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  #1  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2006, 3:35 PM
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Deal with it CWS properties!

Who made these guys the ruler of Austin. They are trying to threat the City of Austin by not extended the Hike and Bike trail if they don't get the variance. Well you know what we have lived this long by not having it so the city needs to get some balls and not grant them the variance. They need us more than we need them so deal with it CWS and build the apartment 200 feet back.

Oh yea are these apartments or condos or both?
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  #2  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2006, 3:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southsideatx04
Oh yea are these apartments or condos or both?
Three towers, two would be for condominiums, one would be for apartments. The current rule says that buildings have to be built atleast 150 feet from the river. The developer wants to build within 80 feet of the river.

For comparison, the Hyatt is just 70 feet from the river. In a way, the Hyatt isn't all that obtrusive, these towers would be, though. Imagine three of them as close to the river as the Hyatt, but at 200 feet each, they'd be 18 feet taller than the Hyatt, (about the height of a mechanical penthouse, or else, two floors of a building).

Also, the location of the Hyatt being near the Ann Richards Bridge, (formerly Congress Avenue Bridge), doesn't make it so overpowering since that area is already built up with the bridge and other buildings. But where these are proposed, being that close to the river would seem out of place. There's also few buildings around there of that size.

I'm not against this project, I'd like to see it get built, but it needs to be farther back from the river than 80 feet. 150 feet as the city has adopted would be fine. And if it's a land issue at the site, and they don't think they can squeeze the buildings onto it, than build two taller towers instead of three. Putting all the floors into two buildings would make two 27-story towers. That might seem like a lot, but even the Hyatt was originally proposed with 25 floors, and this was in 1979/1980 when there weren't any sizable buildings within 6 blocks of the Hyatt.
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Old Posted Nov 26, 2006, 8:46 PM
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^^^^ Pretty much my sentiments. I'm thinking the Hyatt's patio is 70 feet away, but not the main building - it might be set further back. For this new project, there should be a compromise made that keeps everyone happy. I hope 80 feet is NOT going to be that compromise.

Can a board walk be installed to extend the trail if the developer will not negotiate reasonably?

EDIT: Took a trip down to look at the Hyatt and the rest of this area. I think I was wrong on the Hyatt. Although I did not measure it, it appears the Hyatt patio is closer than 70 feet, and the main building may be 70 feet. Pretty hard to tell, and not sure where the measurements are taken from. Regardless, it is VERY close.

Last edited by JAM; Nov 29, 2006 at 2:05 AM.
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Old Posted Nov 26, 2006, 10:55 PM
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The Austin Chronicle weighs in on the situation:

The Town Lake Variance Shuffle

The hike-and-bike trail, questionable developer tactics, and a potential windfall for urban parks all flow together on East Riverside Drive


November, 24, 2006
By Katherine Gregor

A controversial high-rise residential complex planned for Town Lake – already under fire for being too close to the water – is pointing up some fascinating twists and turns, as well as loopholes and inequities, in the city code that requires residential developers to provide or fund new public parkland. Indeed, the bellwether project is shaping up as a case study that could help convince City Council to amend the code – thereby creating a new developer-fueled funding source for Central Austin parks. And just in time: With City Hall pushing to get 25,000 people living Downtown, all those condo-dwellers will need more green space to jog, recreate, and walk their peke-a-poos.

According to city staff, the developer of the project at 222/300 E. Riverside, CWS Capital Partners, may be legally obligated to provide the city of Austin significantly more parkland than it had planned to, on a prime Town Lake waterfront site. The project – an 838-unit, high-rise residential complex proposed for the south shore of Town Lake – offers a valuable opportunity for the city to extend the Town Lake hike-and-bike trail. Acquiring parkland on the site is a high priority, said assistant director Stuart Strong of the Parks & Recreation Department, in order to help close a gap in the trail and provide a buffer of parkland for trail users.


Link to entire article

Austin Chronicle's map showing location of project



2 different proposed site plans - 1 with 200 foot setback and one with 80 foot setback.



