Boise Transportation Thread

[boisecynic]

Originally Posted by Hawk

Just got back from riding the Greenbelt. Took Capital Blvd. instead 8th. It's not as convenient as exciting onto 8th, but having the buffered bike lane was a plus!.... bit disappointed that the buffered lanes ended at Front instead of Jefferson since they aren't finished installing them.

I'll get out there this weekend and try out the whole network. I can see Capitol working. Capitol is very different from Idaho/Main. Capitol's biggest problem is the left turn at Front and the light at University. Sawtooth is right, traffic on Capitol is too fast but that's because of the freeway like stretch from University to River.

16th is another oddball. Because of the way lights are timed and being downhill motorists step on it from State trying to make the light at Fairview/Main. I've done it myself, found myself doing 40 to 45 going with the flow.

Fort St is another good issue. I could see giving Fort bike lanes and creating the 5th/6th or 3rd/4th corridor to BSU that I already mentioned. Then a traffic circle or some kind of reconfiguration where State, 1st and Fort all merge. There's definitely the land to do this. Reserve and Jefferson are issues here to. Instead of closing Jefferson I say close Reserve and shunt traffic down Ave C to Jefferson and Warm Springs. Upzone the affected properties to 5C to compensate the affected owners. Make Warm Springs/Broadway/Idaho/Main a traffic circle with Warm Springs connecting to Idaho/Main underground.

[City Of Trees]

I just got back from a ride trying out the new lanes. They're only 2/3rds of the way done--Capitol and Main are finished, but nothing on Idaho yet. However, they had the real nastygram no parking towaway signs set up, so my guess is that they're going to do it tomorrow.

I'll save my full comments until the Idaho lane is done (I hope it'll be done by Friday evening rush hour--I'll get a good feel for its operation then), but here are some teasers for you right now:
--I like where the Capitol lane starts--and there's an opportunity to make it even better in the future.
--The Main lane mostly worked like clockwork, no problems there--except for the end.
--The hook turn bike boxes are awesome, that's a technique I've long used in commute biking that's really helpful.
--That said, the bike boxes need to be used in the right places--and there's one place in particular where I feel it'll be a problem.

[Cottonwood]

Originally Posted by City Of Trees

I just got back from a ride trying out the new lanes. They're only 2/3rds of the way done--Capitol and Main are finished, but nothing on Idaho yet. However, they had the real nastygram no parking towaway signs set up, so my guess is that they're going to do it tomorrow.

I'll save my full comments until the Idaho lane is done (I hope it'll be done by Friday evening rush hour--I'll get a good feel for its operation then), but here are some teasers for you right now:
--I like where the Capitol lane starts--and there's an opportunity to make it even better in the future.
--The Main lane mostly worked like clockwork, no problems there--except for the end.
--The hook turn bike boxes are awesome, that's a technique I've long used in commute biking that's really helpful.
--That said, the bike boxes need to be used in the right places--and there's one place in particular where I feel it'll be a problem.

I drove down Main from 16th to 9th during lunch and noticed (correct me if I am wrong because I was in the far right lane)that none of the street parking on the north side was taken away, along most of the stretch the buffered bike lane was next to the sidewalk and the parking is now in one of the driving lanes and it looked like the parking is still next to the sidewalk beyond 11th and the bike lane shifts into one of the previous driving lanes. I found that interesting and refreshing because I thought so many people and businesses were concerned about street parking going away.

Traffic seemed to move smoothly with only two auto lanes instead of three, but it was lunch and not rush hour...there definitely were more pedestrians, skate boarders, and cyclists then autos at that time of the day.


City Of Trees, do you know why the far left lane on Capitol between Front and Idaho is blocked off to traffic? Seems strange since the bike lane is on the right side. Two lanes on Capitol through that stretch is not enough to handle traffic. Hopefully the far left lane closure is temporary.

[City Of Trees]

Originally Posted by Cottonwood

I drove down Main from 16th to 9th during lunch and noticed (correct me if I am wrong because I was in the far right lane)that none of the street parking on the north side was taken away, along most of the stretch the bike lane was next to the sidewalk and the parking is now in one of the driving lanes and it looked like the parking is still next to the sidewalk beyond 11th and the bike lane shifts into one of the previous driving lanes. I found that interesting and refreshing because I thought so many people and businesses were concerned about street parking going away.

