Boise Transportation Thread

[Killa B]

It doesn't really matter what they do to 27th. People will still drive 27th because they always have and it's still there. It's kind of a weird phenomenon in this valley. When the Parkcenter East bridge was built it didn't automatically ease traffic on Warm Springs, and it still hasn't. People still go out of their way to use Warm Springs, even though Parkcenter is the easier and faster route. Same thing has happened with the Meridian/Main couplet. Rather than use the nice, wide, revamped Meridian, people still go out of their way to use Main southbound until they are forced to cross over. I think more than re-striping 27th will be required to switch driver habits.

[boisecynic]

Originally Posted by Killa B

It doesn't really matter what they do to 27th. People will still drive 27th because they always have and it's still there. It's kind of a weird phenomenon in this valley. When the Parkcenter East bridge was built it didn't automatically ease traffic on Warm Springs, and it still hasn't. People still go out of their way to use Warm Springs, even though Parkcenter is the easier and faster route. Same thing has happened with the Meridian/Main couplet. Rather than use the nice, wide, revamped Meridian, people still go out of their way to use Main southbound until they are forced to cross over. I think more than re-striping 27th will be required to switch driver habits.

More important than a mere lane restriping is the reconfiguration of the north bound left turn at Main. It already backs up. They need 2, hell maybe even 3 left turn bays. There needs to be a curb preventing left turns in and out of Maverick too.

They also need to remove the right turn only lane on inbound State St at 27th and allow it to be thru travel to 23rd like it used to be. That right turn bay is relatively recent anyway, only about 6 or 8 years old. Right turners will get sick of waiting behind cars wanting to continue straight.

Eventually, they should reconnect 23rd with River Street with a tunnel or bridge. That used to be the case before the Broadway Chinden Connector. The elimination of that connection was probably the biggest mistake of the connector design.

Remember it was the connector more than just about anything that created the current situation in west downtown particularly the Fairview/Main corridor.

The most destructive thing of all though was the 1974 widening of 27th. It used to be the same as 23rd. Everyone is gung-ho for bike lanes, but pavement is pavement and lack of setback on 27th is lack of setback. Why should cut through cars and bicyclists get preferential treatment over people WHO ACTUALLY LIVE THERE? I don't even get the need for bike lanes in suburban settings. Just make the sidewalk a little wider. Cycles and pedestrians share the greenbelt, why not the sidewalk?

After having driven WW Parkway a 100 times, the design really really bothers me. The Pleasanton to Fairview stretch did not need a center turn lane and/or should have been landscaped like the rest. The bike lanes should have been incorporated into the sidewalks and the right hand travel lane given over to parking on non rush hours and weekends. This could have saved some land in Esther Simplot park which will have to be dedicated to parking, a road and storm water catch basins. Think about it, when ES Park is done you could just park your car by that one pond north of IRS, throw your kayak/raft/canoe in the pond in less than 60 seconds and start paddling.

This would have required some serious outside the box thinking by ACHD which they are incapable of doing. Despite 5 years of money wasting public charettes we still ended up with a suburban road in downtown Boise.

[City Of Trees]

Originally Posted by Killa B

It doesn't really matter what they do to 27th. People will still drive 27th because they always have and it's still there. It's kind of a weird phenomenon in this valley. When the Parkcenter East bridge was built it didn't automatically ease traffic on Warm Springs, and it still hasn't. People still go out of their way to use Warm Springs, even though Parkcenter is the easier and faster route. Same thing has happened with the Meridian/Main couplet. Rather than use the nice, wide, revamped Meridian, people still go out of their way to use Main southbound until they are forced to cross over. I think more than re-striping 27th will be required to switch driver habits.

Lowering the speed limit to 25 and putting 4-way stops at Pleasanton, Stewart, and Jordan ought to do the trick.

Originally Posted by boisecynic

More important than a mere lane restriping is the reconfiguration of the north bound left turn at Main. It already backs up. They need 2, hell maybe even 3 left turn bays. There needs to be a curb preventing left turns in and out of Maverick too.

I have to think the restriping will force them to create at least two, as you can't have two thru lanes for a one lane (northbound) road ahead. I think you can also fit a third by converting one of the southbound lanes to a northbound left turn lane. Again, only one lane will be coming from above Main anyway.

Originally Posted by boisecynic

They also need to remove the right turn only lane on inbound State St at 27th and allow it to be thru travel to 23rd like it used to be. That right turn bay is relatively recent anyway, only about 6 or 8 years old. Right turners will get sick of waiting behind cars wanting to continue straight.

If/when State is widened to seven lanes west of 28th this will probably happen anyway.