The article mentioned that the Parks Board is scheduled to vote on the project Nov. 28 and the Planning Commission will likely vote Dec. 12 on the project's parkland dedication issues, before they decide whether to grant the developer's variance requests.

It also mentioned that on Nov. 14, the land and facilities subcommittee of the Parks Board recommended to the full board a denial of all variances to the Town Lake setback, while permitting setback reductions along East Bouldin Creek.
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Old Posted Nov 27, 2006, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM
Can a board walk be installed to extend the trail if the developer will not negotiate reasonably?
Yes, there was an article several weeks ago in the Austin American Statesman about the possibility of closing the gap on the Town Lake Hike and Bike Trail by constructing a boardwalk.

The link to the article and a rendering was posted in the Austin Projects and Construction Thread in Post 1714

The article noted that officials with the city's Parks and Recreation Department and members of the Town Lake Trail Foundation, were working to close the current 1.25 mile gap along the river and said a development boom had created the best opportunity in decades to extend the trail on land where possible and building over-the-water "boardwalks" where a trail can't go.

They had landed a $250,000 pledge for the project from Constellation Property Group, which planned to build condominiums at the northeast corner of Riverside Drive and Interstate 35, (Star Riverside?) and were negotiating with other property owners to encourage them to dedicate right-of-way for a trail.

The cost would depend on how much of the land was granted to the city, and how much of the trail could go on land versus over the water. A few years ago, the city estimated the cost at about $10 million if the trail was built completely over the water.

It was estimated that if the trail could be constructed on land, it would have an estimated cost of $50 a linear foot versus $1,000 a linear foot for a concrete-and-piers boardwalk over the water.

An on-land trail, including cantilevered sections over steep terrain, would also be easier to design and quicker to build.
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Old Posted Nov 28, 2006, 12:57 AM
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Upon looking at this site closer via Google Earth, what does a trail extension gain Austinites anyway? It doesn't appear the trail can be extended any further in this area?
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  #7  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2006, 7:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM
Upon looking at this site closer via Google Earth, what does a trail extension gain Austinites anyway? It doesn't appear the trail can be extended any further in this area?
based on the outcome of the varience i assure you that the dominoes will fall. all the owners along riverside are watching this to see what happens.

the only place where pontoon bridge option would have to be used is in the area immediately west of I-35. that is currently single-family houses sitting on top of a cliff. other than that it should be a free-for-all from south congress to lakeside.
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Old Posted Nov 29, 2006, 7:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM
EDIT: Took a trip down to look at the Hyatt and the rest of this area. I think I was wrong on the Hyatt. Although I did not measure it, it appears the Hyatt patio is closer than 70 feet, and the main building may be 70 feet. Pretty hard to tell, and not sure where the measurements are taken from. Regardless, it is VERY close.
I measured the distance with GoogleEarth. It's not exact in all cases since angles can make it impossible to see the base of a building, but GoogleEarth measurements have been correct in the past compared with known distances provided by other sources.
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  #9  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2006, 9:24 PM
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i spoke with the head of the save town lake group (a buddy of mine) and he admits that the variances will probably go through. his sources say that the city isn't taking CWS's threat as a bluff.

we'll see...
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  #10  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2006, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rad707
i spoke with the head of the save town lake group (a buddy of mine) and he admits that the variances will probably go through. his sources say that the city isn't taking CWS's threat as a bluff.

we'll see...

I really don't see what extending the trail 1700 feet gains the city of Austin - in other words, who cares if they are not bluffing. The property is worth more to those who live there if they can walk out the back of their building and access the trail. The developer knows this, and it will command a premium of the price of the condos or rent of the apartments. If they have to put a fence around a bunch of old apartment buildings and move back the entire 200 feet, the developer does not have a good situation on their hands. Additionally, if the developer is not bluffing, then they obviously can make this project work using a distance of greater than 80 feet. It all just does not add up.