Traffic seemed to move smoothly with only two auto lanes instead of three, but it was lunch and not rush hour...there definitely were more pedestrians, skate boarders, and cyclists then autos at that time of the day.

This is correct. However, street parking will be removed east of 5th, because there is no third lane there to use for the bike lane.

As far as Main going smoothly, keep in mind that that street has been essentially two lanes between 9th and Capitol for a long time due to the Zions Bank construction--and once again with the current Owyhee Plaza renovation. Things felt more uneasy on Capitol, especially north of Front, but I'll give it another feel next time.

[City Of Trees]

Originally Posted by Cottonwood

City Of Trees, do you know why the far left lane on Capitol between Front and Idaho is blocked off to traffic? Seems strange since the bike lane is on the right side. Two lanes on Capitol through that stretch is not enough to handle traffic. Hopefully the far left lane closure is temporary.

I have no clue, and yes, I thought that was odd and a bad move as well. Maybe to reserve it for the future Gardner transit center?

[boisecynic]

Just got back from a trial bike run. Went east on Main from 17th to 8th. LOL at the cyclist bombing down 16th turning onto Main who missed the bike lane or didn't even know it was there and then rode in the right lane of Main. What up with that?

Then 8th to Fulton. So on to Capitol via Fulton and up to Myrtle, the right turn from Capitol to Myrtle-- not feeling the love from motorists there. I didn't check, is that one of the no right on red intersections? Because cars were turning right on red. Doubled back up Capitol the wrong way-- are they going to ticket for that? Because it's kind of cool, didn't have to cross the river on the rough 8th St Trestle. And that's when my rear derailleur cable broke. Had to limp home with a 3-speed, but not before discovering Idaho is not done yet.

In summary, due to the lights/intersections/cars/pedestrians/bikes on Main, imo eastbound Grove St is still safer and faster if you don't need to go past 8th or even 5/6th. Capitol was useful but watch out for right hooks at Myrtle and Main. And what about riding the wrong way-- enforced or not?

CoT is right about the parking. It's not a bad setup and you don't have to worry about getting doored on Main. I thought some cyclists were against parking outboard of bike lanes?

[BoiseAirport]

I wish I could try out the new bike lanes. My bike was stolen because idiot me didn't lock it right.

I digging the new layout on Capitol Blvd, just from a pedestrian standpoint. Doesn't seem as hectic. I've walked up and down it a few times in the morning and afternoon, and I haven't noticed any more congestion but then again I don't have a large sample size. Same thing from my window looking on Main.

Am I wrong or do both the bike lanes and car lanes seem really wide? Like wider than they need to be? I swear when I was up in Seattle the lanes for both were narrower. I wonder if it'd be possible to squeeze an extra lane in there by slightly reducing the width of all lanes. If nothing else maybe you could expand the sidewalks. Granted, I might be wrong but it looks like there's wasted space.

[City Of Trees]

Originally Posted by BoiseAirport

Am I wrong or do both the bike lanes and car lanes seem really wide? Like wider than they need to be? I swear when I was up in Seattle the lanes for both were narrower. I wonder if it'd be possible to squeeze an extra lane in there by slightly reducing the width of all lanes. If nothing else maybe you could expand the sidewalks. Granted, I might be wrong but it looks like there's wasted space.

Remember, there needs to be space for passenger-side doors to open when the bike lane is between the curb and a lane of parking. Also, if these lanes are going to get traction on busy roads like this, a little bit of extra room is appreciated.

[Cottonwood]

Is that car parked on the bike box from 2C?



http://www.boiseweekly.com/CityDesk/...-idaho-streets

New Bike Lanes And Boxes Make Debut on Capitol Blvd., Main And Idaho Streets

Posted by Harrison Berry on Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 10:53 AM



ACHD
The right way: A vehicle correctly stopped before a bike box.






ACHD
The wrong way: A vehicle incorrectly at rest in the middle of a bike box.

Bike boxes have been used in Portland, Ore., Chicago and New York City as a way to reduce car vs. bike accidents. Putting cyclists in front of cars at intersections gives them greater visibility where turning cars and direction changes can create hazards.

