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  #9621  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2016, 2:42 AM
Octavian Octavian is offline
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SEPTA in Philadelphia is pulling all of its Silverliner Vs from service because of a manufacturing defect. I imagine this affects Denver also eventually.


http://billypenn.com/2016/07/03/why-...il-by-a-third/
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  #9622  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2016, 2:43 PM
Darius C Darius C is offline
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Originally Posted by Octavian View Post
SEPTA in Philadelphia is pulling all of its Silverliner Vs from service because of a manufacturing defect. I imagine this affects Denver also eventually.


http://billypenn.com/2016/07/03/why-...il-by-a-third/
This article says that RTD is looking into it. They are hoping to be OK because they operate a different model.

It's also interesting to note that SEPTA purchased 120 cars for 275 million, while RTD spent 300 million on 66 less powerful cars. Does anyone know what accounts for the difference in cost?
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  #9623  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2016, 6:51 PM
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Are they less powerful? I thought they were limited to 79 MPH by regulation only, but aer still designed to be able to max out at 120 MPH.
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  #9624  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2016, 5:17 AM
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Maybe the higher costs are due to the fact that RTD was the first to order the DMU model? SEPTA only orders EMU trains, and the Silverliner V was a fleet addition. RTD's is a fleet from scratch.

I finally got a chance to take the A Line train last weekend. Some of my observations as someone who grew up in Denver but hasn't lived here in five years:

>I landed in the A concourse and walked all the way to the train. That was nice. The signs I think were trying to direct me to walk to the train and the Westin through the check-in area, but I just walked in the middle of the Great Hall above security instead.

>The Westin looks nice from inside the terminal, though I still can never forgive it for covering it up from the outside. I also thought the plaza connecting level five of the terminal with the Westin/RTD station escalator looked really cheap. I don't know why, but the juxtaposition of the nice marble of the Jeppesen Terminal with the outdoor brickwork was really jarring. That metal wind sculpture thing is...interesting.

>I was really surprised how easy the ticket machines were to use. I remember the ones on the Light Rail system always being horrible, clunky messes that took way too many steps to print a simple roundtrip/one-way ticket for 1/2/3/4 zones. At DIA last weekend, maybe it helped that I knew the fare structure ahead of time, but I think it didn't take me more than two taps of the screen and a swipe of my credit card for me to get my ticket.

>I boarded the train on the platform and waited about five minutes before it departed. I tried to find real-time departure information on my phone while I waited, but the RTD website seems to only show schedules. There doesn't seem to be a quick, drop-down menu full of stations giving real time information, let alone any convenient information. Ehh.

>The train itself is nice, spacious, and comfortable, though by no means stylish. The two-car train was standing room only from Peoria to DUS. Granted, it was 5pm, and while some people looked like Rockies fans going to the game, they were far from being the majority. Overall, it looked like most people were just headed downtown for whatever reason. That's really exciting to see.

>The train was a little slow to start because of the single tracking. Then we're about to pull into the first stop. The automated announcement chimes: "Next stop: 61st and Pen-uh." What? Pen-uh??? I get that it's a computerized voice, but I was shocked that such a major project would mispronounce the name of the man who challenged his city to imagine something great. Mr. Peña deserves to have his name pronounced correctly on the train whose final destination is the project for which he is responsible.

>The 61st and Peña and 40th and Airport stops look pointless, other than for future development purposes. But again, from Peoria and beyond, it was a standing room-only train, with sizable numbers of people getting on and off at each stop.

>There was a fare inspector on board, and he checked my ticket at two different times on my trip. I was a little surprised to see him, and I remain skeptical that proof-of-payment with fare inspectors carrying handcuffs is more cost effective than a true faregate, pay-per-mile system. But whatever.

>Overall, the train seemed to move pretty fast other than at the intersections. We were sitting for a while waiting for the fences to go down and for the flagger to stop the intersection upon departing the Central Park Station. Why it's not simply called the Stapleton station is also beyond me.

>Arriving at Union Station is arriving at a city I don't recognize. Just as our train was disembarking, there was another flock of people waiting to get on. Walking from the CRT platform to the LRT platform, I looked around and realized that I couldn't recognize any of the buildings around me. I felt very proud of my hometown.

>I then hopped onto an E line train to DU, which left just as I got on. It was a fairly brisk transfer, but again — I knew what to look for. I don't think the transfer is that intuitive, and I don't think the signage talking about various "train tracks 1/2/3/4/etc" is all that helpful, especially for those who may be taking it for the first time.

