CHICAGO | General Developments

[BruceP]

Originally Posted by ardecila

This is true, it should be part of a broader re-visioning of downtown. The city needs to think long and hard about what kinds of uses are needed in the future (more residential, less office/retail?) and the city's investments should support those future uses.

The good thing is we can pilot a lot of these changes using temporary infrastructure. Times Square was pedestrianized using paint and jersey barriers. When the world didn't end after a year or two of that, they ripped up the street and put in quality granite paving and permanent landscaping. It gives the city a lot of flexibility and nimbleness to respond to a changing economy and a changing society, if they have the courage to stand up to the many forces that resist physical change in the cityscape.



Stroget in Copenhagen does not parallel a major thoroughfare. Italian cities have used ZTLs to pedestrianize whole neighborhoods. Barcelona has superblocks where every street is closed to traffic except major arteries and every 3rd local street remains open for circulation. Mariahilferstrasse in Vienna WAS a major thoroughfare (90' right of way) before it was pedestrianized. Etc etc.

Americans and Europeans and American cities built on a grid and most European cities are very different animals. For one thing, Americans just ain't gonna give up their cars while far fewer urban Europeans even own them. I've lived in Chicago, NY, and London. Everyone I know in Chicago has a car (I don't); no one I know (or knew) who lived in NYC or London proper did. Strøget is relatively narrow for most of its length (about 2/3 of a mile) and wasn't a major through artery that Michigan Ave is. Where's all that traffic gonna go? Down Rush? Or St. Clair? Or State? Now that I mention that, either Rush or St. Clair WOULD work as a pedestrian mall, but Michigan Ave? Barcelona, as you mention, only pedestrianized "side" streets, not major arteries. Mariahilferstraße is not fully pedestrianized, but is mostly a "shared" street, much like Argyle east of B'way, with cross vehicular traffic banned (and is just about a mile long). It ain't no Ringstraße. Etc etc.

Anyone who thinks pedestrianizing Michigan would work DOESN'T live a mile east or west of it. Now, if you mean by "pedestrianizing" Michigan by, say, one lane in each direction, that's a real stretch of the term. All that is is a narrowing of the vehicle lanes, not "pedestrianizing."

And as best as I remember from my last trip to NYC, B'way, 42nd St, and 7th Ave still all have vehicular through traffic with minimal "rerouting."

[Halsted & Villagio]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

And what?






but within the historical context of chicago (of which you seem to know dreadfully little), posting a "no CHA here" sign on a site that has absolutely nothing to do with CHA does indeed make someone racist.

it's 100% pure grade-A racist dog-whistling bullshit.

and there's no "perhaps" about it.

Wow brother… a man after my own heart. You never cease to amaze. This is going to sound like a suck-up but who gives a frick… its the truth —- what a first class human being you are. In a perfect world I would be able to duplicate your character and imprint it upon others all over this city. Kudos brother…. kudos!

[OrdoSeclorum]

Originally Posted by BruceP

Americans and Europeans and American cities built on a grid and most European cities are very different animals. For one thing, Americans just ain't gonna give up their cars while far fewer urban Europeans even own them.

A) We don't need or want all American's to give up their cars. We can and should create more environments in America that are appealing for the millions who don't want to own a car. Chicago is a place that can do that, since it's that place now for many and it existed successfully prior to cars. B) There are tons of places Americans go without cars--pretty much anywhere they go on vacation. They love pedestrian friendly, low traffic towns and cities. It's just too expensive to live in them because the supply is restricted by law. C) I know a lot of people who live in smaller European cities and the car ownership rate among my acquaintances there is 100%... the city centers they spend time in isn't a sea of parking lots and four traffic lanes, a turning lane plus parking meters. There are shared streets and pedestrian areas. No reason that couldn't be done anywhere.

