Phoenix Development News (3)

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

Welp. I tried to say this when the renderings for Central Station from Medistar first came out and I stated how bland it was. Everyone jumped on me. Now ya know how I feel about this project. This should have been something better and more iconic. It should have been taller and more than another square box. This is why Phoenix will never have an iconic skyline as long as developers keep playing it safe.

I dont know why you guys would expect something Iconic.

15 years ago the idea of major development downtown from anyone was unimaginable and you expect to have long term investment so soon?

You want to skip all the steps, its not going to happen like that.

[PHX-DUDE-MAN]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

Welp. I tried to say this when the renderings for Central Station from Medistar first came out and I stated how bland it was. Everyone jumped on me. Now ya know how I feel about this project. This should have been something better and more iconic. It should have been taller and more than another square box. This is why Phoenix will never have an iconic skyline as long as developers keep playing it safe.

I agree with you, very bland. They should have at least incorporated some sort of spire or crown element on top of the high rise of the new central station tower to add some height - something like the Frost Bank Tower building in Austin, TX.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by Obadno

I dont know why you guys would expect something Iconic.

15 years ago the idea of major development downtown from anyone was unimaginable and you expect to have long term investment so soon?

You want to skip all the steps, its not going to happen like that.

And yet, 15 years ago, there were proposals of 500'+ towers. Now that downtown IS actually popular and filling up, we are getting pretty basic developments (with Link being the exception if they build all 3 towers). Don't get me wrong. The developments we are getting are adding a lot of infill which Downtown also needs. But Central Station should have been a better proposal. This is a spot that basic really doesn't quite cut it. If the Medistar proposal was a block or so over on some vacant land off 2nd Ave, it would have been fine. I just think our "transit center" in the center of what is supposed to be a prime Downtown location should have a little more pizzazz.

[biggus diggus]

15 years ago you saw "proposals" for 500' buildings that were never built. Now you see 300' buildings popping up left and right. Sounds like you prefer what you saw 15 years ago.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

15 years ago you saw "proposals" for 500' buildings that were never built. Now you see 300' buildings popping up left and right. Sounds like you prefer what you saw 15 years ago.

I did not say that. Not even close. There were 500' proposals that would never have filled 15 years ago and yet they proposed them. Now we are getting 300' proposals when a 500' tower could actually get filled. That's the point I was trying to make.

Edit: I thought about this question while on my lunch walk, so wanted to revisit my post. There were some really good designs in some of those proposals before the recession hit. So, in answer to "if I prefer what I saw 15 years ago". As long as they are getting filled up as quickly as with everything else getting built currently, then yes...I would like to see some of those proposals from 15 years ago. A few of those proposals looked really good, so I see no reason why not. Let's take Central Station for instance. It's one 300' tower and one 200' tower. Why couldn't this have been phased with 1 tower initially at around 500' and then the second tower built later when the need arises? The answer is (as combusean already mentioned), they are just building to sell. I would have liked the City of Phoenix to step up the Central Station requirements a little more. It's not an empty parking lot they are building on.

[fawd]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again!!

I'll continue to take five 150' small towers over a single 500' ANYDAY!!


Much more impactful from a street level & overall sense of density imo

[ASUSunDevil]

^ totally agree, Fawd. Still way too many empty lots to be critiquing a great looking $231m mixed-use project.

Sticking to my prediction - DTPHX will get its new tallest once there's no more room to build Class A office on Tempe Town Lake ~ 10 years.

[soled]

Originally Posted by fawd

I've said it before, and I'll say it again!!

I'll continue to take five 150' small towers over a single 500' ANYDAY!!


Much more impactful from a street level & overall sense of density imo

Yes!

Maybe this makes me an outcast here, but I pretty much follow this board because I've always wanted Phoenix to have an active, real downtown, rather than concerning myself with hi-rises, signature or otherwise. #bootsontheground

[combusean]

I'm with you too about street-level "boots on the ground" density but if there was a lot to support a new tallest or a signature project, this would be it. If Medistar proposed this without city involvement, I'd be fine with it.

The RFP process should have got better rather than a building they'll sell at the height of the next cycle. I doubt the RFP awarded points for visionary projects, so it's just a lack of vision on CED's part and the developer wouldn't have had better chances if they went that route.

[biggus diggus]

Originally Posted by soled

Yes!

Maybe this makes me an outcast here, but I pretty much follow this board because I've always wanted Phoenix to have an active, real downtown, rather than concerning myself with hi-rises, signature or otherwise. #bootsontheground

I agree.

[fawd]

Originally Posted by combusean

I'm with you too about street-level "boots on the ground" density but if there was a lot to support a new tallest or a signature project, this would be it.

But there just isn't any REAL demand to support a new 'tallest tower'.. oh, and remember govt GPLET subsidies are under fire too - making it even more difficult to attract the height demand many of us are looking for.

One decade at a time, folks!

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by fawd

But there just isn't any REAL demand to support a new 'tallest tower'.. oh, and remember govt GPLET subsidies are under fire too - making it even more difficult to attract the height demand many of us are looking for.

One decade at a time, folks!

Im hoping the Opportunity Zone's will fill that hole in the market

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by soled

Yes!

Maybe this makes me an outcast here, but I pretty much follow this board because I've always wanted Phoenix to have an active, real downtown, rather than concerning myself with hi-rises, signature or otherwise. #bootsontheground

Absolutely, Id rather have a downtown of 5 story apartment blocks and ground level retail.

Skylines are just nice for pictures but they say nothing of quality

[vandypandybear]

Originally Posted by ASUSunDevil

^ totally agree, Fawd. Still way too many empty lots to be critiquing a great looking $231m mixed-use project.

Sticking to my prediction - DTPHX will get its new tallest once there's no more room to build Class A office on Tempe Town Lake ~ 10 years.

Everyone seems to forget that a lot of our "tallest towers" have traded recently at values significantly lower than their purchase prices in the mid 2000s. Who would take the risk on a new build when these are still being repositioned and filled?

[CrestedSaguaro]

Oh for Pete's sake everyone...I never said we need to build a new tallest. How did this even get to another new tallest conversation when nothing was ever mentioned about building a new tallest? The point I was making was we need a better looking development than this for Central Station. I was just throwing out a number there in regards to height. It could be 400' for all I care. What I care about is the design. This is not a great looking design. It looks no better than any other basic high-rise being built across the country right now. My point was Central Station should have been a better development for such a prime space in Downtown Phoenix...something that should pop out as different. Table the new tallest conversation. That's not what I was saying.

[biggus diggus]

And all we are saying is if there was more demand to build something you'd have seen taller or better. Developers can still get away with mailing it in, why spend more money than needed!

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

And all we are saying is if there was more demand to build something you'd have seen taller or better. Developers can still get away with mailing it in, why spend more money than needed!

The costs to build a single taller tower would not have exceeded the cost of the current Medistar design. As I have been trying to point out...and the point you keep missing...it was designed to sell, not designed to be something unique for Downtown Phoenix. I have already stated this would be OK for any empty parking lot in Downtown. Central Station, however, deserves better. This is my opinion. We have plenty of development going on right now and I'm not desperate to see Central Station developed with a sub-par design. I would rather wait a few more years until the next cycle and see something stellar go there.

[biggus diggus]

The point of developing is to make money, not impress you.

[DesertRay]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

The point of developing is to make money, not impress you.

Count me in as someone who wanted to see something more iconic there. I say that as a Phoenician and an Arizonan (and not as a developer...not that there's anything wrong with that).

[biggus diggus]

I agree it would be nice but I think we all can understand reality is that the market here just isn't right for "iconic".