Winnipeg Blue Bombers

[Simplicity]

It's also the year of the back up quarterback in the West. Or was. I guess it's turning into that in the East now too.

Who even knows, though. This could have lots to do with horrendous officiating too.

[Danny D Oh]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

It's also the year of the back up quarterback in the West. Or was. I guess it's turning into that in the East now too.

Who even knows, though. This could have lots to do with horrendous officiating too.

I think the league is in serious danger of taking the support it gets for granted and not really taking a hard look at the product on the field. They put a lot of faith in Glen Johnson to fix the officiating problem, but he is more part of it IMO. All he did was add a bunch of terrible rule changes to further overload officials who are too often straddling the line between competent and incompetent. Those rules were designed to speed up the game and increase scoring. Failed on both counts.

If anything they need to work on simplifying rules on pass interference, blocking on kick returns etc. I also personally detest the convert change. Anything that makes kicking a larger part of the game is detrimental IMO. Just imagine, a great QB leads a touchdown drive to tie a playoff or Grey Cup game, then the kicker comes out and flubs the 32 yard convert, game over. How exciting is that? Let the actual football players decide the games, kicking is already a huge part of the Canadian game.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by Danny D Oh

I think the league is in serious danger of taking the support it gets for granted and not really taking a hard look at the product on the field. They put a lot of faith in Glen Johnson to fix the officiating problem, but he is more part of it IMO. All he did was add a bunch of terrible rule changes to further overload officials who are too often straddling the line between competent and incompetent. Those rules were designed to speed up the game and increase scoring. Failed on both counts.

If anything they need to work on simplifying rules on pass interference, blocking on kick returns etc. I also personally detest the convert change. Anything that makes kicking a larger part of the game is detrimental IMO. Just imagine, a great QB leads a touchdown drive to tie a playoff or Grey Cup game, then the kicker comes out and flubs the 32 yard convert, game over. How exciting is that? Let the actual football players decide the games, kicking is already a huge part of the Canadian game.

Yeah, I'd agree on all counts. The convert rule is looking more and more like a gimmick with every game. I also take issue with the number of challenges. That exchange in the 4th yesterday was, to my mind, everything wrong with the CFL: incompetent officiating, and the overly-arbitrary and subjective determination of pass interference on challenges. If it's an incomplete pass, it's an incomplete pass. There's nothing wrong with trying to get that right. But the ability to throw a challenge flag on the pass interference in an effort to end-around the completion? That's bush league stuff. All it did was give the officials an opportunity to give the Bombers a makeup call from last week and they did. But two examples of bush league officiating aren't better than one. The makeup call undermines the credibility of the officiating moreso than the original flub.

Anyway, somethings gotta give 'cause I'm losing interest and I'm the rare fan who prefers the CFL to the outrageous spectacle of the NFL.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by buzzg

It is kind of insane that for 15+ years the west has dominated the east year in and year out, and all of a sudden in one year, a year out from expansion, it completely flips.

It is not overly surprising to anyone that has followed the CFL for a few years. Most players are on one or two year contracts meaning a large portion of the talent pool is going to be available in any season. If you get management willing to put dollars on the table to bring that talent in you can turn things pretty quickly.

Add in the mix that BC has been struggling at QB the last couple of seasons without any real direction and that the Riders took a brutal injury to their only viable QB in the season opener its not hard to see why the east is dominating. The Bombers of course continue to be far off into the weeds in terms of fielding something even approaching a respectable team. With that in mind each eastern team essentially picks up six wins from the west . All this factored into things the standings are not overly surprising.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Danny D Oh

I think the league is in serious danger of taking the support it gets for granted and not really taking a hard look at the product on the field. They put a lot of faith in Glen Johnson to fix the officiating problem, but he is more part of it IMO. All he did was add a bunch of terrible rule changes to further overload officials who are too often straddling the line between competent and incompetent. Those rules were designed to speed up the game and increase scoring. Failed on both counts.

If anything they need to work on simplifying rules on pass interference, blocking on kick returns etc. I also personally detest the convert change. Anything that makes kicking a larger part of the game is detrimental IMO. Just imagine, a great QB leads a touchdown drive to tie a playoff or Grey Cup game, then the kicker comes out and flubs the 32 yard convert, game over. How exciting is that? Let the actual football players decide the games, kicking is already a huge part of the Canadian game.

^ Nailed it!

The fail point on a missed field goal should never have been implemented, actually all the single points aside from the convert should be eliminated. The import (International... the even stupider name for an American player) non-import (national) needs to go, let the best players available play, as we have seen the past couple seasons there really aren't enough good Canadian players to supply the league and the very best Canadian players don't play in the CFL!

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

^ Nailed it!