>Despite it being now close to 6pm on a Friday, the 3-car E line train wasn't close to being full. What makes the A line so packed and the LRT trains fairly light, I don't know.

So what do I think overall? I've taken various airport trains all over the US and Europe, though the one with which I'm most familiar is San Francisco's BART, which I loved, despite most people passionately hating it. When BART works, it works very well. I had it down to a rhythm when I lived there. I would check my iBART app to get real-time departures, and when I saw a train departing in 12 minutes exactly, I could walk to the station, go through the fare gates, catch the train, and enjoy a one-seat, 65-minute ride to SFO. I don't think RTD quite matches in terms of efficiency or as a comprehensive network. I also think that RTD continues to fail when it comes to branding and user experience. "The University of Colorado A Line" is a mouthful and ridiculous as opposed to, say, a train simply saying "Union Station." In some places, it's Denver Union Station. In others, it's "The Denver Union Station." In some places, the system is called "RTD Commuter Rail," while even educated members of the public continue to call it "light rail," as Denverites have been calling it for decades.

But maybe BART isn't a fair comparison. After all, San Francisco is the second densest city in America, and BART is a 50-year-old system. Maybe I should compare it to where I came from — LAX, which is likely more than a decade away from having a desperately-needed people mover system from terminal to terminal, much less a rail connection to DTLA. Now that is an embarrassment for the largest city on the west coast.

When I think about that experience, and when I think about Denver, I think we still should be very proud of what we as a region have accomplished in spite of its shortfalls. Denver now has a reasonably high speed train connecting its airport to a bustling downtown that would have been incomprehensible even at the start of the Fastracks project. Sure, we may have cut corners and made some design mistakes, but I still see many places where the A line and the system as a whole could mature into a premier mode of transportation to the airport much like what the major metro areas of the U.S. currently enjoy.
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  #9625  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2016, 5:51 AM
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Civic Center now closed for renovations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RTD
Civic Center Station, one of the Regional Transportation District’s (RTD) busiest regional bus transit centers, is now closed for renovations. The closure will last approximately 12-18 months.

. . .

N Line Progress

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denver Post
Interstate 270 will undergo a full closure Friday night between the Vasquez Boulevard and Interstate 76 exits for the construction of the North Metro Rail Line Skyway Bridge deck.

Eastbound lanes will close at 10 p.m. and reopen by 4 a.m. Saturday. Westbound lanes will close at 11 p.m. and reopen by 6 a.m.

. . .

The Skyway Bridge is one of 13 bridges on the 18.5-mile North Metro Rail Line project and will eventually span two miles. The N-Line will run from Union Station through Commerce City, Northglenn and Thornton.
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  #9626  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2016, 4:18 AM
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Does anyone know how long there will be RTD staff at every level crossing on the A line. The poor girls all stand there grimacing with their fingers in their ears as the hooting and dinging train bumbles past.

I was pleased to see that the train does indeed flirt with 79mph on several stretches leaving DIA, although after Central Park it rarely exceeded 20mph all the way to DUS.

Not only cannot I not use Apple Pay to travel, I cannot even use it to buy my ticket. It displays the Near Field Communication symbol but gave me an error when trying to pay. I did note the ominous words on the RTD schedule that 'all times are approximate'. I am guessing the Swiss were not involved.

But I must admit I loved traveling on the train to and from the airport and after a month we now have working elevators on the 18th St Bridge. Happy to report that when they were repairing the doors they took the opportunity, it seems, to replenish the urine, heady stuff on a 100F day.
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  #9627  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2016, 5:19 PM
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Oh man the comments in this one are just awesome. It also sums up on how Streetsblog puts a 'unique' spin on everything:

http://denver.streetsblog.org/2016/0...on-bike-lanes/


From the comments:

Quote:
Thanks, David, for promoting my column and republishing at least selected parts of it. But you are way, way off base with the headline. As I've said many times, I'm in favor of more bike infrastructure in Denver; but I think the Broadway plan has flaws. You, however, are like Wayne LaPierre of the NRA. Anyone who disagrees with you is to be ridiculed and scorned. Even the designers of the Broadway plan have reservations about what's going to happen to the cars that use that route out of downtown Denver when two through lanes are given over to bikes and buses. You don't care. It doesn't matter to you because you think you can socially engineer Denver into bike utopia by ignoring reality. As I said, if this goes in as planned, there will be a political backlash from the driving public, it'll be removed, and bike infrastructure efforts will be set back years. Commuters are an essential part of Denver's economic success. Ignore them at your peril.
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  #9628  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2016, 5:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanD View Post
Oh man the comments in this one are just awesome. It also sums up on how Streetsblog puts a 'unique' spin on everything:

http://denver.streetsblog.org/2016/0...on-bike-lanes/


From the comments:
Sorry Ryan, but Westergaard is a hack who hates anything related to transportation alternatives. The comments have been entertaining though!
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  #9629  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2016, 5:36 PM
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Sorry Ryan, but Westergaard is a hack who hates anything related to transportation alternatives. The comments have been entertaining though!
I know he is. It's just interesting to see both sides at it. I'm not taking any sides with this one because we all know what most of us here on the forum want on Broadway. Not JUST bike lanes but an awesome transit combination, not sad peak hour bus lanes and perma bike-lanes like we're going to get everywhere.
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  #9630  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2016, 5:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanD View Post
I know he is. It's just interesting to see both sides at it. I'm not taking any sides with this one because we all know what most of us here on the forum want on Broadway. Not JUST bike lanes but an awesome transit combination, not sad peak hour bus lanes and perma bike-lanes like we're going to get everywhere.
Given your disdain for SBD (not unwarranted), I had assumed you were taking a side. Apologies.

As we have talked about before, transit IS part of the ongoing discussion, it just wasn't a main task within the study.
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  #9631  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2016, 1:32 AM
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Yeah TBH I pretty much stop reading when you guys start complaining about SBD. It's not that I don't agree that Sachs has tunnel vision, it's just that it's tiring.
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  #9632  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2016, 5:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darius C View Post
This article says that RTD is looking into it. They are hoping to be OK because they operate a different model.

It's also interesting to note that SEPTA purchased 120 cars for 275 million, while RTD spent 300 million on 66 less powerful cars. Does anyone know what accounts for the difference in cost?
Couple of things:

I could have sworn that I saw photos of the primary structural cars being built in Korea and then shipped over for final assembly in Philly. Those articles make it sound like Korean made parts are shipped over in boxes for assembly stateside along with American made parts.

Per the article:
Quote:
Cracks in the “equalizer beam” connecting the cars to the wheels caused the problem.

Where the problem originated — the trucks were constructed in Ohio by Columbus Castings, but the equalizer beams were made by a different company, and final assembly took place in South Philadelphia.
With respect to the cost and product differences I wonder if RTD didn't have to meet more rigorous standards since these were modified/enhanced at some point for those running along freight lines.
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  #9633  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2016, 6:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanD View Post
Oh man the comments in this one are just awesome. It also sums up on how Streetsblog puts a 'unique' spin on everything:

http://denver.streetsblog.org/2016/0...on-bike-lanes/


From the comments:
That's pretty funny and also interesting for the give and take.

I just happen to have read earlier Sach's critique of Mayor Michael Hancock "State of the City” address and thought how much fun I could have picking that apart. Spin is right but unique, hardly.

When it comes to agenda debating and propaganda I've honed my critical thinking skills quite well from listening to 20 years of Talk Radio - no, it's not a significant activity of mine but I fit enough of it in as I doze off and awaken along with Sports Talk to stay mentally sharp.

And I swear when I look to the right and then to the left it's hard to say which end of the spectrum is worse, which is more disgusting, arrogant and asinine. I'm happy to identify with Westergaard, at least in this discussion.

I just don't see Denver becoming any Utopian Urban Mecca anytime soon. I'm reminded of The Dirt's reference to building a Trumpian Wall around the state to keep people from moving here. Perhaps some of our urbanists should consider building one of those walls around the greater downtown if they feel it should exist only to meet their fondest desires.

It's not so much the basic ideals of urban thought that bothers, rather its the application and arrogance that grates. It's important to be practical and reasonable. That's all.
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  #9634  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2016, 6:33 AM
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2 random thoughts after commuting from Littleton to the federal center on light rail over the past few days.


1: There MUST be a better way than forcing anyone on the D line who needs to get to Union Station to wait 12 minutes for an E line transfer. There has to be. I understand these things are complicated, but considering the fact that the E Line runs every 15 minutes, a 12 minute transfer at Broadway & I25 is a slap in the face to any of the commuters coming from the southwest line.


