The Metro Vancouver Retail Thread

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by cairnstone

The thing people forget is that this is a free market and there has been no rulings by anyone except the city of Vancouver. Closing Bars really does not solve the problem. The malls are open construction sites are still open. The only thing the stops pandemic is the chinese model of locking the province. That means basically means arrest anyone that is not essential service. I was live by a local pub that plans to stay open as they are fairly large and have capacity to hold 50 people and also maintain distance.

Meanwhile all shopping malls and grocery stores should be closed and managed by the state to stop the spread. Construction sites all have porta potties that are germ factories on a good day. And all the masks and sanitizer does is give false sense of security.

You're right, outside the City of Vancouver bars and restaurants can open with up to 50 people inside; I should have made it clearer that in my view they shouldn't be open. The malls may choose to close soon - many of the stores are closed anyway, and several US mall operators have closed there. I'm not sure grocery stores have been closed anywhere in the world. The Bay Area 'shelter in place' restrictions allow people to travel to collect groceries and go to pharmacies.

[Sheba]

I went to Metrotown today (grocery run) and it was post-apocalyptic - most of the stores were closed and there weren't many people in the hallways. Superstore seems to be the only place that gets busy and that's only at certain times (first thing when they open and lunchtime are particularly bad).

Also when I was on the Expo Line there weren't many people, and there weren't many cars driving around either. It sounds like a lot of people have gotten the message and are staying home for the most part.

[casper]

Originally Posted by cairnstone

The thing people forget is that this is a free market and there has been no rulings by anyone except the city of Vancouver. Closing Bars really does not solve the problem. The malls are open construction sites are still open. The only thing the stops pandemic is the chinese model of locking the province. That means basically means arrest anyone that is not essential service. I was live by a local pub that plans to stay open as they are fairly large and have capacity to hold 50 people and also maintain distance.

Meanwhile all shopping malls and grocery stores should be closed and managed by the state to stop the spread. Construction sites all have porta potties that are germ factories on a good day. And all the masks and sanitizer does is give false sense of security.

The online grocery stores are doing good business but also fully booked. The Stong's site is reporting they are booked several days out. The Thrifty Foods and Save-On-Foods sites have been crashing for the past days.

a number of stores look to have stopped doing in-store bakery. The probably should. The standards in North America are not as strong as in many Asian countries. In Asia, the people handling the roast chickens or bread would normally be wearing a face mask. That is just not common in North America.

[Tetsuo]

Save-ON cancelled my online order (placed for an older relative) that was expected mid-next week

[casper]

Originally Posted by Tetsuo

Save-ON cancelled my online order (placed for an older relative) that was expected mid-next week

With Stongs (https://express.stongs.com) you have to be quick. I use them and normally you can book for next day. But with what is going on they are fully booked.

They book up to five days out and open up new slots at midnight. You have to be quick to get one of those slot.

It does save your cart so you can shop ahead of time and then log back in just after midnight.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by casper

The online grocery stores are doing good business but also fully booked. The Stong's site is reporting they are booked several days out. The Thrifty Foods and Save-On-Foods sites have been crashing for the past days.

a number of stores look to have stopped doing in-store bakery. The probably should. The standards in North America are not as strong as in many Asian countries. In Asia, the people handling the roast chickens or bread would normally be wearing a face mask. That is just not common in North America.

Nor are the masks needed by healthy people, as the Chief Provincial Health Officer has said many times. Rather the asian fetish for them is depriving hospitals and doctors offices of the supply they need.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Nor are the masks needed by healthy people, as the Chief Provincial Health Officer has said many times. Rather the asian fetish for them is depriving hospitals and doctors offices of the supply they need.

That's true here, because we don't appear to keep stocks of surgical masks in sufficient numbers to have enough for medical staff in this sort of situation, never mind for the general population.

But bear in mind that the relatively successful (so far) approach to reducing cases of Coronavirus in China was based on everyone who was out, wearing a mask. When you don't know who might have the virus and be spreading it (as you can be infected several days before you're aware of any symptoms), everyone wearing a mask reduces the risk (of someone infected spreading it, not of someone wearing a mask avoiding it). Singapore distributed five million masks in their response to Coronavirus. But there were shortages of masks, and inconsistent messaging in other countries, including Hong Kong. "For communities that saw otherwise healthy people succumb to SARS in 2003, wearing a mask doesn’t seem so optional. In China, Japan and other parts of Asia, masks are commonly considered preventative -- the same way, for example, taking vitamin C or echinacea might be in the U.S."
[more in this Bloomberg article]

[NewfBC]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Nor are the masks needed by healthy people, as the Chief Provincial Health Officer has said many times. Rather the asian fetish for them is depriving hospitals and doctors offices of the supply they need.

Look at the Covid stats for Japan, where wearing masks is common.. 3x our population packed into a tiny space.. with an older population.. people working in service and retail were required to wear masks.. hand sanitizer is everywhere.

And the wave started there a week or 2 before here..


Ron.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by Changing City

That's true here, because we don't appear to keep stocks of surgical masks in sufficient numbers to have enough for medical staff in this sort of situation, never mind for the general population.

