Amtrak proposal to create new rail passenger connections for major cities

[iheartthed]

Amtrak released a new map yesterday to coincide with Biden's infrastructure program.


Source: https://www.businessinsider.com/map-...re-plan-2021-4

New routes between major cities:

• Los Angeles-Riverside-Las Vegas
• Los Angeles-Riverside-Indio-Phoenix
• Dallas-College Station-Houston
• Cleveland-Columbus-Cincinnati
• Detroit-Toronto-Toledo
• Nashville-Chattanooga-Atlanta
• Louisville-Indianapolis

The most interesting ones to me are L.A. to Vegas and Detroit to Toronto. Detroit to Toronto would almost certainly mean that rail service is returning to Michigan Central Station.

[Obadno]

Just like in 2009?

Yawn, Trains do not make sense in 90% of the USA no matter how much I like them aesthetically.

planes are cheaper and faster outside of a few regions.

[10023]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Just like in 2009?

Yawn, Trains do not make sense in 90% of the USA no matter how much I like them aesthetically.

planes are cheaper and faster outside of a few regions.

Bingo.

That map should have 4 or 5 fast regional networks, and air travel should be used between regions.

Romantic sightseeing trains, like the California Zephyr, should be spun off into a separate for-profit business (like the Orient Express) with luxury rolling stock and pricing to match the experience. But the journey is the point in that case, not getting from A to B.

Amtrak loses too much money on unviable routes to ever invest properly in the ones that make sense.

[the urban politician]

^ Agreed. This is a pipe dream

[Randomguy34]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

The most interesting ones to me are L.A. to Vegas and Detroit to Toronto. Detroit to Toronto would almost certainly mean that rail service is returning to Michigan Central Station.

The LA to Las Vegas route looks to be the Brightline West plan, which they hope to start construction in a couple of months. It's likely Amtrak will just share the ROW with Brightline.

I hope they eventually use Michigan Central, but they'll likely do a turnback from New Center station to get to Toronto.

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ Agreed. This is a pipe dream

Biden announced yesterday $80 billion for intercity rail, and Amtrak envisions only needing $25 billion for their 2035 rail proposal. That still leaves $55 billion for a lot of other plans, such as true high speed rail along certain corridors

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Randomguy34

I hope they eventually use Michigan Central, but they'll likely do a turnback from New Center station to get to Toronto.

How would that work?

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by Randomguy34

The LA to Las Vegas route looks to be the Brightline West plan, which they hope to start construction in a couple of months. It's likely Amtrak will just share the ROW with Brightline.

I hope they eventually use Michigan Central, but they'll likely do a turnback from New Center station to get to Toronto.



Biden announced yesterday $80 billion for intercity rail, and Amtrak envisions only needing $25 billion for their 2035 rail proposal. That still leaves $55 billion for a lot of other plans, such as true high speed rail along certain corridors

Oh Biden is going to (attempt) to throw money at it??? Oh well then everything is solved. Maglevs will rain from the sky! and we will all take green 0 emission trains to Mars for work in the vegan-egg farm!

[Randomguy34]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

How would that work?

Trains from Chicago would arrive at New Center station. Then they would go back west until Grand Blvd & Hubbard St, where there is a ROW that turns and goes east past Michigan Central and into the Railway Tunnel to Windsor. It's convoluted no doubt, but necessary until Michigan Central is converted back into a railway station

Originally Posted by Obadno

Oh Biden is going to (attempt) to throw money at it??? Oh well then everything is solved. Maglevs will rain from the sky! and we will all take green 0 emission trains to Mars for work in the vegan-egg farm!

Talk about hyperbole

[Centropolis]

chicago hub makes sense to concentrate on in the middle of the country. stl, detroit, indy - these are the cities that make sense to tie to chicago with faster trains. severe inbound traffic, o’hare, all these things make a faster train worth it. minneapolis if they can get something through wisconsin...

they are still messing with the control systems as far as i know between stl-chi. the upgraded tracks, smoothed turns, and concrete ties are done.

i have no clue where the passenger car fiasco sits - i think they are still pulling the old carriages with the new locomotives which is depressing.

110 mph is still too slow for all the effort.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

i have no clue where the passenger car fiasco sits - i think they are still pulling the old carriages with the new locomotives which is depressing.

The new Venture coaches are stacking up at the Chicago yard and at Brighton Park. They had a few months of testing the coaches on each line and training the staff, they should enter service pretty soon on the Illinois and Michigan services first, then MO River Runner, and the Hiawatha after that.