I'm sure the developer can work a plan and go back further than 80 feet and still make this project work. If it is just the tips that are 80 feet away (lets say 120 for posterity, similar to the left 17 story tower in red), that is not too bad, but if they want to line the water with a wall of buildings at 80 feet, then is it worth it?

What are the brown sections of the drawing above supposed to represent? Are these more buildings?

Last edited by JAM; Nov 30, 2006 at 12:36 AM.
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  #11  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2006, 4:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM
I really don't see what extending the trail 1700 feet gains the city of Austin
Here's the way I'm interpreting the issue.

Regardless of whether or not the city grants the variance, they still want to close this 1.25 mile gap in the trail. The strip of land in front of the two existing apartments is currently owned by CWS.

If the city grants the variance, CWS would transfer a 25-foot-wide 1,700-foot-long strip of land along the shoreline to the city, which the city would then own. 1,000 feet would be along Town Lake, and another 700 feet would turn inland along East Bouldin Creek.

Under the terms of this particular deal, CWS would also be financially responsible for building a 10-foot-wide extension of the hike-and-bike trail on the transferred land. At approximately $50 per linear foot for a trail built on land, this would cost CWS about $85,000.

If the city does not grant the variance, the city would have to go with the boardwalk plan for the 1,000 feet that actually runs along the shoreline of Town Lake, to at least East Bouldin Creek.

The boardwalk plan was estimated to cost $1,000 per linear foot, so the city would have to spend approximately $1 million to construct a boardwalk on that particular stretch of the trail.

From an aesthetics standpoint, it's better for the city to deny CWS the variance, leave the apartments where they are and have the towers set back 200 feet and go ahead and spend $1 million constructing a boardwalk over Town Lake along that section of the trail, but that would cost more and take longer to complete.

From a financial standpoint, it's better for the city to grant CWS the variance. The city winds up with a 25 foot strip of dedicated parkland and gets 1,700 more feet of trail for free, plus it wouldn't take as long as building a boardwalk. The money the city saved by not having to pay for the construction of a boardwalk along that section of the trail could be used for other trail improvements such as construction of new restrooms, shoring up other parts of the trail that need it, new tree planting, etc.

There would be an additional 55 foot strip of land between the dedicated parkland the city would then own and where the edge of the CWS buildings would be, but that 55 foot strip of land would be owned by CWS, although they couldn't actually put buildings there.

BTW, if you go to:

http://www.townlaketrail.org

you can scroll down to the "Projects" section, then click on Horizon to see future improvements. Besides the Riverside Boardwalk idea, other improvements might include:

Austin High Fitness Facility:

Almost 70% of daily trail users access the Trail via the MoPac Stretching Area (aka "The Rock") near Austin High.  The facilities in the area are inadequate and poorly placed.  This ambitious project would require a complete redesign of the entire area to make it more user friendly.  Stay tuned as plans develope!

Brackenridge Extension (Three Potential Phases):

This project traces it's roots back to the very formation of the Trail Foundation.  The Brackenridge tract is comprised of the land, owned by UT, that begins just west of MoPac and Deep Eddy Pool and extends westward to Red Bud Island.  In Phase One, we envision extending the Trail along the shoreline and building a bridge to Red Bud Island where users would loop around and head back in the direction they came.

Phase Two consists of an additional trail extension to the south and west of Red Bud Isle around the nature preserve. 

Phase Three would include extending the Trail around the Lyons Municipal Golf Course.  These additional amenities would add approximately four miles of trail to the current system. 

We continue to work with all the parties involved to make this a reality.

Mopac Dirt Lot Resurfacing (North):

As mentioned above in the "Austin High Fitness Facility" description, the vast majority of trail users access the Trail under MoPac on the north side of the river.  This is primarily due to the availability of parking in the huge lot near Austin High.  Once that lot is full, and sometimes even when it isn't, trail users park underneath MoPac on the TxDOT right of way.  While technically illegal, parking restrictions in the area are not usually enforced.  We've been working with Parks and TxDOT to legitimize and beautify the area.  2006 could be the year this project moves from "future" to "current"!  We'll keep you posted.

