there a point in time where one of these estimates undercounted Chicago by about 200,000 people?

Yeah, I'll wait until 2010. There is no way that Detroit has already emptied out to below 850,000 people. I'm thinking closer to 905,000-915,000 range.

[ChrisLA]

Detroit is one of those cities I have always been interested in seeing. Although I like to visit, its has not been a city I would plan a whole vacation around. I keep hoping my manger would send me there to see our operations center in the suburbs of Detroit. My only concern is he one of the micro mangers, and probably wouldn't want me to venture too far from hotel during my free time. He's all about image (which is okay to a point), but with me he wouldn't have to worry about me being unprofessional or getting into any trouble or embarrassing him. Its not me, nor is it my style.

Anyway back to the subject.

Great photos, I wouldn't say these neighborhoods look all that great, but yet not what one would expect. Detroit has such a bad reputation, so its good to see these.

[ChrisLA]

The main streets in Detroit are soooo wide. Good for traffic, but not so good for pedestrians. 6 lanes plus parking.




Take away two of the lanes on that Detroit picture and there you have something similar. This is Central Avenue on the east side of south central Los Angeles. A photo Segun took back in Jaunary 2007. In fact a lot of south central LA commercial blvds look similar to the one above. Especially the ones on the east side as the further west you go in the hood the better the area gets, and the commercial streets are much cleaner, example would be Crenshaw Blvd.

courtesy of Segun

[Michi]

Originally Posted by illmatic774

Wasn't there a point in time where one of these estimates undercounted Chicago by about 200,000 people?

Yeah, I'll wait until 2010. There is no way that Detroit has already emptied out to below 850,000 people. I'm thinking closer to 905,000-915,000 range.

SEMCOG is projecting the city's population somewhere around 600,000 by 2030.

What do you mean, ChrisLA? I didn't get the connection of venturing away from your surroundings and image. If you ever DO get the opportunity to visit Detroit, I HIGHLY recommend it (to anyone). Especially, if you have a tour guide (you don't even have to ask). Everyone should visit Detroit at least once. Not only is it the best city to tell America's story, it is one of few cities that changed the world over. It may have been reduced to dust, but you can still spend a good amount of time being a tourist in the city and surrounding area.

[Michi]

dp

[ChrisLA]

Originally Posted by Michi

SEMCOG is projecting the city's population somewhere around 600,000 by 2030.

What do you mean, ChrisLA? I didn't get the connection of venturing away from your surroundings and image. If you ever DO get the opportunity to visit Detroit, I HIGHLY recommend it (to anyone). Especially, if you have a tour guide (you don't even have to ask). Everyone should visit Detroit at least once. Not only is it the best city to tell America's story, it is one of few cities that changed the world over. It may have been reduced to dust, but you can still spend a good amount of time being a tourist in the city and surrounding area.

Michi,

My manager has this thing about how his department is viewed, and he wants nothing that would bring any negative light on us. Some of my other colleagues have visited our Michigan operations centerk, and he strongly suggested before the trip they not even drink acholol.

He's also acompany them since our only reason for visiting the site is to meet those we work with daily, and tour the site. I remember one co-worker was invited to go out to a bar get a tour around Auburn Hills, and he again strongly suggested not to. One person even said he didn't even want to them order certain foods ( I think it was a steak).

Don't get me wrong, he's a very nice manager, and one of the best I've worked with. He's a very easy going person, just talks to much in the morning when I'm tired and ready to go home (lol). He seems to forget I've worked all night, and he had a good nights sleep.

Anyway I don't make a big deal about it since I see it like this. If they area paying for a business trip, I can understand his concerns. Personally he'w wouldn't have to worry about me getting drunk, I'm one of those who always like to be in control of myself. I do drink, but I always limit it to no more than two drink anyway.

Who knows, if I do make it our for a tour with this company, I'll have to find a way to see Detroit on my free time.

[the pope]

generic compliment.

[DetroitSky]

Nice shots.

[mthq]

good to see the better side of Detroit!