Should Canada buy Detroit?

[north 42]

I love Detroit, but I would never want it to be part of Canada! The Detroit and Windsor region works just fine the way it is. I would never want to see Windsor and Detroit with no international border between them, ever!

[middeljohn]

Originally Posted by jd3189

Instead of Canada trying to buy Detroit, why not both Canada and the US try to revive Detroit back to a normal state to get it back running again. Throughout the decline since the mid-20th century, I have yet to see real solid government interference in preventing many neighborhoods in Detroit from falling even more into decay and crime. The problems are simply going to continue unless real economic aid is given and big changes happen. I'm sure this that been though out before and it either is close to impossible or did occur but failed. However, the best way to revive Detroit is to create a better relationship between the US and Canada in this international border. Canada trying to fix a problem by just absorbing Detroit and hoping that the "Canada effect" will work is very strange.

Yes, but from Canada's perspective what would the benefit be? Yes it's somewhat unpleasant having a city with a 40+/100k murder rate bordering us, but that doesn't stop Windsor from having one of the lowest murder rates in all of Canada. Detroit proper's economy is struggling, but while Windsor isn't booming right now, it's still posting steady GDP per capita numbers. A healthy Detroit would certainly be better for Windsor, but by how much? Certainly not nearly as much as a healthy Detroit would help the States. So why should the two countries split the bill? And how would you suggest Canada receive a return on its investment?

[dc_denizen]

Metro Detroit is healthy; probably healthier than Montreal no?

The aesthetics of Detroit are the problem.

[middeljohn]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

Yes, but you think your going to simply buy a little debt and get half a trillion dollars worth of added value for free? Surely you jest.

That's like saying 'I replaced your mailbox therefore I get to own your house'. LMAO. Um, No.

The federal govt and state government get billions in revenue every year from the 5 million people who live in Metro Detroit, both from income and property. Not to mention export dollars from Ford and GM.

And then there are institutions like the University of Michigan, one of the most formidable public universities in the United States and 23rd in the world according to the 2013 Academic Ranking of World Universities, higher than ANY Canadian school. That alone will set you back what? 15, 20 billion?

I mean, the cost just keeps adding up and keep in mind, Canada already has 1.2 trillion in sovereign debt.

No I'm saying if a parcel of land belonging to an owner is worth $100k that doesn't mean that Canada would pay the American government $100k in order for that parcel to now be in Canada. They would pay a fraction of that, possibly a few years' property taxes for that land to join Canada. The land itself still belongs to its owner.

As for roads and infrastructure you can't just value them based off how much it cost to build them. You value them based off what they contribute to the economy with maybe a sample.of consideration given to the initial capital costs. Detroit has an extensive freeway system that costs a hell of a lot of money to maintain. I don't know what the net +/- is for how the freeways contribute to Detroit's economy annually, but it would be a fraction of what it cost to build them. Not to mention, if it weren't for the freeways, Detroit would probably have never found itself in its current state.

The airport is most likely owned by a government corporation, so yes that would get purchased out-right.

And Universities are non-profit are they not? Meaning there's no income taxing. The only taxes the university generates are sales taxes from on-site retail, property and the income taxes from its employees. There's definitely a lot of value in the university, but I doubt it's as much as your estimate.

[pdxtex]

the invasion has already started. detroit has one chain grocery store and 7 tim hortons! makes you think....

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by middeljohn

No I'm saying if a parcel of land belonging to an owner is worth $100k that doesn't mean that Canada would pay the American government $100k in order for that parcel to now be in Canada. They would pay a fraction of that, possibly a few years' property taxes for that land to join Canada. The land itself still belongs to its owner.

As for roads and infrastructure you can't just value them based off how much it cost to build them. You value them based off what they contribute to the economy with maybe a sample.of consideration given to the initial capital costs. Detroit has an extensive freeway system that costs a hell of a lot of money to maintain. I don't know what the net +/- is for how the freeways contribute to Detroit's economy annually, but it would be a fraction of what it cost to build them. Not to mention, if it weren't for the freeways, Detroit would probably have never found itself in its current state.

The airport is most likely owned by a government corporation, so yes that would get purchased out-right.

And Universities are non-profit are they not? Meaning there's no income taxing. The only taxes the university generates are sales taxes from on-site retail, property and the income taxes from its employees. There's definitely a lot of value in the university, but I doubt it's as much as your estimate.

Well, you are free to continue thinking in vain that it would be simple to negotiate the purchase of a major US metro area of 5 million people and that its as simple as assuming debt, but there are far reaching implications and costs that you have not considered namely everything I've listef plus far more.

Furthermore, we could also say yes, you can have the land but not our people therefore you must pay them fair market value for their property and their moving expenses to relocate elseawhere within the realm of the United States.

Same goes for our corporations, institutions etc.

LOL

[M II A II R II K]

It would also mean having to create a Detroit local section in the Canada forum.

[jd3189]

Originally Posted by middeljohn

Yes, but from Canada's perspective what would the benefit be? Yes it's somewhat unpleasant having a city with a 40+/100k murder rate bordering us, but that doesn't stop Windsor from having one of the lowest murder rates in all of Canada. Detroit proper's economy is struggling, but while Windsor isn't booming right now, it's still posting steady GDP per capita numbers. A healthy Detroit would certainly be better for Windsor, but by how much? Certainly not nearly as much as a healthy Detroit would help the States. So why should the two countries split the bill? And how would you suggest Canada receive a return on its investment?

