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  #41  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2006, 3:13 PM
ATLssMania ATLssMania is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atlantaguy
Thanks for posting this, but have you seen the renderings for Atlantis? One of the most hideous designs you can imagine, IMO.

Can you post the renderings? Where did you see them?
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  #42  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2006, 3:31 PM
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They were in the ABC, but have yet to come online anywhere.
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  #43  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2006, 3:35 PM
ATLssMania ATLssMania is offline
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I did a Google search for "Atlanta Downtown Rendering" and came up with a recent newsletter on www.architects.org. They have a rendering of a new building that Cube3studio is working on for Downtown Atlanta on page 25 of the newsletter in the top left corner.

http://www.architects.org/emplibrary...20rendering%22
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  #44  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2006, 7:45 PM
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possible skyscrapers moratorium in Atlanta

I just read a new Atlanta Business Chronicle while
I was shopping in a supermarket.
I didnt purchase the journal so I can't be specific now, but it said that some congesswoman from Georgia
will introduce a bill in September that will stop all new skyscraper proposals from Buckhead to Downtown. The bill will be introduced Sep 5.

She said she didn't want Atlanta to become
like Manhattan!!! that the views must be preferred and similar things.

Last edited by yangtze; Sep 3, 2006 at 1:02 AM.
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  #45  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2006, 7:50 PM
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Found this in the AJC online last night. Haven't seen it posted anywhere. Wanted to make sure that ATL boosters, and others, saw it. Enjoy!

Hubs of activity at MARTA stations
Lively urban sites to ring train stations

By PAUL DONSKY
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Published on: 09/02/06

Step off a MARTA train at the East Lake station and there's not much to see or do.

The station, five miles east of downtown Atlanta, is surrounded by a sea of asphalt. Walkways funnel riders to one of two sprawling parking lots.


Paul Donsky/AJC
(ENLARGE)
A cluster of high-rise office buildings and hotels are going up on private property next to the Civic Center MARTA station on the northern edge of downtown.


Ben Gray/AJC
(ENLARGE)
Office buildings, apartments, shops and restaurants surround the Lindbergh MARTA station. The development, and the riders and shoppers it has attracted, serve as an example for the projects planned for the areas around several other MARTA stations.

In contrast, the Lindbergh station in Buckhead sits amid a mini-city, with three office towers, an apartment complex, shops, restaurants and, opening next week, an upscale nightclub.

For now, East Lake is the more typical station. But plans are in the works to transform East Lake and a number of similarly sleepy stations into vibrant centers.

Not only does the development fulfill a longtime promise to invigorate areas near the stations and bring more riders, but it's good for MARTA's balance sheet: Nearby businesses generates sales tax, a main source of the agency's revenue, and much activity is on MARTA-owned land.

MARTA parking lots at the Avondale, Chamblee and Lakewood-Fort McPherson stations are set to be replaced by apartments, condos and retail. A cluster of high-rise office buildings and hotels are rising on private property next to the Civic Center station on the north end of downtown.

In the coming months, MARTA plans to sell land for projects at the Brookhaven, East Lake, Kensington and North Springs stations.

"I'd like to see significant development around all of our stations," said Darryl Connelly, MARTA's director of transit-oriented development. "We're trying to build more developments to get more people to live, work and play around transit."

Last year, the agency's leases and sales brought in $3.1 million — a figure expected to more than double by 2011.

By now, most of MARTA's 38 stations were supposed to have matured into pedestrian-friendly hubs of activity, with dense pockets of housing, offices and retail. Nearly three decades after the rail system opened, however, only a handful of stations, mostly downtown and in Midtown, even come close to providing a big-city transit experience.

MARTA has been criticized for taking so long to develop its stations. That wasn't the plan, said Leon Eplan, a transportation consultant who helped design the rail system.

High-rise housing was envisioned at outlying stations, with office towers and other businesses at close-in stations, he said. The city zoning was even changed to accommodate the plan, he said.

"People would live in dense situations around a station and use MARTA to get to their jobs," Eplan said. "So we'd be able to eliminate the car — at least, one car" — from many households.

The problem, as Eplan sees it: MARTA's rail system came on line in the late 1970s, a time when the city was losing population to the suburbs. Jobs and businesses followed.