But bear in mind that the relatively successful (so far) approach to reducing cases of Coronavirus in China was based on everyone who was out, wearing a mask. When you don't know who might have the virus and be spreading it (as you can be infected several days before you're aware of any symptoms), everyone wearing a mask reduces the risk (of someone infected spreading it, not of someone wearing a mask avoiding it). Singapore distributed five million masks in their response to Coronavirus. But there were shortages of masks, and inconsistent messaging in other countries, including Hong Kong. "For communities that saw otherwise healthy people succumb to SARS in 2003, wearing a mask doesn’t seem so optional. In China, Japan and other parts of Asia, masks are commonly considered preventative -- the same way, for example, taking vitamin C or echinacea might be in the U.S."
[more in this Bloomberg article]

That's an extreme waste of resources. Save the masks for the Medical staff. You can't expect the entire population to wear masks, when the vast majority of them don't/won't wear them correctly, thus practically ensuring that anyone wearing a mask become infected when they reuse them, or still ends up spreading it if they think the mask protected them when they were already infected.

If someone wants peace of mind, they can make or buy a cloth mask that won't protect them from the virus but might help prevent spreading their own spit when they speak. That's all it does.

Medical masks, scrubs and gloves are all only worn once and then discarded in medical waste bins. This is why you shouldn't be wearing them outside. They are good until you remove them (eg to eat) and then they're done. If you have facial hair? They don't protect you at all. If you have makeup on, also no protection, because no seal will be formed.

The medical professionals and scientists have spoken, don't bother wearing a mask unless you're trained how to use it and are working with patients. You'll just be wasting them.

[casper]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Nor are the masks needed by healthy people, as the Chief Provincial Health Officer has said many times. Rather the asian fetish for them is depriving hospitals and doctors offices of the supply they need.

I think we taking about to different things.

I am not suggesting everyone should be wearing a mask.

I am suggesting people who are preparing food in commercial kitchens (such as grocery stores) should be wearing masks. Basically people who due to health regulations need to wear hair nets to avoid hair getting into peoples food.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Kisai

That's an extreme waste of resources. Save the masks for the Medical staff. You can't expect the entire population to wear masks, when the vast majority of them don't/won't wear them correctly, thus practically ensuring that anyone wearing a mask become infected when they reuse them, or still ends up spreading it if they think the mask protected them when they were already infected.

If someone wants peace of mind, they can make or buy a cloth mask that won't protect them from the virus but might help prevent spreading their own spit when they speak. That's all it does.

Medical masks, scrubs and gloves are all only worn once and then discarded in medical waste bins. This is why you shouldn't be wearing them outside. They are good until you remove them (eg to eat) and then they're done. If you have facial hair? They don't protect you at all. If you have makeup on, also no protection, because no seal will be formed.

The medical professionals and scientists have spoken, don't bother wearing a mask unless you're trained how to use it and are working with patients. You'll just be wasting them.

Thanks for the detailed explanation of why the universal adoption of mask wearing has limited value. I wasn't attempting to disagree with the advice to not wear them here, only to explain that different countries seem to have different approaches (in part because of their earlier experience with SARS).

In New York Governor Cuomo is pointing out that masks usually cost 85c each (US), and if he can get any now, they're being sold at up to $7 each. That's why there's a request for the US Federal Government to control procurement and pricing. Here, we seem to have enough supplies for now, but we probably won't if the attempts to limit the continued spread are unsuccessful, and we end up with a much higher number needing hospital treatment.

[NewfBC]

Interesting read about Taiwan...
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tai...sons-1.5505031

Ron.

[SpongeG]

I was watching news of what's going on in Europe, I think it was Czechoslovakia, that will fine you the equivalent of $1000 Canadian if you go out in public without a mask.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

Interesting read about Taiwan...
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tai...sons-1.5505031

Ron.

Sure for whatever political reasons they skipped the first wave, but how long will that last.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/23/asia/...hnk/index.html

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Sure for whatever political reasons they skipped the first wave, but how long will that last.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/23/asia/...hnk/index.html

If you look back to the last major pandemic, 100 years ago, the virus came in 3 waves, coinciding roughly with spring, fall, and then spring again. The first wave was the lightest, the second wave was the worst and the third fell between those two. 50 million people died, 20 million in India alone.

[bluefox]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

I was watching news of what's going on in Europe, I think it was Czechoslovakia, that will fine you the equivalent of $1000 Canadian if you go out in public without a mask.

Not all policy is good policy.

[connect2source]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

I was watching news of what's going on in Europe, I think it was Czechoslovakia, that will fine you the equivalent of $1000 Canadian if you go out in public without a mask.

Czechoslovakia does not exist, became two countries with two separate names in 1993.

[cairnstone]

You would be surprised how many masks there is in the supply change. The problem is that they are being hoarded by the bigger monster in the room. We are in a just in time supply system and big groups have control over them but they dont end up in the end user in a timely manor. In the USA its worse as its a free market. And the USA Gov is in the middle of the supply chain. And have warehouses full of goods in time of need. But are under lock and key until emergency measures act comes into play and FEMA is given control. They have warehouse full of food, medical gear shelters etc. This is all policys that were starteda fter ww2 and became very inportant during the Cold war.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by connect2source

Czechoslovakia does not exist, became two countries with two separate names in 1993.

i went to high school in the 80s

anyway a source: https://news.expats.cz/coronavirus-i...-20000-crowns/

[osirisboy]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

I was watching news of what's going on in Europe, I think it was Czechoslovakia, that will fine you the equivalent of $1000 Canadian if you go out in public without a mask.

I agree with this. They tell us to behave as if we have the virus. Studies show that wearing a mask can reduce viral spread from a cough etc threefold. And many people are asymptomatic. So it’s not wearing a mask in order to prevent getting it. It’s wearing it to prevent spreading the virus. Especially in enclosed spaces