2: The number of commuters who transfer from the E line to the west line at the auraria west station is remarkable. The W and E lines tend to arrive at almost the exact same time, resulting in a mad dash from northbound E line riders attempting to catch the westbound W line. Depending on the signal timing, sometimes the northbound E line misses the westbound W line by mere seconds. This seems like a massive waste of human time that could be fixed by very minor schedule adjustments...
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  #9635  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2016, 6:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesCO View Post
I finally got a chance to take the A Line train last weekend. Some of my observations as someone who grew up in Denver but hasn't lived here in five years:
Appreciate the comment; I really enjoy such personal experiences accounts and good observations.

Scottk - likewise for your own tales good and bad.
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  #9636  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2016, 2:08 AM
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Quote:
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DART is great at hitting "major destinations" that people don't actually go to every day, like airports, fairgrounds, and sports arenas. It's bad at hitting the kind of destinations that actually drive transit ridership, like dense neighborhoods and commercial main streets.
We're never going to significantly agree and that's OK. I actually feel somewhat freed to think outside the box by not being constrained by the conventional textbook wisdom that many of you are burdened by.

Speaking of places like airports "that people don't actually go to every day" - except for the ~35,000 people that work at DIA of course - how 'bout that 'A' line? For a line that is still trying to work out the kinks it seems to be fairly popular.

I happen to think that Denver has a distinct advantage over most cities from the fact that people metro-wide have transit access to the three main sports venues and four major professional sports teams. Like the system as a whole I expect this ridership to grow over time, especially for the Pepsi Center where crowds aren't as big for basketball, hockey, concerts and special events as for baseball and football. Do I care that people don't go there every day? No, I really don't. There's a value add here that goes beyond daily turnstile counts.

Let's look look at Nine Mile Station which is the 7th busiest out of 44 stations, not counting the new 'A' Line stations. This station is not the least bit charming. There's nothing very walkable about it nor is their any nearby retail - at least until Koelbel and Company and Mile High Development redevelop Regatta Plaza. However if you happen to have your bike with you, then the access to the beach at Cherry Creek Reservoir where... ahem, the scenery is delightful, is excellent. How can a station stuck alongside a freeway and wedged between it and 6-lane Parker Road and without any textbook features be so busy?
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  #9637  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2016, 2:29 AM
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How can a station stuck alongside a freeway and wedged between it and 6-lane Parker Road and without any textbook features be so busy?
Ummm, because everyone in SE Aurora drives there to commute downtown and it's a nexus of several intercity bus lines?

All the shit that Aurora has planned for around the station won't effect ridership. It's a station where people go to go somewhere else, not a station that they go to.
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  #9638  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2016, 3:53 AM
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Originally Posted by wong21fr View Post
Ummm, because everyone in SE Aurora drives there to commute downtown and it's a nexus of several intercity bus lines?

All the shit that Aurora has planned for around the station won't effect ridership. It's a station where people go to go somewhere else, not a station that they go to.
Thank you. My question was more rhetorical as I've stated previously why it does well. My bigger point though was that it seems to have none of the textbook qualities for a "proper" station. Don't underestimate the value of the ladies at the beach though. Just remember to bring your bike.
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  #9639  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2016, 3:59 AM
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Thank you. My question was more rhetorical as I've stated previously why it does well. My bigger point though was that it seems to have none of the textbook qualities for a "proper" station. Don't underestimate the value of the ladies at the beach though. Just remember to bring your bike.
Big-ass parking garage and situated along major arterials. What about it isn't a textbook proper station for a commuter system?

Cherry Creek Reservoir is a cesspool of human activity and lower middle class filth. It's only saving grace that it's about the only readily accessible public firing range in the Denver area.
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  #9640  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2016, 4:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wong21fr View Post
Big-ass parking garage and situated along major arterials. What about it isn't a textbook proper station for a commuter system?

Cherry Creek Reservoir is a cesspool of human activity and lower middle class filth. It's only saving grace that it's about the only readily accessible public firing range in the Denver area.
YES, yes, we are on the same page. It's a very car friendly kind of place as opposed to being pedestrian friendly with lots of cool retail; it's not a destination kind of place (unless biking to be beach is your thing).

So "lower middle class filth" is not your thang I take? Well the firing range is not my thang but I have driven by it.
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