PHILADELPHIA | W Hotel & Element by Westin | 617 FT | 51 FLOORS

[Londonee]

The glass color and pattern - gray horizontal stripes in between each floor - are waaaaayyyyy too similar to RATR. Why would the architect choose an almost identical color and pattern to a building that's 30 feet away?

[skyscraper]

Originally Posted by Londonee

The glass color and pattern - gray horizontal stripes in between each floor - are waaaaayyyyy too similar to RATR. Why would the architect choose an almost identical color and pattern to a building that's 30 feet away?

To be "contextual."
Blech. I hate that term, but that's why they (and by they, I mean we, and by we, I mean architects) do things like that.
I am of the school of thought that buildings need to have their own identities and not be so concerned about what surrounding buildings look like. There is a place for context, but the design of the building should not be subservient to it.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by skyscraper

To be "contextual."
Blech. I hate that term, but that's why they (and by they, I mean we, and by we, I mean architects) do things like that.
I am of the school of thought that buildings need to have their own identities and not be so concerned about what surrounding buildings look like. There is a place for context, but the design of the building should not be subservient to it.

Contextual I view as more of a nod to what's adjacent/nearby in terms of materials, geometry (see the curved corner at East Market), and scale - but the building should still stand on its own merit and design principle. And often "context" works to bring cohesion across generations of buildings/designs and materials.

In this case, these are built within a decade of one another - and the glass look and design is soooo close that it borderlines on plagiarism.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by Londonee

The glass color and pattern - gray horizontal stripes in between each floor - are waaaaayyyyy too similar to RATR. Why would the architect choose an almost identical color and pattern to a building that's 30 feet away?

I think that the glass is brighter, but we can't tell because the shadows of the buildings on the south side are making it look darker. Look at what glass is on the North face; it's a brighter color.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by blart

Saturday, 4/21

Case in point. This glass is clearly brighter. I agree that it is quite similar, but I'm gonna reserve my judgements until completion.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Case in point. This glass is clearly brighter. I agree that it is quite similar, but I'm gonna reserve my judgements until completion.

That's like saying "is that white, or cream?" And there's more to a building's design and feel than glass color. The glass panel sizes, layout and shape as well as the look, width and color of the gray horizontal banding between floors is really, really similar (not saying exact).

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by Londonee

That's like saying "is that white, or cream?" And there's more to a building's design and feel than glass color. The glass panel sizes, layout and shape as well as the look, width and color of the gray horizontal banding between floors is really, really similar (not saying exact).

In which case I would have to ask you to wait until this is finished. I think that they play off of each other, but the W is far from finished. We still have to see how the setbacks and lighting schemes come into play.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

In which case I would have to ask you to wait until this is finished. I think that they play off of each other, but the W is far from finished. We still have to see how the setbacks and lighting schemes come into play.

I'm talking about observationally at street level, obviously at night and 600 feet up these buildings will distinguish themselves.

From 30 seconds ago. Imagine the lower 2 finished floors of 'W' extended upwards.

[skyscraper]

Originally Posted by Londonee

Contextual I view as more of a nod to what's adjacent/nearby in terms of materials, geometry (see the curved corner at East Market), and scale - but the building should still stand on its own merit and design principle. And often "context" works to bring cohesion across generations of buildings/designs and materials.

In this case, these are built within a decade of one another - and the glass look and design is soooo close that it borderlines on plagiarism.

the curved corner is a great example of what I hate about it. giving surroundings a "nod" is a bunch of crap; the building is not another PSFS building just because it has that curve, so why try to duplicate it? if anything ti cheapens the original.

[Marcos]

you're never going to be looking at the faces of these buildings side by side anyway so who cares, we're talking about the slim east/west views really that may resemble one another.

But I'm with the wait'll it's done before bitching crowd anyway, it's been my experience they always look their best when the fully complete vision can be appreciated both standing alone and in the context of its neighbors

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

In which case I would have to ask you to wait until this is finished. I think that they play off of each other, but the W is far from finished. We still have to see how the setbacks and lighting schemes come into play.