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by OrdoSeclorum

A) We don't need or want all American's to give up their cars. We can and should create more environments in America that are appealing for the millions who don't want to own a car. Chicago is a place that can do that, since it's that place now for many and it existed successfully prior to cars. B) There are tons of places Americans go without cars--pretty much anywhere they go on vacation. They love pedestrian friendly, low traffic towns and cities. It's just too expensive to live in them because the supply is restricted by law. C) I know a lot of people who live in smaller European cities and the car ownership rate among my acquaintances there is 100%... the city centers they spend time in isn't a sea of parking lots and four traffic lanes, a turning lane plus parking meters. There are shared streets and pedestrian areas. No reason that couldn't be done anywhere.

https://chicagodetours.com/chicago-history-questions-1/


http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohisto...es/200736.html

Well yes, but the Magnificent Mile in particular was specifically designed for cars. Chicago partially tore down the buildings on a pedestrian friendly Pine Street to make a car-friendly thoroughfare in 1918. It will never feel quite right to the pedestrian without major major infrastructure projects to narrow the street. It’s just too wide.

Which is why State St. and the Loop have always been the target for pedestrianization. The part of the city with excellent transit access and narrower streets that WERE designed for pedestrians and never widened to accommodate cars.

[Randomguy34]

Originally Posted by Handro

Did I miss something or did this sorta come out of left field?

A 9 story, 134 unit building at the corner of Chicago/Hudson in River North received it's building permit yesterday.

Here is a page describing it on the LG Development website: http://lgdevelopmentgroup.com/hugo/

Currently:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/75...!4d-87.6397328

The second 9 story building, at Chicago & Sedgewick, was just permitted. The second one is 93 units, so 227 total units for that block.

[Randomguy34]

CHA is proposing a 6 story, 64 unit + retail building at 3401 W Ogden known as Grace Manor. It'll be across the street from the Invest South/West RFP site. They expect to start construction towards the end of the year: https://cha-assets.s3.us-east-2.amaz...05.19.2021.pdf

[west-town-brad]

Originally Posted by Randomguy34

CHA is proposing a 6 story, 64 unit + retail building at 3401 W Ogden known as Grace Manor. It'll be across the street from the Invest South/West RFP site. They expect to start construction towards the end of the year: https://cha-assets.s3.us-east-2.amaz...05.19.2021.pdf

cool design but the most interesting part of that PDF is the tenant requirements to get a CHA unit... it's pretty strict

[oakesd88]

Originally Posted by west-town-brad

https://twitter.com/CTARPM/status/14...365725699?s=20

cool time lapse video from the Vautravers Building relocation

I thought the Vautravers Building relocation would include digging a basement. The building appears to have basement windows at its original location.

[Mr Downtown]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ Where are you getting the '15 meters' figure?

15 meters is based on my long-term observation of pedstreets all around the world. I came of age as an urbanist in the late 1970s, as we were trying to figure out why the pedmalls in the US hadn't worked to arrest downtown decline. As a result, I've followed the literature closely for 40 years, and paid close attention in my travels to where pedstreets seem to work.

The most important factor is for the pedstreet to be surrounded by a downtown population of significant size, whose retail demand is not drained away to auto-oriented power centers. The only place that condition has been reliably found in the US is college towns like Boulder, Charlottesville, Ithaca; or tourist towns like Santa Monica or Cape May.

The second most important factor is the width of the street, so visitors can shop both sides of the street at once and feel a sense of energy when there. This was what doomed most of the 1960s-70s US downtown pedmalls; they were just too friggin' empty. I've looked and looked for counterexamples in my world travels, and haven't found any that really disprove the rule. Cologne's Schildergasse is right on the edge, as is Shanghai's Nanjing Lu. But those have downtown densities we can only dream of.

The Champs-Élysées is definitely not a pedestrian street—though since 1990 they've worked a lot on making it more pedestrian-friendly. Worth remembering that underneath is both a busy Métro and a busy RER line. And—again—residential density that's probably twice that of Streeterville.

