Third Harbour Crossing

[FutureofHalifax]

This past week alone there was 2 accidents on the Mackay bridge and traffic was backed up to where the Penhorn Mall once stood.

There was an accident heading into Dartmouth also where the Penhorn Mall stood and the traffic backed up to Burnside.

The reality is that Halifax is growing and the current bridges have officially reached there safe weight and traffic capacities and this was discussed with the public in 2008 - 9 years ago...The time to start the 3rd crossing is now and that will allow for a better public transit system, potential rail system, and move goods and people in and out of the city much faster and safer.

Build the 3rd crossing now!

[musicman]

Originally Posted by IanWatson

You've edited your post. Originally it was, "750000000 million", which would indeed be 750 trillion. I figured it was a typo; I was making a joke about it.

Sorry had a string of very very shitty days... was a small thing but kinda sent me over the edge..

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by FutureofHalifax

This past week alone there was 2 accidents on the Mackay bridge and traffic was backed up to where the Penhorn Mall once stood.

There was an accident heading into Dartmouth also where the Penhorn Mall stood and the traffic backed up to Burnside.

The reality is that Halifax is growing and the current bridges have officially reached there safe weight and traffic capacities and this was discussed with the public in 2008 - 9 years ago...The time to start the 3rd crossing is now and that will allow for a better public transit system, potential rail system, and move goods and people in and out of the city much faster and safer.

Build the 3rd crossing now!

Shhhh! The members of the Anti-Destination League WANT you to sit in gridlock while they lobby for useless bike lanes. They will fight to the death against road network improvements while happily wanting to spend millions on a "bike flyover" for the Halifax side of the MacDonald Bridge.

Too many members of Council pander to the squeaky-wheel minority while those of us who pay the freight sit in traffic.

[IanWatson]

Originally Posted by musicman

Sorry had a string of very very shitty days... was a small thing but kinda sent me over the edge..

Fair enough. And humour can be hard to communicate through the internet sometimes. Hope your days are getting better.

[Ziobrop]

Originally Posted by FutureofHalifax

This past week alone there was 2 accidents on the Mackay bridge and traffic was backed up to where the Penhorn Mall once stood.

There was an accident heading into Dartmouth also where the Penhorn Mall stood and the traffic backed up to Burnside.

The reality is that Halifax is growing and the current bridges have officially reached there safe weight and traffic capacities and this was discussed with the public in 2008 - 9 years ago...The time to start the 3rd crossing is now and that will allow for a better public transit system, potential rail system, and move goods and people in and out of the city much faster and safer.

Build the 3rd crossing now!

growing yes - but cross harbour traffic is largely static.

[FutureofHalifax]

Now that both bridges have reached maximum traffic and weight limits in combination with the growing population in the Dartmouth south area, it might make sense for the Mayor of Halifax to visit some Asian investment opportunities through the Infrastructure Bank to get the 3rd bridge crossing built:

http://www.infrastructure.gc.ca/CIB-BIC/index-eng.html

This would allow for Halifax’s transit system to have a proper ring road, get people on public transit, encourage bicycle traffic, move truck and tractor trailers out of the city immediately onto the highway. Lastly it would allow for a proper discussion around the issue of rail to happen.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by FutureofHalifax

Now that both bridges have reached maximum traffic and weight limits in combination with the growing population in the Dartmouth south area, it might make sense for the Mayor of Halifax to visit some Asian investment opportunities through the Infrastructure Bank to get the 3rd bridge crossing built:

http://www.infrastructure.gc.ca/CIB-BIC/index-eng.html

This would allow for Halifax’s transit system to have a proper ring road, get people on public transit, encourage bicycle traffic, move truck and tractor trailers out of the city immediately onto the highway. Lastly it would allow for a proper discussion around the issue of rail to happen.

Asian investment opportunities? In our infrastructure?

Just curious, but what does that mean in terms of ownership and responsibility?

[KnoxfordGuy]

Where would this new bridge be placed? Where would there be a good location? If its already been discussed in sorry lol.


Maybe a tunnel?

[TheGreenBastard]

Originally Posted by KnoxfordGuy

Where would this new bridge be placed? Where would there be a good location? If its already been discussed in sorry lol.


Maybe a tunnel?

Hal Term/South End to Woodside/HWY 111 via George's Island I think is what I've heard, but I don't think HHB would be allowed to build on/through George's Island, so to me, I think a tunnel would be more appropriate, but more expensive.

[Keith P.]

HHB released a full feasibility study back in 2008 or so (?) on both bridge and tunnel options. Of course being Halifax, the idea was immediately dismissed as being unnecessary. The current Council member for DT Dartmouth decried the idea as enabling sprawl in the Shearwater/Woodside area, which was badbadbad. Of course since nothing was done with the concept, since then we have seen approved development in Bedford West & South for thousands of new units, all of which will dump onto the overburdened Bedford Highway and 102, leading to even greater gridlock than currently exists, with n plans extant for improving those entries into the city.

Nobody does brain-dead planning quite like Halifax.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Nobody does brain-dead planning quite like Halifax.

I don't know if it's changing but it never seemed there was much sense of urgency to planning in Halifax. Politicians and staff alike tended to take a leisurely approach to everything and the excuse used was that Halifax was just a small city that wasn't really growing much so none of it mattered. But the city grew by 8,000 people last year, and its traffic is already not great. There has been no substantial improvement to transit either. Either there is going to have to be some more ambitious infrastructure development or the city is going to waste a lot of its potential.

This already happened a lot as you say with all the development that went to areas like Bedford and Hammonds Plains.

Could the lack of growth in bridge traffic be due to the fact that they've been at capacity for a while now at rush hour? If they were closed tomorrow they'd have 0 traffic, but that wouldn't be a good argument for why the city doesn't need bridges.