The fail point on a missed field goal should never have been implemented, actually all the single points aside from the convert should be eliminated. The import (International... the even stupider name for an American player) non-import (national) needs to go, let the best players available play, as we have seen the past couple seasons there really aren't enough good Canadian players to supply the league and the very best Canadian players don't play in the CFL!

This will be one of the rare times you'll see me supporting a supply-management policy, but the CFL needs the import/non-import rule. There's simply no way that the Canadian schools can keep pace with the massive public infrastructure of the American college programs, and the same goes at the high school level. You'll effectively kill college football in this country. There's also the issue of the CFL turning into nothing more than the NFL's minor league affiliate creating more turnover than there already is. Part of the CFL's appeal to a lot of fans is that there are players the league can market. If you start doing away with the ratio, you'll continually end up with guys who are marginal NFL guys on a turnstile between the two leagues depending upon injuries and cuts. The ratio keeps the rosters somewhat stable and gives each respective cities players they can count on long-term. Lots of those tend to be Canadian and lots of them would be out of jobs if you allowed a flood of American talent. The numbers alone would dictate that an American would have every job.

I know I wouldn't be terribly interested in watching a bunch of special-teams cuts form the NFL playing 5-7 games a year on a CFL roster waiting for the next injury down south.

[snowmobile]

I think the roster system is fine the way it is. I like seeing guys like Demski, Steele and Coombs make big plays against the "great" NCAA players that come up here. Plus it wouldn't be very interesting discussing players on the team when they get shuffled in and out every week. The Goldeyes had something like 42 guys play a game this season on a 20 man roster. Not much familiarity from game to game.

[CoryB]

The bigger problem in terms of NFL v CFL is a salary one. From a player's perspective you can take less money to be a starter in the CFL with the related risks of playing in a game and giving it your all or you can be a practice roster player (aka bench warmer) in the NFL, make more money and have more limited risks of career ending injuries. It is not surprising that any Canadian play that can get a spot is going to the NFL.

The CFL needs to change that, do something like this: say that only 50% of Canadian players salaries count against the team cap. Also set the minimum salary per starting Canadian, including the above adjustment, to be the same as a NFL practice roster minimum. The flip side of these two changes is it would then put more pressure of teams to better manage their spending on the marginal NFL players while focusing more heavily on the Canadian talent side.

[roccerfeller]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Anyway, somethings gotta give 'cause I'm losing interest and I'm the rare fan who prefers the CFL to the outrageous spectacle of the NFL.

Exactly how I feel


That said, we still aren't quite yet out of the playoff race haha

[Danny D Oh]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The bigger problem in terms of NFL v CFL is a salary one. From a player's perspective you can take less money to be a starter in the CFL with the related risks of playing in a game and giving it your all or you can be a practice roster player (aka bench warmer) in the NFL, make more money and have more limited risks of career ending injuries. It is not surprising that any Canadian play that can get a spot is going to the NFL.

The CFL isn't really competing with the NFL for players. Any American player is going to exhaust all options with the NFL before they even consider coming north. There's the odd guy who has no interest at all from the NFL coming out of school, but that's rare for guys who end up in the CFL.

The bigger problem for competitiveness is the lack of control teams have over their assets, in particular the players they draft in the Canadian College Draft. One contract and the guy is gone with no compensation, see Muamba.

Originally Posted by rrskylar

^ Nailed it!

The fail point on a missed field goal should never have been implemented, actually all the single points aside from the convert should be eliminated. The import (International... the even stupider name for an American player) non-import (national) needs to go, let the best players available play, as we have seen the past couple seasons there really aren't enough good Canadian players to supply the league and the very best Canadian players don't play in the CFL!

The single point wasn't implemented, it's been there since the CFL was the Canadian Rugby Union. It's not a fail point, it's a punishment for the receiving team deciding not to return the ball and a point for putting the ball out of touch on a kick.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Danny D Oh

The CFL isn't really competing with the NFL for players. Any American player is going to exhaust all options with the NFL before they even consider coming north. There's the odd guy who has no interest at all from the NFL coming out of school, but that's rare for guys who end up in the CFL.

The bigger problem for competitiveness is the lack of control teams have over their assets, in particular the players they draft in the Canadian College Draft. One contract and the guy is gone with no compensation, see Muamba.




The single point wasn't implemented, it's been there since the CFL was the Canadian Rugby Union. It's not a fail point, it's a punishment for the receiving team deciding not to return the ball and a point for putting the ball out of touch on a kick.

Yes to both these points. The CFL needs to follow suit with NHL and other leagues and make entry contracts a standard 3 years. Enough time to build a team and convince high draft picks (who are obviously on not good teams) to stick around as the team grows.