Mopac Dirt Lot Resurfacing (South):

Years ago, long before MoPac existed, Austin dumped its garbage at the western edge of what is now Zilker Park.  It may seem absurd to many of us 75+ years later but the entire area bordered by MoPac on the west, the Colorado River on the north, Stratford Dr., on the south, and Barton Creek on the east is a giant landfill.  Garbage deteriorates over time and any surface material used to cover it naturally settles.  If you've ever parked your car underneath MoPac on the south side of Town Lake, you know that the parking lot is full of potholes and other bizarre undulations on the surface.  Have you noticed that the concrete footings that hold up the MoPac flyover appear to be rising up from the ground?  They're not, the surface area is actually sinking around them.  Efforts to pave and stabilize the area in the past have been met with unsatisfactory results. 

We've received many suggestions to perform work in the area and hope this brief explanation sheds some light on the areas history.

Pigeon Screens:

Shortly after resurfacing the MoPac Stretching Area with dark green tiles, we noticed something that has always been there but never quite so obvious.  Roosting pigeons produce more than comforting cooing sounds!  The stretching area and MoPac footbridge handrails are covered with droppings. 

Pigeon screens blocking the areas directly above heavily used spaces could be a win-win for trail user and pigeon alike.  TxDOT has right of way for this area and is scheduled to address this issue in 2006. Check back for updates.



Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM
What are the brown sections of the drawing above supposed to represent? Are these more buildings?

Yes, those are more buildings. I think the brown sections are low-rise buildings connecting the towers, while the red section represents the high-rise portion of the project.

Last edited by LoneStarMike; Nov 30, 2006 at 1:52 PM.
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  #12  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2006, 9:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas
The current rule says that buildings have to be built at least 150 feet from the river.

That's what I initially thought, too, based on an earlier article I read in the Austin American Statesman, but evidently, that's not the case.

Under the current code, the actual building is supposed to be setback 200 feet from the Town Lake shoreline.

Apparently there are 2 setbacks - a primary setback where no development is allowed, and a secondary setback where some site development is allowed, but no actual buildings can be constructed. I'm under the impression that the secondary setback could include things like a patio or deck, a swimming pool, tennis courts, a plaza with a fountain, surface parking, etc.

The Waterfront Overlay District is divided into 15 subdistricts and each subdistrict has its' own set of rules and regulations.

The property that CWS wants to develop is in the South Shore Central subdistrict, which includes the property bounded by the Town Lake shoreline on the north, East Bouldin Creek on the east and south, and South First Street on the west.

The Waterfront Overlay ordinance is in the Zoning section of the city's Land Development Code, which is available online at

http://www.amlegal.com/austin%5Ftx

This is a great site for someone like me who knows next-to-nothing about zoning ordinances and issues.

(After choosing frames or no frames, you can type in "Chapter 25" in the search field and the first link that comes up is CHAPTER 25-2. ZONING. Click on that and it brings up all these zoning ordinances.)

Scroll down to Division 8. 
Waterfront Overlay District and Subdistrict Development Regulations.

Subpart C  covers the different subdistrict regulations.

§ 25-2-742 is the part that covers the South Shore Central Subdistrict Regulations

The primary setback lines are located:      

(1)  150 feet landward from the Town Lake shoreline;
          
(2)  80 feet from the East Bouldin Creek centerline; and
          
(3)  35 feet north of the northern public right-of-way boundary of Riverside Drive.

The secondary setback lines are located:           

(1)  50 feet landward from the primary setback line parallel to the Town Lake shoreline; and           

(2)  130 feet from the primary setback line parallel to the East Bouldin Creek centerline.

If you go back and read the earlier Austin Chronicle "Town Lake Variance Shuffle" article posted above, it notes that:

Quote:
On Nov. 14, the land and facilities subcommittee of the Parks Board recommended to the full board a denial of all variances to the Town Lake setback, while permitting setback reductions along East Bouldin Creek.