[City Of Trees]

Originally Posted by Cottonwood

Is that car parked on the bike box from 2C?

How many other metros have county rivalries like we do?

[BoiseAirport]

Originally Posted by City Of Trees

Remember, there needs to be space for passenger-side doors to open when the bike lane is between the curb and a lane of parking. Also, if these lanes are going to get traction on busy roads like this, a little bit of extra room is appreciated.

Ah, that makes sense.

[boi2socal]

Originally Posted by City Of Trees

How many other metros have county rivalries like we do?

Most do.

[City Of Trees]

Just got back from the Idaho bike lane. There's a huge problem right in the middle--no lane between the busiest part from Capitol to 9th. I knew the bus mall was going to cause a problem.

I'll be putting together all my thoughts on this tonight or some time tomorrow, stay tuned.

[Hawk]

IDAHO STATESMAN
The stretch between Main and Bannock streets will have street-side parking and two lanes designed for cars and bikes to share.

Capital City Development Corporation, Boise’s urban renewal agency and owner of 8th Street between Main and Bannock, is joining the trend of converting Downtown streets from one-ways to two-ways.

Ada County Highway District, which maintains most of the streets in Boise, already has worked out a plan with the city’s government to convert stretches of 3rd, 4th, 11th, 12th, 13th and 14th streets. Parts of 5th and 6th streets could be added to that list. Monday, the URA’s board of commissioners went against its staff’s recommendation and voted to turn its section of 8th Street into a two-way road. Staff members had recommended keeping 8th Street as a one-way but making its direction of travel northbound instead of the current southbound.

Supporters say two-way conversions are better for retail shops like the ones along 8th Street Downtown because they slow traffic and make it easier to drive to the shops

Read more here: http://www.idahostatesman.com/2014/0...#storylink=cpy

Once again someone has had the idea of messing with 8th st, and not in a good way this time. instead of Pedestrian only stretch of road (which it should be between Main and Bannock) they will be changing it to two-way, shared with bikes.
While I was a little annoyed and reading the Comments that people had written on the statesman, I came across the third comment which had posted a link to a Boise Guardian Article. By someone who looks a bit familiar name wise, although I don't think it was from our Boisecynic. I could be wrong though. But, the article made a good point:

BOISE GUARDIAN
...one of our relevant local planning agencies, in the interest of fair debate, should pay for Robert Bruegmann to come to Boise and talk about the plan. Bruegmann has credentials at least equal to Speck. Bruegmann is the University Distinguished Professor of Art History, Architecture, and Urban Planning at the University of Illinois at Chicago. He is the author of Sprawl: A Compact History (2005) and The Architecture of Harry Weese (forthcoming, 2010)....

Here's the link to the Full Boise Guardian article:
http://boiseguardian.com/2014/04/08/...econd-opinion/

[boisecynic]

Originally Posted by Hawk

Once again someone has had the idea of messing with 8th st,...

That was me on the Boiseguardian. And Dave was fair enough to give me a headlining guest opinion, despite the fact I've taken an opposing viewpoint over there about 90% of the time over the years. I wrote about Speck and Bruegmann on SSP too, last summer when Speck came to town. A couple of SSPers went, but I didn't make it.

About a 2-way 8th, WHY? I'm confused. On the one hand, new urbanists seem to want to reduce automobile congestion. I'm cool with that. But making 8th and other streets 2-way only leads to congestion by creating left turn conflicts for other motorists and pedestrians and bicycles.

Everyone jaywalks on 8th between Bannock and Main, and BPD obviously has been instructed not to enforce jaywalking laws. I'm cool with this too. But with cars and bikes, a jaywalker is wise to have his/her head on a swivel. And now they want to have a 2nd lane of cars traveling a different direction? Besides being a bit more dangerous it will probably reduce the ease of sitting and waiting for a passenger to quickly run into a store or for a driver to simply drop off a passenger which I see quite a bit.

Making 8th 2-way from Bannock to State would make sense. There's very little traffic on that stretch.

Here's the stand alone thread I created in June last year: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=206247

Supporters say two-way conversions are better for retail shops ...

Who? Come on CCDC, name one. That generic phrase "supporters say" is what's known as weasel words and I thought CCDC was above that kind of disingenuous speech.