Originally Posted by boisecynic

Eventually, they should reconnect 23rd with River Street with a tunnel or bridge. That used to be the case before the Broadway Chinden Connector. The elimination of that connection was probably the biggest mistake of the connector design.

Remember it was the connector more than just about anything that created the current situation in west downtown particularly the Fairview/Main corridor.

I like the River exit because it provides direct access to that neighborhood from the Connector. I've long felt that the screwup was not putting a corresponding onramp on the other side at where 17th St got cut off. It's an absolute pain for the Harrison/15th/16th/17th corridor to get to the Connector--you either have to backtrack all the way to 9th or go down all of Main Street at 35 MPH.

Originally Posted by boisecynic

The most destructive thing of all though was the 1974 widening of 27th. It used to be the same as 23rd. Everyone is gung-ho for bike lanes, but pavement is pavement and lack of setback on 27th is lack of setback. Why should cut through cars and bicyclists get preferential treatment over people WHO ACTUALLY LIVE THERE? I don't even get the need for bike lanes in suburban settings. Just make the sidewalk a little wider. Cycles and pedestrians share the greenbelt, why not the sidewalk?

Bikes on sidewalks are never ideal. In addition to having to dodge pedestrians, you have to watch out for inanimate stationary obstacles, as well as the curb cuts on the cross streets. Dedicated bike paths are the best, but when that's unfeasible, you should go with bike lanes on the road.

Originally Posted by boisecynic

After having driven WW Parkway a 100 times, the design really really bothers me. The Pleasanton to Fairview stretch did not need a center turn lane and/or should have been landscaped like the rest. The bike lanes should have been incorporated into the sidewalks and the right hand travel lane given over to parking on non rush hours and weekends. This could have saved some land in Esther Simplot park which will have to be dedicated to parking, a road and storm water catch basins. Think about it, when ES Park is done you could just park your car by that one pond north of IRS, throw your kayak/raft/canoe in the pond in less than 60 seconds and start paddling.

This would have required some serious outside the box thinking by ACHD which they are incapable of doing. Despite 5 years of money wasting public charettes we still ended up with a suburban road in downtown Boise.

I think the biggest mistake was how badly they screwed up the Pleasanton intersection. There should have been a full blown signal there where cars from the east and bikes from the west get in and off WWP in an orderly fashion. Instead we got a barrier in the middle of the intersection and a real awkward sharp turn for bikes to make--and having to stop and activate a HAWK signal.

[Sawtooth]

One of my friends rents a home directly on 27th and he said since Whitewater has opened that there is a definite drop in traffic especially in the evenings.

After 27th is re-striped to only be one lane in each direction, I feel that adding a few four way stops and maybe speed bumps like the bumps on Ellis Ave would deter people from using this street as an artery.

[rmack003]

Originally Posted by Killa B

It doesn't really matter what they do to 27th. People will still drive 27th because they always have and it's still there. It's kind of a weird phenomenon in this valley. When the Parkcenter East bridge was built it didn't automatically ease traffic on Warm Springs, and it still hasn't. People still go out of their way to use Warm Springs, even though Parkcenter is the easier and faster route. Same thing has happened with the Meridian/Main couplet. Rather than use the nice, wide, revamped Meridian, people still go out of their way to use Main southbound until they are forced to cross over. I think more than re-striping 27th will be required to switch driver habits.

If they were smart and really wanted to ease the traffic off of Warm Springs, they would raise the speed limit on Parkcenter to 45, like it should be, instead of 35.

[boisecynic]

City of Trees is right about curb cuts especially alleys being a big danger to placing bike lanes as part of sidewalks. I still maintain the wider the road the more intimidating it is to pedestrians, and bike lanes make the road wider. However, there are conflicting studies regarding safety of on street versus segregated bikeways. One important factor is, if you're going to ride the sidewalk, you must ride with the traffic flow. Drivers look left more than right.

The issue with 27th is more complicated than a quick glance might lead some to believe. Many of the lots along 27th can never be redeveloped within current zoning law. They're too small and/or have inadequate setback and inadequate parking. The bike lanes, I know a lot of Boiseans want and appreciate bike lanes, --- but at what cost? By that I mean keeping new/denser more attractive more affordable housing forever off the table? This is classic econ opportunity cost stuff.