So the city is already considering a variance with respect to the setback requirements on the East Bouldin Creek borders along the eastern and southern boundaries of this subdistrict. Upon learning that, my thought was - why should CWS get a variance on the Town Lake setback requirements, too?

Finally, there was an earlier Austin Chronicle article from back in October called "A Waterfront War" posted in another thread.

That article mentioned:

Quote:
According to parks board vice chair Jeb Boyt, no other developer has ever requested a variance from the primary setback. "We can be much more flexible about the secondary setback," said Boyt. "But we need to apply a much higher standard in the primary setback."

If CWS is proposing to have parts of the high-rise portion of this project 80 feet from the Town Lake shoreline, they're basically asking the city to cut the primary setback almost in half and eliminate the secondary setback all together. In return, all the city gets is a trail on a 25-foot strip of land - land that CWS couldn't build anything on anyway. The more I think about it, the more I think the city and it's residents would be getting ripped off if we go with this plan. It gives CWS too much and the city too little, IMHO.

Based on my understanding of everything I've read so far, here's what I would consider to be two more reasonable compromises.

Compromise #1.

Keep the 150-foot primary setback along Town Lake but eliminate the 50-foot secondary setback.

Require CWS to designate the entire 150 feet from the Town Lake shoreline as dedicated parkland, but make the city responsible for the financial costs of constructing the trail extension on that land. Financially, the city would still come out ahead because it's approximately $950 per linear foot cheaper to construct the trail over land than doing so over the water with a boardwalk.

This compromise would put 150 feet of designated parkland between the Town Lake shoreline and the towers.

Compromise #2:

Reduce the 150-foot primary setback to 100 feet and keep the secondary 50-foot setback in place.

Require CWS to designate the 100-foot primary setback from the Town Lake shoreline as dedicated parkland, but make the city responsible for the financial costs of constructing the trail extension on that land.

The remaining 50-foot secondary setback between the designated parkland and CWS' towers would be privately owned by CWS and could be used for site development (pool, patio, plaza, fountain, etc) but no buildings.

Both plans would allow CWS to place their towers 50 feet closer to the shore than what city ordinances currently allow, but they would still be 70 feet further away from the shore than what CWS is currently proposing.

I realize the developers are trying to get the best deal they possibly can, but the city should be doing that, as well. I don't have a problem with the city negotiating with developers, but personally, I think either of the above two compromises are the most the city should have to give up. Of course this is only my opinion.
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  #13  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2006, 6:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneStarMike

Both plans would allow CWS to place their towers 50 feet closer to the shore than what city ordinances currently allow, but they would still be 70 feet further away from the shore than what CWS is currently proposing.

I realize the developers are trying to get the best deal they possibly can, but the city should be doing that, as well. I don't have a problem with the city negotiating with developers, but personally, I think either of the above two compromises are the most the city should have to give up. Of course this is only my opinion.
I agree. I feel the city is in a strong position to negotiate. Getting this trail extended really provides nothing. It will still deadend. Trail users will still need to use Riverside until they cross over 35. IMO, this extra extension is worth very little to the public, because they will still need use Riverside Dr. However, the trail extension is worth a tremendous amount to the developer. It makes the property worth considerably more. The city of Austin really has the upper hand because of those two reasons, and should negotiate as such.

The two items the developer brings to the table are:

1) Trail extension - doesn't seem worth much
2) Tax base - worth a lot

The tax base that the developer brings to the city of Austin is really their only negotiation power IMO. This is crucial to Austin and also for achieving a denser Austin. However, the developer probably needs to build to make a profit, and thus, the tax base will come regardless of what decision is made concerning the variance.

In summary: (my opinion of course )

1) Trail extension not worth much
2) Tax base will arrive regardless of what happens
3) Granting a 80 foot variance will UGLIFY our lake front and gain us next to nothing.