But urban living is hot again. Dilapidated areas have been reclaimed for high-end shops and housing. The city skyline is being redrawn with new condo towers.

And MARTA stations, long regarded as eyesores, are now being seen as opportunities. The change amazes Eplan.

"I thought it would never happen," he said. "But now, as we're coming back to the city, those parking lots are much more valuable. ... The areas around stations are going to be the hottest areas."

The rail station developments are being fueled by Atlanta residents who crave a more urban lifestyle.

Vincent Hughes Jr. and his fiancée have lived in a townhouse next to the Chamblee rail station since 2005. The MARTA tracks are visible from their front stoop.

"We have both lived in cities that are not car-based — she in Boston and me in Montreal — and we wanted to live near a transit station to have that option, to not have to take our car all the time," Hughes said.

By using mass transit, Hughes said, he feels a part of the fabric of the city.

"If you're always getting in your car, you're never talking to anyone," he said.

Hughes occasionally takes the train to meet his wife after work for dinner in Midtown, but he no longer takes MARTA to his job in the Perimeter Center area. The trip took 45 minutes by train, including a change at the Lindbergh station, compared with 20 minutes by car.

Even MARTA's Lindbergh City Center is taking off, seven years after the transit system plowed $120 million into turning vacant lots into the system's signature transit-oriented development project.

BellSouth built two office buildings on the site, but the rest of the 47-acre development at the Lindbergh station in Buckhead languished.

Now, the area bustles with construction workers building retail space and putting the finishing touches on a 362-unit apartment complex. Lunchtime crowds pack Chili's, Longhorn Steakhouse and Taco Mac restaurants.

To come: 350 condos, a deli, a hamburger joint, a hair salon and Lotus Lounge, a nightclub. Last week, plans were finalized to bring a vocational school, High Tech Institute, to the development in a new three-story building, with retail on the ground floor.

"With the intense desire to live intown and redevelop infill areas, this area finally got on the radar screen," said Trent Germano, executive vice president with Carter & Associates, the Lindbergh City Center's master developer.

MARTA has been widely criticized for investing so heavily in Lindbergh that it could take decades just to break even. The project will generate more than $1.1 million in lease income this year.

Richard McCrillis, MARTA's interim general manager, stressed that the transit system no longer invests in station development, preferring instead to lease or sell property. But he noted that the office towers at Lindbergh have attracted new riders, and the restaurants and stores will generate sales tax revenue.

"There's a good return on it," he said, describing Lindbergh as a catalyst "for all these other transit-oriented developments."
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  #46  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2006, 1:14 PM
Hybrid0NE Hybrid0NE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yangtze
I just read a new Atlanta Business Chronicle while
I was shopping in a supermarket.
I didnt purchase the journal so I can't be specific now, but it said that some congesswoman from Georgia
will introduce a bill in September that will stop all new skyscraper proposals from Buckhead to Downtown. The bill will be introduced Sep 5.

She said she didn't want Atlanta to become
like Manhattan!!! that the views must be preferred and similar things.
Someone tell that congresswoman Savannah's looking for new residents.
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  #47  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2006, 1:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hybrid0NE
Someone tell that congresswoman Savannah's looking for new residents.
It's not a Congresswoman, it's Atlanta City Councilmember Mary Norwood.
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How about this for the city's slogan:

"Atlanta - it's getting there."
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  #48  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2006, 2:46 PM
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What is the chance that this bill will pass? I am moving out if that happens.
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  #49  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2006, 3:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yangtze
What is the chance that this bill will pass? I am moving out if that happens.
If you live in the City limits you should write the Councilperson. Information is about.

I deal with City Council daily. The single-most important factor in determining whether ordinances pass is public comment.
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How about this for the city's slogan:

"Atlanta - it's getting there."
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  #50  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2006, 3:48 PM
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Terminus has released floor plans online for the condo phase 1 of the project. I would assume they're planning on breaking ground within a few months now.

http://www.terminus-atlanta.com/
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  #51  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2006, 5:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terminus
If you live in the City limits you should write the Councilperson. Information is about.

I deal with City Council daily. The single-most important factor in determining whether ordinances pass is public comment.
I will do it. thanks.
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  #52  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2006, 7:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sketching
Could you imagine how this ordinance would put a screeching halt on development that hasn't broken ground yet? Talking about stalling the future of our city.