Creative bike lanes. ACHD, City of Boise, come on, take it up a notch. DC and other cities often allow parking in right hand travel lanes at non rush hour. I'm pretty sure it's hard to argue that this concept is not a more efficient use of land and infrastructure than Boise's status quo. We could have our cake and eat it too with only slightly more creative thought. I'm asserting that on-street parking is good for inner cities. So somehow we need to figure out how to have both bike lanes and on street parking, in some areas at least. Let's face it, at night and on weekends most roadways get very little use, and considering their expense, why waste that land and infrastructure just to serve morning and evening rush?



source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segrega...cle_facilities

[Cottonwood]

http://www.ktvb.com/news/business/Bo...234268811.html

Boise Airport opens expanded parking garage
Troy Colson / KTVB

The addition gives travelers flying out of Boise nearly 800 new parking spaces, a critical addition leading up to the busiest travel times


http://www.ktvb.com/news/business/Bo...?gallery=y&c=y

[Hawk]

Downtown Boise's transit hub would go underground, if approved

PRELIMINARY DESIGN
Ahlquist says the preliminary design calls for one level of parking about 20 feet beneath the lot. It would also include entry and exit ramps from Main Street, space for 8 buses, and escalators descending from street level. The space above the transit center would be developed into a new building Ahlquist says he's still scouting prospective tenants......

Full article on the KTVB website:
http://www.ktvb.com/news/Downtown-Bo...234508451.html

[BoiseAirport]

Here's a quick and dirty comparison of Transit Centers across the country. Photos I found probably don't do the other transit centers justice:

Proposed Boise:



Spokane:



Tuscon:



Reno:



Oklahoma City:



Tulsa:



Milwaukee:





Albuquerque:

[boisecynic]

I like what Durham NC did. Check out the google maps link where I've located the bus station in relation to the Durham Bulls baseball park. Durham is very similar in size to Boise but the transit center is also adjacent an Amtrak Station. Notice there appear to be 16 bus stalls.

http://goo.gl/maps/d45WN

Hotlink pics from the architecture firm Freelon. Source page: http://www.freelon.com/portfolio/220/Other

[boisecynic]

You gotta love this:

[boisecynic]

Originally Posted by Sawtooth

One of my friends rents a home directly on 27th and he said since Whitewater has opened that there is a definite drop in traffic especially in the evenings.

After 27th is re-striped to only be one lane in each direction, I feel that adding a few four way stops and maybe speed bumps like the bumps on Ellis Ave would deter people from using this street as an artery.

Traffic count, north of Main, right around Pleasanton on Nov 20 or so = 11,250 as opposed 13,291 in Jan 2010 (recession skewed) and 13,989 in Sep 2011. Prior to that counts were hovering around 14,000 and as high as 16,000, iirc.

So, there has been roughly a 20% reduction on 27th after one month.

[boisecynic]

Americana to Main Greenbelt to be finished.

This is not a repeat from 1972.

Finally, the missing link on the south side of the river will be filled in. Keep in mind that the Greenbelt on the north side in that area was built from the early 70s to early 80s. Since then, millions have been spent to extend the Greenbelt to Lucky Peak in the east and beyond Eagle Road in the west.

To be fair, there are substantial engineering issues. The Americana tunnel is complete but tunnels for Fairview and Main need to be built. The Railroad Trestle may need a tunnel due to a large wetland at the north west side of the Trestle. So either they skirt the wet land, ramp up to the Trestle approach and back down to the Connector, or tunnel under the Trestle approach. I'm guessing they'll just ramp up to the Trestle approach. There's also a tight fit behind the private properties between Fairview and Main.

The Trestle approach is the spur path that goes to Orchard. You can see a partially complete ramp coming off the spur's north side heading toward the connector. See: http://goo.gl/maps/2nFSy

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2013/1...greenbelt.html

[isangpogi]

For anyone who pays attention to this, Alaska Airlines and Delta are engaged in a game of chicken. Delta has been ramping up their service from Alaska's home airport of Seattle. In recent months Delta has announced service from SEA to LAX, SFO, Las Vegas and San Diego among others. Alaska is retaliating by starting service from SLC (Delta Hub) to Portland, San Jose, LAX and San Diego.

What does this mean for Boise? Time will tell, but if the arms race continues we could maybe see Alaska start flying BOI-SLC and giving Delta a bit of much-needed competition on that route.

The difference between the two airlines' actions is that Delta is rapidly expanding their int'l destinations from SEA. Adding Hong Kong, Seoul & London-Heathrow. Delta needs to grab passengers from all over the west to fill the seats and must think they can do so more cost-effectively themselves than through their Alaska partnership. Alaska, on the other hand, seems to just be retaliating in SLC.