[BoiseAirport]

United is adding a third daily roundtrip between Boise and Los Angeles for Sept-Oct.

BOI-LAX

UA 6498; Dept: 1025, Arrive: 1133; CRJ-200
UA 6461; Dept: 1610, Arrive: 1718; CRJ-200*
UA 5630; Dept: 2015, Arrive: 2129; CRJ-200

LAX-BOI

UA 6506; Dept: 0815, Arrive: 1122; CRJ-200
UA 6461; Dept: 1230, Arrive: 1537; CRJ-200*
UA 5247; Dept: 1635, Arrive: 1936; CRJ-200

*New flight

http://boisetopia.com/?p=843

[BoiseAirport]

Busy day today for air service news! Today, Alaska Airlines announced an additional daily roundtrip flight between Boise and Seattle, beginning March 2015.

BOI-SEA

AS 2263; Dept: 0640, Arrive: 0725; Bombardier Q400
AS 2003; Dept: 0800, Arrive: 0845; Bombardier Q400*
AS 2391; Dept: 0920, Arrive: 1000; Bombardier Q400
AS 2245; Dept: 1100, Arrive: 1138; Bombardier Q400
AS 2167; Dept: 1410, Arrive: 1445; Bombardier Q400
AS 2133; Dept: 1515, Arrive: 1554; Bombardier Q400
AS 2247; Dept: 1710, Arrive: 1750; Bombardier Q400
AS 2535; Dept: 1930, Arrive: 2010; Bombardier Q400
AS 2399; Dept: 2105, Arrive: 2145; Bombardier Q400

SEA-BOI

AS 2136; Dept: 0710, Arrive: 0935; Bombardier Q400
AS 2144; Dept: 0800, Arrive: 1025; Bombardier Q400
AS 2390; Dept: 1010, Arrive: 1235; Bombardier Q400
AS 2148; Dept: 1215, Arrive: 1440; Bombardier Q400
AS 2426; Dept: 1415, Arrive: 1640; Bombardier Q400
AS 2140; Dept: 1635, Arrive: 1859; Bombardier Q400
AS 2366; Dept: 1855, Arrive: 2119; Bombardier Q400
AS 2004; Dept: 2000, Arrive: 2225; Bombardier Q400*
AS 2268; Dept: 2135, Arrive: 2359; Bombardier Q400

*New Flight

http://boisetopia.com/?p=847

[boi2socal]

Originally Posted by BoiseAirport

United is adding a third daily roundtrip between Boise and Los Angeles for Sept-Oct.

BOI-LAX

UA 6498; Dept: 1025, Arrive: 1133; CRJ-200
UA 6461; Dept: 1610, Arrive: 1718; CRJ-200*
UA 5630; Dept: 2015, Arrive: 2129; CRJ-200

LAX-BOI

UA 6506; Dept: 0815, Arrive: 1122; CRJ-200
UA 6461; Dept: 1230, Arrive: 1537; CRJ-200*
UA 5247; Dept: 1635, Arrive: 1936; CRJ-200

*New flight

http://boisetopia.com/?p=843

Surprising with all the other routes United has been cutting (not at BOI) and Delta soon to be flying the route. Good schedule but I still won't fly United.

[matt3006]

I was on State st. (hwy 44) earlier today and it appears they are paving the intersection for the CVE and hwy44 tonight , looks like it will be open for traffic to Chinden soon.

[Boiseguy]

Originally Posted by matt3006

I was on State st. (hwy 44) earlier today and it appears they are paving the intersection for the CVE and hwy44 tonight , looks like it will be open for traffic to Chinden soon.

this central valley expressway will better connect the valley for sure.. one thing that astonishes me though is they are building a 4 lane divided highway.. and by the time it's open and ready to go.. traffic and congestion will require it to be 6 lanes or 8…. so while the project will be vital to connecting the valley.. once again.. there's a total lack of planning appropriately… I just hope that the future phases of this are taken a better look at…if anything that portion of this project needs to be at least 6 lanes from chinden to I-84.. because that essentially will be where nampa meets meridian and the amount of development that will blow up there will require it…

I wish leaders in idaho would get a little more ahead of the curve when it comes to these things…. if you're going to do it.. do it right.. so we don't end up with a transportation system that's constantly under construction to keep up with growth...