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by Randomguy34

CHA is proposing a 6 story, 64 unit + retail building at 3401 W Ogden known as Grace Manor. It'll be across the street from the Invest South/West RFP site. They expect to start construction towards the end of the year: https://cha-assets.s3.us-east-2.amaz...05.19.2021.pdf

Huh. Well, it's not your grandfather's CHA project I suppose. I'm hoping it's just the rendering, but this looks terribly unrefined. Want to like it, but I'm cautiously skeptical until I see more - and much more detail.

[SolarWind]

July 20, 2021









1436 W Randolph ^

July 22, 2021

[SolarWind]

July 20, 2021



August 3, 2021

[gebs]

Welcome back, Solar!

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

The most important factor is for the pedstreet to be surrounded by a downtown population of significant size, whose retail demand is not drained away to auto-oriented power centers. The only place that condition has been reliably found in the US is college towns like Boulder, Charlottesville, Ithaca; or tourist towns like Santa Monica or Cape May.

Glad you bring up Santa Monica... Michigan Ave seems just as touristy, if not more so, and tourists are less likely to have cars on Michigan. When it comes to locals, Santa Monica residents have plenty of easy access to auto-oriented shopping areas - and they, too, are more likely to own cars than a resident of Streeterville or River North. From a transit perspective, Michigan Avenue is the locus of a vast rail and bus network while Santa Monica's is relatively small. We don't have Southern California weather but all the other structural factors seem to suggest a pedestrian street could work on Michigan.

The second most important factor is the width of the street, so visitors can shop both sides of the street at once and feel a sense of energy when there. This was what doomed most of the 1960s-70s US downtown pedmalls; they were just too friggin' empty.

I don't disagree that the width of Michigan Avenue could be stultifying, but what about Las Ramblas in Barcelona? Are you disqualifying it because some sections have local access for vehicles? I think that model is probably better suited for Michigan Avenue - with all that width, you need to have action in the median as well as the street sides. A mix of plaza/park space and retail pavilions, maybe with some cultural stuff as well. Or closer to home, Denver's 16th St Mall which has some issues but certainly isn't dead.

Originally Posted by BruceP

Now that I mention that, either Rush or St. Clair WOULD work as a pedestrian mall, but Michigan Ave?

Not really, because the many large buildings fronting Michigan use the adjacent streets for garage entries and loading docks. New Urbanists would call it a "B" street. Michigan Avenue is the opposite, many years of careful design have eliminated curb cuts entirely and almost eliminated blank walls. That high-quality urban environment is exactly why it could be a strong pedestrian street, IMHO.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by Randomguy34

CHA is proposing a 6 story, 64 unit + retail building at 3401 W Ogden known as Grace Manor. It'll be across the street from the Invest South/West RFP site. They expect to start construction towards the end of the year: https://cha-assets.s3.us-east-2.amaz...05.19.2021.pdf

Y'all hair watch, Ogden is about to blow up all the way from West Loop to city limits. Alderman Scott is going to turn this into a new kind of neighborhood...


Have any of you been following the "Under the Grid" project by Haman Cross?

[Mr Downtown]

Originally Posted by ardecila

I don't disagree that the width of Michigan Avenue could be stultifying, but what about Las Ramblas in Barcelona?

I encourage you to look more closely. As it happens, Barcelona was one of the last places I spent some time making observations before, you know, the thing started.

Clearly, weather is a huge difference between Barcelona and Chicago. Average high doesn’t reach 60ºF only for the four winter months in Barcelona. We have seven months that it doesn’t reach 60ºF.

Historically, Las Ramblas were part of a culture in which nearly everyone took a walk at dusk for social reasons. These days, the main central city ramblas from the Columbus statue to the Plaça de Catalunya are pretty much captive to the cruise ships that discharge hundreds of British pensioners every day, and the enormous numbers of tourists staying in the adjacent Barri Gòtic. So lots of restaurants and ice cream and souvenir kiosks; very little in serious retail. That’s all moved up around the department stores near Plaça de Catalunya or along the Passeig de Gracia (with Metro L3 running beneath) in the Eixample, or out west onto Avinguda Diagonal, an environment much more like the Champs-Elysées. The big new rambla, the eastward extension of Av. Diagonal into the old seaport industrial area, has a big shopping mall at both ends—but little other than convenience retail opens directly onto the pedestrian promenade.