The idea is bad on so many levels. What would they call it, " The Sunlight Ordinance?"

I wonder how many developers choked on their coffee this morning when they picked up this morning's ABC.

Nip this in the bud folks, SF has a sunlight abatement regulation, including limits on the length of time a new building can throw a shadow on public spaces, that have significantly impacted new construction in this city.
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  #53  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2006, 1:27 PM
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This thinking is flawed in so many ways...

Skyscrapers vs. Skyline

The Atlanta City Council member who won a temporary ban on infill housing earlier this year is taking her case for preservation to a higher level.

Mary Norwood said she wants to make sure the dozens of new high-rises planned from downtown to Buckhead don't block the views for tenants of existing condominium and office towers.

She intends to introduce an ordinance as early as Sept. 5 that would empower Atlanta planning officials to do whatever they deem necessary to ensure those views aren't obstructed. That could mean reducing the height of new skyscrapers, requiring them to be set at irregular angles or specifying where they can be built, she said.

"I see the densification happening so fast, with no thought whatsoever, and I wanted to do something about it," Norwood said, noting a nine-tower condo project planned in Buckhead by The Related Group of Miami. "I don't want us to become Manhattan, where the only thing you can see from the 50th floor is another building."

But several developers say Atlanta's skyline, though rising rapidly, is a long way from becoming another New York. They condemned Norwood's move as an attempt to override free market forces.

"It's a bit too much social engineering," said David Allman, chairman of Regent Partners LLC, which is building a 48-story mixed-use tower in Buckhead that will block at least one office building. "It would artificially benefit existing product over new product. The consequences would be very negative."

Norwood is a longtime preservationist and one of three council members who represent the entire city, not just a portion of it. In January, she got the council and Mayor Shirley Franklin to approve an infill housing moratorium in five upscale intown neighborhoods that touched off a firestorm among residential developers. Franklin later appointed a task force to study revising Atlanta's entire zoning code; its recommendations are due out this fall.

Norwood is writing the legislation with the aid of two local architects who helped her draft the infill ban.

She said she hasn't spoken with the development community yet, although she intends to.

"Whoever has a piece of property that hasn't built their 40-story tower is going to be hysterical," she acknowledged.

Norwood said she is patterning the ordinance after "view corridor" regulations in cities from Seattle to Austin, Texas, to Washington, D.C. However, those laws -- which evolved from city rejuvenation efforts in Europe -- are typically designed to protect views of monuments, waterfronts, mountains, etc., from public spaces such as streets and parks, not from inside commercial or residential buildings.

Atlanta does not have Seattle's Space Needle, Puget Sound or the Cascade Mountains, though Piedmont Park might fall into the landmark category.

But Norwood's proposal could help the city preserve its prized skyline vistas and avoid the stuffy air and lack of sunlight in urban cores as tightly packed as New York's, said Lance Jay Brown, past chairman of the American Institute of Architects' regional and urban design committee and an adviser on the World Trade Center memorial.

"What this comes down to is rational planning," Brown said. "This discussion is not premature. It's definitely worth consideration."

The Atlanta City Council member who won a temporary ban on infill housing earlier this year is taking her case for preservation to a higher level.

Mary Norwood said she wants to make sure the dozens of new high-rises planned from downtown to Buckhead don't block the views for tenants of existing condominium and office towers.

She intends to introduce an ordinance as early as Sept. 5 that would empower Atlanta planning officials to do whatever they deem necessary to ensure those views aren't obstructed. That could mean reducing the height of new skyscrapers, requiring them to be set at irregular angles or specifying where they can be built, she said.

"I see the densification happening so fast, with no thought whatsoever, and I wanted to do something about it," Norwood said, noting a nine-tower condo project planned in Buckhead by The Related Group of Miami. "I don't want us to become Manhattan, where the only thing you can see from the 50th floor is another building."

But several developers say Atlanta's skyline, though rising rapidly, is a long way from becoming another New York. They condemned Norwood's move as an attempt to override free market forces.

"It's a bit too much social engineering," said David Allman, chairman of Regent Partners LLC, which is building a 48-story mixed-use tower in Buckhead that will block at least one office building. "It would artificially benefit existing product over new product. The consequences would be very negative."