Originally Posted by Marcos

you're never going to be looking at the faces of these buildings side by side anyway so who cares, we're talking about the slim east/west views really that may resemble one another.

But I'm with the wait'll it's done before bitching crowd anyway, it's been my experience they always look their best when the fully complete vision can be appreciated both standing alone and in the context of its neighbors

Well, I own property at 15th and Chestnut... so I'll see the view I posted quite a bit. For the record, I love the development (and I certainly have more stakes than someone from West Chester) and am excited about what it's bringing to the city - and calling out the architect for almost identical cladding to a building 30 feet away strikes me as totally fair criticism/discussion topic on a skyscraper forum.

[Marcos]

Originally Posted by Marcos

you're never going to be looking at the faces of these buildings side by side anyway so who cares, we're talking about the slim east/west views really that may resemble one another.

But in my less relevant opinion due to my tenuous geographical proximity to the W and lack of a real property interest within eyeshot of the same I'm with the wait'll it's done before bitching crowd anyway, it's been my experience they always look their best when the fully complete vision can be appreciated both standing alone and in the context of its neighbors

Originally Posted by Londonee

Well, I own property at 15th and Chestnut... so I'll see the view I posted quite a bit. For the record, I love the development (and I certainly have more stakes than someone from West Chester) and am excited about what it's bringing to the city - and calling out the architect for almost identical cladding to a building 30 feet away strikes me as totally fair criticism/discussion topic on a skyscraper forum.

fixed it for you

[jsbrook]

I also dislike the similarity in glass and certain design elements. However, the bases of he W and Ritz (first 5 floors or more) are very different. That is the street level experience most will have.

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by skyscraper

the curved corner is a great example of what I hate about it. giving surroundings a "nod" is a bunch of crap; the building is not another PSFS building just because it has that curve, so why try to duplicate it? if anything ti cheapens the original.

In this case I think this is a great example of successful use of context. The PSFS building is great in many ways, one being the curved corner. But not just because it's curved, but the whole package, windows, scale and how it ties the two street frontages together. I believe Market East is just tipping its hat to that one aspect of the PSFS building but using the form in it's own unique way. And its certainly not copying anything. The curved corner works on both corners of the street. The curved corner very much lends itself to the LED signage. Which do you like more on the Market East project, the curved corners at 12th St. or the square corners at 11th?

[blenfest]

The intent was to make the glazing as blue as possible. Because the building will be LEED certified the glazing choices were all dark and very limited. The only option to really make it blue was to go with mirrored glass and I'm not sure that would have been a good choice but even if it was it wasn't in the budget.

[that isn't terrible]

4/26/18 - view of the W rising above RATR from the Eastern Tower project

(sorry, didn't zoom in with the phone camera)

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by blenfest

The intent was to make the glazing as blue as possible. Because the building will be LEED certified the glazing choices were all dark and very limited. The only option to really make it blue was to go with mirrored glass and I'm not sure that would have been a good choice but even if it was it wasn't in the budget.

Thanks for the insight Mr. Lenfest! This is the stage where we all nitpick about the unfinished product but we are all excited about the prospect of the completed tower and that amazing crown.





(I thought only Cro Burnham's comments could summon him?)

[JohnIII]

The building is getting up there; its just about topped out. The glass exterior seems really slow. I wonder if the exterior will be finished by the time it gets cold again in October.

[Mr Saturn64]

Originally Posted by JohnIII

The building is getting up there; its just about topped out. The glass exterior seems really slow. I wonder if the exterior will be finished by the time it gets cold again in October.

It probably will. It is still scheduled for a 2018 opening, right?

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by blenfest

The intent was to make the glazing as blue as possible. Because the building will be LEED certified the glazing choices were all dark and very limited. The only option to really make it blue was to go with mirrored glass and I'm not sure that would have been a good choice but even if it was it wasn't in the budget.

It looks fine. Great addition to the block. Nice job. I hope it further galvanizes turnover and improvement across the street and on the 1500 block of Chestnut.