TL;DR: Barcelona’s ramblas are linear parks with some restaurants, not pedestrian shopping streets.

[Via Chicago]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

Y'all hair watch, Ogden is about to blow up all the way from West Loop to city limits. Alderman Scott is going to turn this into a new kind of neighborhood...


Have any of you been following the "Under the Grid" project by Haman Cross?

while i dont love this particular design and i agree with another comment that it seems unrefined, i do agree that this will absolutely be a positive development along with the nearby TBD Invest South/West proposal.

obv we'll need to see the execution, but i think it just goes to show that these kinds of affordable housing developments dont have to be drab and depressing, and can actually enlighten blighted corridors. we've seen it with the library/housing combo developments that went up under Rahm and this feels like a continuation.

this along with the urban farm, charter school, sinai developments, and the Lawndale Christian developments will significantly help this corridor. i still maintain the lowest hanging fruit is fixing the damn streetscape. i remember some Vision Zero project that was supposed to address that awful Ogden/Pulaski/Cermak situation, dont know what ever came of it. but the whole stretch from western to kostner needs some damn love. medians/trees/benches/road diet/bike lanes...all of its lacking and needed. and its sadly the way most people interact with the neighborhood and forms their first impression.

[BruceP]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Not really, because the many large buildings fronting Michigan use the adjacent streets for garage entries and loading docks. New Urbanists would call it a "B" street. Michigan Avenue is the opposite, many years of careful design have eliminated curb cuts entirely and almost eliminated blank walls. That high-quality urban environment is exactly why it could be a strong pedestrian street, IMHO.

And where would you re-route all that traffic onto and off of the Drive? Onto Oak St? "Pedestrianizing" Michigan would require a total revamping of traffic flows for the entire area. It ain't gonna happen.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

while i dont love this particular design and i agree with another comment that it seems unrefined, i do agree that this will absolutely be a positive development along with the nearby TBD Invest South/West proposal.

obv we'll need to see the execution, but i think it just goes to show that these kinds of affordable housing developments dont have to be drab and depressing, and can actually enlighten blighted corridors. we've seen it with the library/housing combo developments that went up under Rahm and this feels like a continuation.

this along with the urban farm, charter school, sinai developments, and the Lawndale Christian developments will significantly help this corridor. i still maintain the lowest hanging fruit is fixing the damn streetscape. i remember some Vision Zero project that was supposed to address that awful Ogden/Pulaski/Cermak situation, dont know what ever came of it. but the whole stretch from western to kostner needs some damn love. medians/trees/benches/road diet/bike lanes...all of its lacking and needed. and its sadly the way most people interact with the neighborhood and forms their first impression.

Yup, if the commercial corridors weren't literally superfund sites (that's the Silver Shovel dump site you were talking about with Vision Zero), places like Lawndale wouldn't feel so bleak. The side streets have some vacant lots, but are mostly intact and decently maintained. It's just hard to have hope when the main drag of your neighborhood is literally where everyone (even city agencies) dumps their toxic shit.

This was just in the news today. Can someone post the details for me, I'm on mobile:

https://blockclubchicago.org/2021/08...w-to-weigh-in/

Also check out the veterans housing they are building on the Park on Roosevelt. These large developments are already starting to take a serious bite out of the vacant lots in the area. Can't wait to see the SFHs start wrecking up the little ones...

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

This was just in the news today. Can someone post the details for me, I'm on mobile:

https://blockclubchicago.org/2021/08...w-to-weigh-in/

The city is doing a study. Meeting this Thursday at Douglass Park:
https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/dept...ing-study.html

I had a very similar idea a few years ago. This is the same rail line that runs in the Eisenhower trench through Oak Park... the Eisenhower rebuild, whenver it happens, will include a trail on the north side of the trench linking the Prairie Path to Columbus Park. With this new Altenheim section, you could have a trail all the way from Elgin/Aurora to Western Ave...