[The North One]

Amtrak is pretty much useless as it is. We need high speed rail.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by The North One

Amtrak is pretty much useless as it is. We need high speed rail.

the obama plan ended up effectively making amtrak worse as i use it since they have spent a decade piddling around in illinois, using busses around construction. its so bad that i stopped using it even before they revealed that they fucked up the passenger car build. it really has been a disaster.

[Handro]

Originally Posted by The North One

Amtrak is pretty much useless as it is. We need high speed rail.

Pretty much agree with this. I'm all for increasing capabilities for non-car travel but investing more in AMTRAK seems like a dead end unless there are some big changes coming that I don't understand. IMO the only benefit AMTRAK offers is the novelty of taking a train, and that's not really much of a benefit at all.

I am SO jealous of those other nations that can travel Chicago-Cincinnati distances in just a couple of hours without the cost/headaches of air travel. It's really absurd the the US is lightyears behind in this regard.

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

i imagine it means greater frequency and/or speed.

Ok so that could be something!

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by Handro

Pretty much agree with this. I'm all for increasing capabilities for non-car travel but investing more in AMTRAK seems like a dead end unless there are some big changes coming that I don't understand. IMO the only benefit AMTRAK offers is the novelty of taking a train, and that's not really much of a benefit at all.

I am SO jealous of those other nations that can travel Chicago-Cincinnati distances in just a couple of hours without the cost/headaches of air travel. It's really absurd the the US is lightyears behind in this regard.



Ok so that could be something!

pre-covid the Hiawatha was always busy when I took it (every month or two to visit my in-laws). I hate taking the bus to Madison, the train would be much better. I also have collaborators at MSU and WUSTL and flying such a short distance seems ridiculous, and renting a car + driving is no fun either.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Handro

Pretty much agree with this. I'm all for increasing capabilities for non-car travel but investing more in AMTRAK seems like a dead end unless there are some big changes coming that I don't understand. IMO the only benefit AMTRAK offers is the novelty of taking a train, and that's not really much of a benefit at all.

I don't see how a national (or multi-region) HSR project materializes without Amtrak. The options for creating one are basically a national entity (Amtrak) or delegating it to states like the interstate highway system. If they did delegate it locally, it still would require the feds to organize the infrastructure build out, especially on rail lines that cross multiple state lines.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by Handro

Pretty much agree with this. I'm all for increasing capabilities for non-car travel but investing more in AMTRAK seems like a dead end unless there are some big changes coming that I don't understand. IMO the only benefit AMTRAK offers is the novelty of taking a train, and that's not really much of a benefit at all.

I am SO jealous of those other nations that can travel Chicago-Cincinnati distances in just a couple of hours without the cost/headaches of air travel. It's really absurd the the US is lightyears behind in this regard.

Yep, I don't see the point of any of this really, these are very minor improvements that'll take 15 years and that's if most of it actually happens. This country needs to get serious about passenger rail with HSR, otherwise it's all a joke and will never have a chance to compete with our highway system.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Handro

I am SO jealous of those other nations that can travel Chicago-Cincinnati distances in just a couple of hours without the cost/headaches of air travel. It's really absurd the the US is lightyears behind in this regard!

I’m not jealous. I’m glad we’re not Europe. Chicago to Cincy trains would be a complete waste of resources.

You can drive. And now, with electric cars on the horizon and an electric charging network planned, it will be way more eco-friendly.

Trains should only be regional (ie metropolitan, like Chicago’s Metra), otherwise cars and planes should be enough.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

I’m not jealous. I’m glad we’re not Europe. Chicago to Cincy trains would be a complete waste of resources.

You can drive. And now, with electric cars on the horizon and an electric charging network planned, it will be way more eco-friendly.

Trains should only be regional (ie metropolitan, like Chicago’s Metra), otherwise cars and planes should be enough.

Driving sucks. First I have to rent a car. Then I have to pay attention to the road the whole time. Then, you have to be able to drive... some people (like my wife) are terrified of driving (with good reason, she's an awful driver). She effectively cannot drive herself any reasonable distance.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

Driving sucks. First I have to rent a car. Then I have to pay attention to the road the whole time. Then, you have to be able to drive... some people (like my wife) are terrified of driving (with good reason, she's an awful driver). She effectively cannot drive herself any reasonable distance.

So a train line should be built to accommodate you? Do you realize just how minuscule of a minority people like you are amongst Americans?

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Nobody here is saying they hate trains, I think a national rail network would be awesome because trains are aesthetically cool and are associated with good cities.

Im also not a child and realize its a ridiculous idea.

right and this is not adding a national network beyond what exists already. It's adding a bunch of regional train.