I think the developer needs the trail more than the public does, and will compromise accordingly.

Last edited by JAM; Dec 1, 2006 at 6:43 PM.
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  #14  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2006, 6:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM
I agree. I feel the city is in a strong position to negotiate. Getting this trail extended really provides nothing. It will still deadend. Trail users will still need to use Riverside until they cross over 35. IMO, this extra extension is worth very little to the public, because they will still need use Riverside Dr. However, the trail extension is worth a tremendous amount to the developer. It makes the property worth considerably more. The city of Austin really has the upper hand because of those two reasons, and should negotiate as such.
As previously noted, at a bare minimum, building the trail here saves the city about a million bucks on boardwalk costs which they could then use on other boardwalk sections.
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Old Posted Dec 1, 2006, 6:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M1EK
As previously noted, at a bare minimum, building the trail here saves the city about a million bucks on boardwalk costs which they could then use on other boardwalk sections.
Is there a schedule and a plan set for building this boardwalk?
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  #16  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2006, 5:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM
Is there a schedule and a plan set for building this boardwalk?
Not yet.

The city must first determine how much of the existing gap in the trail can be built over land and in order to do that, there's two things they have to consider.

1. Whether or not it would be physically possible to build the trail over a particular section of land; and if so

2. Whether or not they can get the propery owner to dedicate the land for a trail.

Only then will the city know how much will not be land trail and must be boardwalk and at that point the planning and scheduling process could begin.
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  #17  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2006, 6:47 AM
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I'm having difficulty seeing a boardwalk built anytime in the near future. Is anyone seriously considering it?
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  #18  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2006, 9:48 AM
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This week's Austin Chronicle (December 29, 2006) has an article titled:

Developing Stories: Where Are They Now?: The latest on this year's big digs

It gives updates on most of the major downtown projects that have been proposed and/or approved but haven't actually started construction, yet.

This excerpt from the article relates to the proposed CWS towers along Town Lake.

Riverside Condos: Bad Faith

In response to community objections to its site plan for a residential tower at 222/300 E. Riverside, developer CWS Capital Partners has submitted a new site plan – to make the project worse.

Those familiar with the negotiating tactics commonly used by CWS' agent, attorney Richard Suttle, regard the move as a ploy to create more "bargaining room" to get what the developer ultimately wants – variances to build closer to Town Lake and East Bouldin Creek than city code currently allows. Preventing the developer from building on protected waterfront land has been the primary concern of neighborhood associations. Suttle did not respond to the Chronicle's invitation to comment.

City reviewer Javier Delgado, who had given the new site plan a quick once-over, said the major changes were to the building on the 300 E. Riverside site and appeared to be: 1) It was moved significantly closer to Bouldin Creek; 2) the footprint of the tallest, 200-foot (17-story) tower was enlarged by about 5,000 square feet; 3) the building was increased from 352 to 450 units; and 4) heights of other project elements are no longer stepped-down to comply with neighborhood compatibility requirements. The buildings are still shown within 80 feet of Town Lake; city code requires a setback of 200 feet.

Delgado was told the developer had changed the site plan "to reflect some input they received from the neighborhood." The co-president of South River City Citizens, Danette Chimenti: "The new site plans submitted are even further out of compliance with the city land-development code and, therefore, are less acceptable to the neighborhood."

A recommendation on the variance requests from the Parks Board (which then passes the matter to the Planning Commission for a decision) was delayed to give the developer more time to address neighborhood concerns. But Chimenti said, "Unfortunately, this is a step backward for any potential negotiations with the neighborhood. It indicates that the developer is not really negotiating in good faith." A group organized to protect Town Lake waterfront land, Save Town Lake, is holding a Jan. 6 benefit concert at Antone's featuring the Flatlanders and Jimmy LaFave; for updates and tickets, visit www.savetownlake.org
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  #19  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2006, 4:58 PM
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This developer's negotiation tactics make me wonder what might happen if an individual buyer has a construction problem with their unit.
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