[Phalanx]

Originally Posted by TheGreenBastard

Hal Term/South End to Woodside/HWY 111 via George's Island I think is what I've heard, but I don't think HHB would be allowed to build on/through George's Island, so to me, I think a tunnel would be more appropriate, but more expensive.

Not necessarily. It really depends on the type of tunnel. If we're talking about boring through bedrock, then yeah, it's going to be more expensive. If we're talking about immersed tube, it'd probably be in the same ballpark, give or take.

I did some spitballing in this post (though take with a huge grain of salt as a 1:1 comparison is difficult to do, especially when comparing costs in another country from a couple of decades ago).

[TheGreenBastard]

Originally Posted by Phalanx

Not necessarily. It really depends on the type of tunnel. If we're talking about boring through bedrock, then yeah, it's going to be more expensive. If we're talking about immersed tube, it'd probably be in the same ballpark, give or take.

I did some spitballing in this post (though take with a huge grain of salt as a 1:1 comparison is difficult to do, especially when comparing costs in another country from a couple of decades ago).

Ah yes, I remember your post.

[FutureofHalifax]

The bridge is the only alternative for a number of reasons: We need 4 lanes for passenger vehicles, 2 bicycle lanes, and room for future LRT line.

Now that both bridges have reached maximum traffic and weight limits in combination with the growing population in the Dartmouth south area, it might make sense for the Mayor of Halifax to visit some Asian investment opportunities through the Infrastructure Bank to get the 3rd bridge crossing built:

http://www.infrastructure.gc.ca/CIB-BIC/index-eng.html

[FutureofHalifax]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Asian investment opportunities? In our infrastructure?

Just curious, but what does that mean in terms of ownership and responsibility?

Ownership questions are non-issues - the only way to get this done on time, under-budget and in a high quality manner to ensure the private sector gets it done. The Infrastructure Bank of Canada is the only solution and it shuts down the "we can't afford it crowd"

Now that both bridges have reached maximum traffic and weight limits in combination with the growing population in the Dartmouth south area, it might make sense for the Mayor of Halifax to visit some Asian investment opportunities through the Infrastructure Bank to get the 3rd bridge crossing built:

http://www.infrastructure.gc.ca/CIB-BIC/index-eng.html

[Phalanx]

Originally Posted by FutureofHalifax

The bridge is the only alternative for a number of reasons: We need 4 lanes for passenger vehicles, 2 bicycle lanes, and room for future LRT line.
....

Err? The immersed tube references I used were 6 lane. Wider is possible.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by FutureofHalifax

Ownership questions are non-issues - the only way to get this done on time, under-budget and in a high quality manner to ensure the private sector gets it done. The Infrastructure Bank of Canada is the only solution and it shuts down the "we can't afford it crowd"

What do you mean that ownership questions are non-issues? Can you explain?

[FutureofHalifax]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

What do you mean that ownership questions are non-issues? Can you explain?

I don't understand the relevance of the question - can you explain? If it is a foreign company that owns the 3rd bridge what difference does it make if the construction of the bridge is done without the use of tax dollars?

The entire purpose for Canada's Infrastructure Bank is to let communities like Halifax build something like a 3rd bridge that it needs - but doesn't have a large enough tax base to fund themselves because of other more important perceived political priorities.

Safety, smooth flow of people and goods, improved and meaningful public transit, a proper ring road; are the issues that matter and a 3rd bridge allows this to happen and Canada's Infrastructure Bank gets it done!

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by FutureofHalifax

I don't understand the relevance of the question - can you explain? If it is a foreign company that owns the 3rd bridge what difference does it make if the construction of the bridge is done without the use of tax dollars?

The entire purpose for Canada's Infrastructure Bank is to let communities like Halifax build something like a 3rd bridge that it needs - but doesn't have a large enough tax base to fund themselves because of other more important perceived political priorities.

Safety, smooth flow of people and goods, improved and meaningful public transit, a proper ring road; are the issues that matter and a 3rd bridge allows this to happen and Canada's Infrastructure Bank gets it done!

My concern, perhaps unfounded, is that if we allow foreign private concerns to own a key piece of public infrastructure then we open ourselves to the possibility of issues that wouldn't happen if it is owned by the government.

Just a few potential issues, off the top of my head:
(1) Maintenance/repair - if the company fails to properly maintain or repair the structure, what happens? Do our tax dollars go to repair something that is owned by a private concern? What if Canada's currency becomes strong again, does that mean that maintenance will be deferred because it doesn't have a strong business case?
(2) Tolls - if owned by a private concern, do they have the ability to raise tolls at their will to increase profitability?
(3) Expansion - if at some point capacity needs to be increased, such as has been done on the Macdonald, how successful can we expect to be to lobby a profit-driven concern to invest heavily to improve functionality for the local population?

I'm sure there are more if a person were to take the time to examine the situation more closely.

Is there not any concern about any of this? Are there any other examples in Canada where this has been done, and how successful have they been?

I agree that a 3rd crossing (and a Northwest Arm bridge to coincide) would be an asset, but I can't help reading your post like an advertisement for Canada's Infrastructure Bank...

[IanWatson]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I agree that a 3rd crossing (and a Northwest Arm bridge to coincide) would be an asset, but I can't help reading your post like an advertisement for Canada's Infrastructure Bank...

Especially since 3 of the poster's 6 posts on SSP end with the exact same line...

Now that both bridges have reached maximum traffic and weight limits in combination with the growing population in the Dartmouth south area, it might make sense for the Mayor of Halifax to visit some Asian investment opportunities through the Infrastructure Bank to get the 3rd bridge crossing built: