Urbanization in Canada

[Architype]

Originally Posted by Changing City

The city of Vancouver's arterial commercial streets were almost all developed before there was any zoning, and when developers could build apartments above commercial space if they chose. The single storey commercial buildings that you can find on Davie, Robson, Commercial, Main etc etc are almost all over 100 years old, and haven't redeveloped because they've remained as viable investments, and the disruption to the cash-flow, and additional expenditure hasn't been worth the owner redeveloping. Over the past 30 years that has been steadily changing, as residential rents have risen, so the extra value of the residential component makes it worth the risk. Allowing 6 storey wood frame changed the economics too (usually 5 wood on a concrete retail main floor). Sometimes structural issues with old buildings also prompt a redevelopment.

The saw-tooth character of many arterial streetcar streets is becoming more uniformly street-wall, but there are still many examples of single storey buildings. Here's a 1911 cinema on Commercial Drive, which has contemporary apartment blocks on either side, that became a furniture store and today is a pet store.



Image and history on Changing Vancouver.

Thanks, most Vancouver inner city streets date back almost to the beginning of the city, or within a couple of decades after that. There is a distinction between "downtown" streets, and commercial retail streets, the latter are the ones with the ubiquitous one storey storefronts. I do agree that the rising cost of land and rents is responsible for the more recent changes. Zoning did prohibit high-rises on some commercial streets though AFAIK. Apparently zoning did come in in the late 1920's (?) but Vancouver overall appears very rigidly planned almost from the start. All the old commercial streets were not commercial to begin with though; most downtown streets, as well as Davie, Robson, and Denman, in the West End originally had houses on them, and became more commercial afterwards, while others became more industrial. One good idea they had was to place corner stores here and there within residential neighborhoods, mostly gone now. All of those distinctive land use arrangements do seem like they were a form of planning or zoning.

[Docere]

Vancouver annexed two suburbs in 1929 to its south: South Vancouver (east of Cambie) and Point Grey (west of Cambie). It becomes fairly suburban outside the pre-1929 boundaries or maybe south of King Edward.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by zoomer

So, I’m planning a 7-10 day trip to Toronto in May, and I’m pretty excited about exploring it in a fair bit of detail based on the time I have.

Is [Eglinton] something worth checking out? It feels like a mid-speed stroad, not pedestrian friendly, lots of shops that are boarded up or in poor condition, and nothing that interesting in terms of retail or food. I think it’s fair to say I’m not a fan of grit for grits sake, and maybe during the summer the number and diversity of people makes it interesting? But isnt’t that everywhere in Toronto? Just can’t see it being high on my list of things to check out. Is it like Vancouver’s Commercial Drive but longer?

If you're an urban flaneur and you've got 10 days to kill in Toronto then, sure, why not? Eglinton West probably makes that cut. It isn't pretty - in fact, the section west of the Allen to Dufferin is one of the most haggard (urban) commercial streets in the entire city - but Ken's right that you won't find stuff along Eglinton in Vancouver if only because the immigrant groups are the ones that are underrepresented in Vancouver: Jewish, Carribean, Latin American.

My food recommendations with a timestamp in the video for reference

- Aish Tanoor (Laffas - a Jewish flatbread served like a Shawarma) at 44:30;
- Sheryl's (Jamaican) at 1:09:32
- Mexology (Mexican, obviously, specializing in Churros), on the south side, just west of Dufferin where he turned around (so imagine walking 80 meters west of 1:16:17).

St. Clair Avenue, the street he ends off on with the streetcar line, definitely is further along in the gentrification process and has more curb appeal.

[zoomer]

Excellent - thank you hipster duck, I’ll make note of those places. I was going to ask about a great shawarma place. In the past I’ve found Ottawa is great for that because of their large Lebanese population. I’m also looking for a great high rise lookout restaurant. I’ve always found the view well worth the higher cost of decent food at Harbour Centre in Vancouver.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Docere

Vancouver annexed two suburbs in 1929 to its south: South Vancouver (east of Cambie) and Point Grey (west of Cambie). It becomes fairly suburban outside the pre-1929 boundaries or maybe south of King Edward.