Also I love the single point. The ENTIRE point of the game of football is to get the ball into the end zone. Kicking it there is obviously not worth as much as physically taking it there, but you still did it. The defending team can choose/try to let you have the point or if they have a good returner, try and get it out and to a good spot.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Yes to both these points. The CFL needs to follow suit with NHL and other leagues and make entry contracts a standard 3 years. Enough time to build a team and convince high draft picks (who are obviously on not good teams) to stick around as the team grows.

Also I love the single point. The ENTIRE point of the game of football is to get the ball into the end zone. Kicking it there is obviously not worth as much as physically taking it there, but you still did it. The defending team can choose/try to let you have the point or if they have a good returner, try and get it out and to a good spot.

So it's a tie game with 1 second to go and you attempt to kick a field goal but you miss and the ball goes through the end zone, the kicking team gets a single point anyways for failing to make the field goal but wins the game by a point. Makes sense now, too bad the NFL didn't adopt such an exciting way to win or lose a game!

[snowmobile]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

So it's a tie game with 1 second to go and you attempt to kick a field goal but you miss and the ball goes through the end zone, the kicking team gets a single point anyways for failing to make the field goal but wins the game by a point. Makes sense now, too bad the NFL didn't adopt such an exciting way to win or lose a game!

Well then the defending team should have stopped them from marching down the field and they better get ready to block the kick

[esquire]

Originally Posted by snowmobile

Well then the defending team should have stopped them from marching down the field and they better get ready to block the kick

Agreed. I don't get what the big gripe is with the single point. A reward for getting the ball into the end zone, no more, no less.

[rypinion]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

So it's a tie game with 1 second to go and you attempt to kick a field goal but you miss and the ball goes through the end zone, the kicking team gets a single point anyways for failing to make the field goal but wins the game by a point. Makes sense now, too bad the NFL didn't adopt such an exciting way to win or lose a game!

Except the only reason they are trying the field goal is to make absolutely sure there's no possibility for return/kick back. Their actual goal is to for sure get the point.

With your way of thinking a field goal is "loser points" because you only get it if you give up on trying for a touchdown.

Chalk me up as another pro-single point CFL fan.

[esquire]

Looking ahead to next season, I wonder if the Bombers shouldn't just axe O'Shea and bring in someone with a proven track record like Mike Benevides? Let's face it, things probably won't get a whole lot better next year under O'Shea, and waiting until September to fire him just means yet another season flushed down the toilet. I think the fans are growing impatient too... selling season tickets with O'Shea at the helm could prove to be a challenge.

I'd be a little more patient with Walters given the abysmal mess that he inherited from Joe Mack. He deserves at least one more season to right the ship.

[Riverman]

Don't thing there is a budget to sack and re-hire anyone else. They are still paying Lapolice AFAIK.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by esquire

Looking ahead to next season, I wonder if the Bombers shouldn't just axe O'Shea and bring in someone with a proven track record like Mike Benevides? (...)

I'd be a little more patient with Walters given the abysmal mess that he inherited from Joe Mack. He deserves at least one more season to right the ship.

The Bomber structure is that offensive coordinator Marcel Bellefeuille reports to O'Shea who in turns reports to Walters. Walters reports to Miller and Miller to the board.

The root of the current problem is Bellefeuille and he absolutely needs to go. As a head coach O'Shea should be heading into the year end meetings to pitch a plan to go in a different direction. If O'Shea is not willing to push for that move the change needs to move higher up the hierarchy to someone that will make the moves that need to happen. My feeling in the Miller is smart enough to see the sand shifting and take action before it shallows his job with it.

That said, if O'Shea gets rid of Bellefeuille I think he deserves another season. The performance on the field is clearly a lack of talent, which Walters is working to address, and some really bad offensive play calling.

Edit: Pretty sure all the previous staff which are no longer with the team are off the payroll now.

[esquire]

^ Yeah, I didn't think Lapo was still on the payroll. It's been a few years.

I would agree, the Bombers could legitimately give O'Shea another season if they switch up the OC. Replacing Gary Etcheverry certainly seemed to have an impact on the defence, as many pundits predicted it would... maybe time for the offence to get the same treatment.

[CoryB]

If you listen to fans there are three general themes:

1 - I want change/the team needs to do better without any specific issue identified (fire O'Shea)
2 - The offense sucks (fire Bellefeuille)
3 - The team lacks talent (fire Walters)

Where I sit the offense has been horrible under Bellefuille. Occasionally a few gems shine through but it needs more consistency. We are starting to get the talent we need so I would be willing to give Walters another season to prove himself. That said, if Bellefuille is replaced and issues persist it would really start to shine the light O'Shea's direction as he would at that point have replaced the three coordinators.

Time will tell what the Bombers will do but not making changes to the coaching staff this off season would be a big mistake.