For Canada, increased trade with the US and if Detroit shares industry and services with Windsor, the metro would once again become an economic powerhouse with two countries participating. Hell, this could also lead to more connections between Toronto and Chicago and a revival of the Rust Belt as a whole with a connection between Ontario and the midwestern US states. And there will have to be some changes within Detroit to decrease its crime rate. This would be a good time for gentrification to occur.

[MolsonExport]

Instead of buying Detroit, here's a question: How much money would it take for America to accept Rob Ford? As they used to say in the old Cadbury Caramilk commercial: "My people are willing to pay....Anything." (to which the Devil replied mischievously "Anything?!?!?!")

• Video Link

[sbarn]

Originally Posted by middeljohn

No I'm saying if a parcel of land belonging to an owner is worth $100k that doesn't mean that Canada would pay the American government $100k in order for that parcel to now be in Canada. They would pay a fraction of that, possibly a few years' property taxes for that land to join Canada. The land itself still belongs to its owner.

Why would Canada just pay a few years property taxes? In your theoretical argument, Canada would be purchasing a revenue stream. Therefore, some sort of Cap Rate should be applied to that revenue stream to assess its value. This applies to private property as well as other assets located in the Detroit metro.

[jlousa]

While it's fun to think about what ifs, this is just too far removed from reality to even consider. The auto industry doesn't need to be linked to Detroit and they would move their head office into another US city if this were to happen.

A better and slightly less unrealistic scenario (although still unlikely to ever happen) would consist of offering to buy up little enclaves that are only accessible via Canada such as Point Roberts parts of Alaska, Northwest Angle and Elm Point in Minnesota, Province Point and Alburgh in Vermont. This would affect less then 10K people in total and these communities are already intergrated into Canadian society now. The US could in turn use the money from the sale to rebuild Detroit or any other cause of it's choosing.

[dc_denizen]

Or maybe Quebec could sell the US the southern bank of the St Lawrence river to raise revenue after separation from Canada...

[kool maudit]

for better and for worse, detroit lies outside of canada's symbolic repertoire and dramatic capabilities.

[brickell]

Will gladly trade Detroit for the Maritimes.

[mousquet]

Would it feel insulting to anyone if I said I'd rather see the US purchase entire Canada? I mean, seriously...

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

The aesthetics of Detroit are the problem.

You mean it looks too nice? I heard a couple of times they used to call it the "North-American Paris", something like that. Unless you think Paris is ugly - some might think so, huh? Idk - I guess it was a compliment to the city. Despite the bad losses, they've still got some real nice buildings over there. I could see many times on here and elsewhere.

My guess is Detroit will neither be saved by Canada nor even by MI in particular, but rather by foreign investors in general. At least if the city can fairly upgrade its infrastructures. That's where MI state must help somehow. Because someday, they might finally end up realizing that their burbs may be well off, they're still sort of random (thus a little boring) when compared to an experienced, long time lived-in urban center. So MI badly needs Detroit indeed. Plain fact, it's their only city known abroad. Everybody has heard of it, worldwide. Now as far as I know in France, only very very few have heard of Grand Rapids or Lansing, and yet you hear about the US from early in the morning to the late evening, every damn day over here. So MI would better realize they really need Detroit. Otherwise, they merely don't exist in the world.

That's my opinion about that.

[north 42]

That would be the Paris of the Midwest!

[DecoJim]

Originally Posted by mousquet

You mean it looks too nice? I heard a couple of times they used to call it the "North-American Paris", something like that. Unless you think Paris is ugly - some might think so, huh? Idk - I guess it was a compliment to the city. Despite the bad losses, they've still got some real nice buildings over there. I could see many times on here and elsewhere.

Yes Detroit was once called "The Paris of the Midwest" but that was over 100 years ago when the city was known for its mansard-roofed mansions, wide tree-lined streets, etc. In its earliest days, Detroit was a French town from 1701-1760 and some French influence remained. Unfortunately that phrase "The Paris of the Midwest" can no longer be applied to Detroit. Yes Detroit has some nice buildings, I have photographed many of them, but there are also far too many shabby looking buildings and houses as well.

As far as Detroit being purchased by Canada. Pleeease... Canada already has Hamilton.

[M II A II R II K]

Maybe Detroit is more like the Paris of the Middle East, like Beirut.

[fflint]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

Or maybe Quebec could sell the US the southern bank of the St Lawrence river to raise revenue after separation from Canada...

I wonder if the US would benefit from a separate nation of Quebec.

[ue]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

Metro Detroit is healthy; probably healthier than Montreal no?

The aesthetics of Detroit are the problem.

Of course! And it's probably healthier than Toronto and Calgary too! After all, our cities are vastly inferior to every American city.

Originally Posted by DecoJim

Yes Detroit was once called "The Paris of the Midwest" but that was over 100 years ago when the city was known for its mansard-roofed mansions, wide tree-lined streets, etc. In its earliest days, Detroit was a French town from 1701-1760 and some French influence remained. Unfortunately that phrase "The Paris of the Midwest" can no longer be applied to Detroit. Yes Detroit has some nice buildings, I have photographed many of them, but there are also far too many shabby looking buildings and houses as well.

As far as Detroit being purchased by Canada. Pleeease... Canada already has Hamilton.

Haha, I wouldn't call Hamilton within the same realms of American rust belt cities like Detroit. If anything, it highlights the differences between the countries handling de-industralization. Hamilton is poor, but it doesn't have the abandonment or the crime that cities like Detroit or Cleveland have.