I guess everybody has a different idea of what suburban is, but most of the CoV doesn't seem very suburban. Still some pretty good neighbourhoods like Riley Park and Kerrisdale., and there's Victoria Drive, which is Vancouver's 2nd Chinatown, and there's other retail streets that serve their neighbourhoods well. Not pretty, but not suburban.

The density for the eastern half of Vancouver is 18 000 - 20 000 people per square mile. Still lots of apartments and condos, and most of the houses are subdivided into 2 to 3 units.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by logan5

I guess everybody has a different idea of what suburban is, but most of the CoV doesn't seem very suburban. Still some pretty good neighbourhoods like Riley Park and Kerrisdale., and there's Victoria Drive, which is Vancouver's 2nd Chinatown, and there's other retail streets that serve their neighbourhoods well. Not pretty, but not suburban.

The density for the eastern half of Vancouver is 18 000 - 20 000 people per square mile. Still lots of apartments and condos, and most of the houses are subdivided into 2 to 3 units.

I also live in Vancouver's oldest (streetcar) suburb, MP; it's very inner city now, at least by my Canadian standards. I am essentially within walking distance of three or four different retail streets, without going downtown. I think of suburbs as places that have little in the way of commercial retail streets, but more focused around malls and power centres. The other definition of suburb is that of a separate municipality outside the city boundaries. Which part of Victoria Drive is the 2nd Chinatown?

[giallo]

Originally Posted by Architype

Which part of Victoria Drive is the 2nd Chinatown?

He's probably referring to the strip of restaurants and retail between 32nd and 44th St. If we were to be more specific, maybe we could call it 'Little Hong Kong' as most of the restaurants and retail there are Cantonese.

It's a highly underrated place to eat. I love it there.

Originally Posted by hipster duck

but Ken's right that you won't find stuff along Eglinton in Vancouver if only because the immigrant groups are the ones that are underrepresented in Vancouver: Jewish, Carribean, Latin American.

This has probably been the most dramatic demographic change in Vancouver. The Latin American population in Vancouver has exploded in recent years, especially in East Vancouver - particularly in the Commercial Drive/Woodlands area, although there are many downtown as well. The second most common language I hear in Vancouver these days is Spanish.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by logan5

The density for the eastern half of Vancouver is 18 000 - 20 000 people per square mile. Still lots of apartments and condos, and most of the houses are subdivided into 2 to 3 units.

Population densities for Point Grey and south of 16th (per square mile):

West Side:

Marpole 11,118
Arbutus Ridge 10,771
South Cambie 9,376
Oakridge 8,246
West Point Grey 7,381
Kerrisdale 6,156
Dunbar-Southlands 6,103
Shaughnessy 4,844

East Side:

Kensington-Cedar Cottage 17,806
Renfrew-Collingwood 16,516
Sunset 15,271
Victoria-Fraserview 15,227
Riley Park 11,933
Killarney 11,322

Comparing Toronto and Van, SE Vancouver seems to have York/East York densities. While the West Side (sans Kitsilano/Fairview) seems comparable maybe to the Kingsway or Leaside.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by logan5

I guess everybody has a different idea of what suburban is, but most of the CoV doesn't seem very suburban. Still some pretty good neighbourhoods like Riley Park and Kerrisdale., and there's Victoria Drive, which is Vancouver's 2nd Chinatown, and there's other retail streets that serve their neighbourhoods well. Not pretty, but not suburban.

The density for the eastern half of Vancouver is 18 000 - 20 000 people per square mile. Still lots of apartments and condos, and most of the houses are subdivided into 2 to 3 units.

16th is too close in for the "suburban" description to kick in, 41st is probably more accurate. Much of the city south of 41st was built up after WWII.

[Docere]

There's a big difference in density between the more "urban core" West Side areas (Fairview and Kitsilano) in terms of densities and the SFH-dominated areas.

East Side not so much between the "inner east" (i.e. federal riding of Vancouver East or north of 16th) and the areas south of 16th in terms of densities. Around the Hastings corridor there's a lot of industrial land which lowers the densities. Meanwhile the SE gets a boost too from immigrant family households.