[BoiseAirport]

Originally Posted by isangpogi

For anyone who pays attention to this, Alaska Airlines and Delta are engaged in a game of chicken. Delta has been ramping up their service from Alaska's home airport of Seattle. In recent months Delta has announced service from SEA to LAX, SFO, Las Vegas and San Diego among others. Alaska is retaliating by starting service from SLC (Delta Hub) to Portland, San Jose, LAX and San Diego.

What does this mean for Boise? Time will tell, but if the arms race continues we could maybe see Alaska start flying BOI-SLC and giving Delta a bit of much-needed competition on that route.

The difference between the two airlines' actions is that Delta is rapidly expanding their int'l destinations from SEA. Adding Hong Kong, Seoul & London-Heathrow. Delta needs to grab passengers from all over the west to fill the seats and must think they can do so more cost-effectively themselves than through their Alaska partnership. Alaska, on the other hand, seems to just be retaliating in SLC.

I've been following this for a while and yeah it's fascinating to watch it play out. For Delta, out of Seattle it seems like Spokane/Boise could be the next logical additions - and as you say it wouldn't surprise me at all to see Alaska go head to head on BOI-SLC.

Potentially great news for Boise travelers. More competition = lower fares.

[BoiseAirport]

Great news!!

Effective Summer 2014, Southwest is going to fly a new nonstop flight from Boise to Chicago Midway. It'll be the first time Southwest has ever flown this route.

WN Flight 4305, BOI-MDW
Departs 1035, Arrives at 1500

WN Flight 804 MDW-BOI
Departs 1245 Arrives at 1520

Good to see them adding another nonstop.

[boi2socal]

Originally Posted by BoiseAirport

I've been following this for a while and yeah it's fascinating to watch it play out. For Delta, out of Seattle it seems like Spokane/Boise could be the next logical additions - and as you say it wouldn't surprise me at all to see Alaska go head to head on BOI-SLC.

Potentially great news for Boise travelers. More competition = lower fares.

I think everyone is blowing up this Alaska-Delta thing. For instance, other airlines fly/flew several of the routes Delta has recently started. Yet, this is an attack only on Alaska. I hope I'm right, because if Delta is trying to take out Alaska and is successful, that is not a good thing for Boise. No one else is going to fly Boise-Sacramento/San Jose/San Diego/Lewiston.

Not sure about BOI-SLC. I think Alaska is pretty tight on aircraft. I noticed BOI-SAN went to a turboprop which makes me suspect they have light loads and put the SkyWest jet elsewhere. I think that route is pushing it for a full Q400.

Good news from Southwest. Is this a seasonal route? Interesting to see a route back East.

[BoiseAirport]

Originally Posted by boi2socal

I think everyone is blowing up this Alaska-Delta thing. For instance, other airlines fly/flew several of the routes Delta has recently started. Yet, this is an attack only on Alaska. I hope I'm right, because if Delta is trying to take out Alaska and is successful, that is not a good thing for Boise. No one else is going to fly Boise-Sacramento/San Jose/San Diego/Lewiston.

Not sure about BOI-SLC. I think Alaska is pretty tight on aircraft. I noticed BOI-SAN went to a turboprop which makes me suspect they have light loads and put the SkyWest jet elsewhere. I think that route is pushing it for a full Q400.

Good news from Southwest. Is this a seasonal route? Interesting to see a route back East.

The rapid timing of Delta's additions, the fact that they're clearing building a Seattle hub in a very short timeframe targeting all of Alaska's most lucrative routes (particularly in the State of Alaska) indicate that these additions are more than just connecting the dots.

But Alaska has been the most financially successful airline over the last 10 years and they've built up a massive stockpile of cash exactly in preparation for something like this. The next few years are going to be interesting. While their financial performance may suffer from Delta's sudden expansion, Alaska has the capital, the market share, the management and the customer loyalty that they'll be all right even if Delta's Seattle hub is sustainable.

I agree that if not for Alaska, those markets would not be served by any of the major carriers.

[City Of Trees]

So, I took a trip to Seattle a couple weeks ago, and I owe a beer to whomever told me (it was likely Anthony) that the props on a Q400 weren't that bad after all. I was very surprised that it didn't annoy me.

That said, I still miss not having baggage fees on Northwest flights.

[isangpogi]

Originally Posted by BoiseAirport

Great news!!

Effective Summer 2014, Southwest is going to fly a new nonstop flight from Boise to Chicago Midway. It'll be the first time Southwest has ever flown this route.

WN Flight 4305, BOI-MDW
Departs 1035, Arrives at 1500

WN Flight 804 MDW-BOI
Departs 1245 Arrives at 1520

Good to see them adding another nonstop.

That's great news! What's your source BoiseAirport? I'd love to learn more!