Norwood is a longtime preservationist and one of three council members who represent the entire city, not just a portion of it. In January, she got the council and Mayor Shirley Franklin to approve an infill housing moratorium in five upscale intown neighborhoods that touched off a firestorm among residential developers. Franklin later appointed a task force to study revising Atlanta's entire zoning code; its recommendations are due out this fall.

Norwood is writing the legislation with the aid of two local architects who helped her draft the infill ban.

She said she hasn't spoken with the development community yet, although she intends to.

"Whoever has a piece of property that hasn't built their 40-story tower is going to be hysterical," she acknowledged.

Norwood said she is patterning the ordinance after "view corridor" regulations in cities from Seattle to Austin, Texas, to Washington, D.C. However, those laws -- which evolved from city rejuvenation efforts in Europe -- are typically designed to protect views of monuments, waterfronts, mountains, etc., from public spaces such as streets and parks, not from inside commercial or residential buildings.

Atlanta does not have Seattle's Space Needle, Puget Sound or the Cascade Mountains, though Piedmont Park might fall into the landmark category.

But Norwood's proposal could help the city preserve its prized skyline vistas and avoid the stuffy air and lack of sunlight in urban cores as tightly packed as New York's, said Lance Jay Brown, past chairman of the American Institute of Architects' regional and urban design committee and an adviser on the World Trade Center memorial.

"What this comes down to is rational planning," Brown said. "This discussion is not premature. It's definitely worth consideration.
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How about this for the city's slogan:

"Atlanta - it's getting there."

Last edited by Terminus; Sep 5, 2006 at 5:25 PM.
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  #54  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2006, 1:50 PM
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I am erasing my prior post, because I dont want to be accused for libel.

Her arguments can easily be contradicted in many ways. We should all write letters to her and to the city.

Last edited by yangtze; Sep 4, 2006 at 6:41 PM.
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  #55  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2006, 5:01 PM
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Maybe seeing a huge building right next door isn't the best view in the world, but it sure as hell beats looking down at an abandoned surface parking lot, which is all that will ever sit on undeveloped land if this legislation passes.

Seriously, if the council passes this I'm moving.
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  #56  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2006, 8:39 PM
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out here in the suburbs, we love our gorgeous views of the tops of trees and occasionally the blue sky behind the clouds. sometimes we can also see parking lots and even stone mountain. nothing like the good old views that i've grown to appreciate here in GA
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  #57  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2006, 1:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gttx
Seriously, if the council passes this I'm moving.

Absolutely; I will be in Houston within the next few years if this type of BS begins to gain traction intown. I am not living in an a urban area that has no potential for future urbanization. At least there they would never consider this type of crap, even if it is more suburban now. What I care about is the future, and the future looks bleek for Atlanta, if new development isnt allowed to block the view of existing development. Fuck this council person, she should be voted out of office for even considering such BS.


Terminus, what chance do you give this of actually becoming law, in any form?
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  #58  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2006, 4:24 PM
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Fontainebleau Hotel Corp. v. Forty-Five Twenty-Five, Inc. Fla. Dist. Ct. App. 1959.
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  #59  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2006, 4:49 PM
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Let's not forget too that down the road, older skyscrapers with less than premium views, will result in more affordable housing stock.

Not everyone counts a primo view as a "must have" and some would prefer a good location, subway access, and an "okay" view at an affordable price to be just fine.

For example some of these Novare buildings today will in 10-20 years become "class B" condo buildings that will offer relatively affordable housing in an older building.
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  #60  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2006, 5:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inoppositelock
Fontainebleau Hotel Corp. v. Forty-Five Twenty-Five, Inc. Fla. Dist. Ct. App. 1959.
For those of you who don't have access to legal summaries, this case is about a landowner who, out of spite, constructed a building to cast a shadow on a neighbor. The neighbor sued, and the court noted that the rule is that a landowner can't use his property to violate the lawful rights of his neighbor. But because there was no right to uninterrupted light/air, there was no right infringement. It then noted that the way to create such a right would be through ordinance (zoning, comprehensive plan, etc.), not through a court.

What's your point in listing that case?

It's (a) a Florida decision that has insignificant weight, at best, in Georgia, and (b) doesn't really directly address the legality/constitutionality of the proposed Atlanta ordinance.
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