Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[SaskScraper]

Originally Posted by q12

Halifax population 2018: 444,000
Source

Maritimes Population: 1,883,849
Saskatchewan: 1,162,062


According to Google maps to Shannon Park in Dartmouth.

Sydney 4 h
Fredericton 3 h 45 min
Saint John 3 h 30 min
Charlottetown 3 h 15 min
Moncton 2 h 15 min

I can confirm these times as I've driven these routes.

Difference between the two circles above is that it's a 3 hour drive to the epicenter of the Saskatchewan circle for 100% of population in that circle.

But it's more than a 4 hour drive to epicenter of the Maritimes circle. The Maritime circle should but doesn't represent about people in same 3 hour drive.

ie Sydney to Halifax shows as 4hours & 15 mins on Google Maps if you don't stop for gas or a pee break, add another hour to top of Cape Breton highlands at top of circle.

PEI is over 3 & a half hour drive from everywhere in that Province to Halifax.
Plus a $50 toll on the bridge. I doubt there will be many PEIslanders getting season tickets to cheer on a Halifax CFL team.

Most of New Brunswick's population is at least 4 hours drive from Halifax.

Driving in the Maritimes, isn't nearly as direct as driving on The Prairies no matter how you draw a circle.

Even though CFL games that had been hosted in the Maritimes had spectator exhaustion by the end of it & ended up not selling out the last time CFL game that went to Moncton, & Even though you can't bottle something like Saskatchewan has with Rider Nation. I still hope that the region can pull it off & Halifax does get a team

hip hip hurray for 'Maritime Schooners' CFL team

[elly63]

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

Even though you can't bottle something like Saskatchewan has with Rider Nation.

I don't know about that, I don't know if that will happen but the potential is there. Maritimers are a clannish lot when they meet away from home. Market them against the world (the rest of the CFL) and who knows what the outcome might be.

[q12]

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

ie Sydney to Halifax shows as 4hours & 15 mins on Google Maps if you don't stop for gas or a pee break, add another hour to top of Cape Breton highlands at top of circle.

I almost spit the coffee out of my mouth on this comment, have you been to the Highlands, not exactly populated....

PEI is over 3 & a half hour drive from everywhere in that Province to Halifax.

No it's not Summerside is 3 hours, Charlottetown is 3 hours and 15 mins. I've driven both.

Most of New Brunswick's population is at least 4 hours drive from Halifax.

What the hell are you talking about I just gave you driving times from the 3 largest N.B. cities all under 4 hours, again I have driven these routes and can confirm.

Driving in the Maritimes, isn't nearly as direct as driving on The Prairies no matter how you draw a circle.

Maritimes actually have a network of controlled access freeways (U.S. interstate style), with proper interchanges unlike Saskatchewan.

Fact:

The Maritimes have a bigger population in a smaller footprint than Saskatchewan. Halifax is a larger city than any city in Saskatchewan.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by q12

Maritimes actually have a network of controlled access freeways (U.S. interstate style), with proper interchanges unlike Saskatchewan.

These discussions are often weird in that people talk about cities like Charlottetown or Fredericton but they forget the satellite towns along the highways around Halifax. Truro CA is around 50,000 compared to 70,000 in Charlottetown, but nobody mentions Truro. Google Maps says that downtown Truro is 58 minutes from Shannon Park. Rural Kings County NS is actually more densely populated than the Fredericton CA and has 60,000 people. These places are all 1 hour from Shannon Park along major highways. Hants is quasi-Halifax suburbs (~50% commuters) and the Lunenburg/Bridgewater area is another blob of 50,000 or so people about an hour away.

The population with an hour or so of Shannon Park is approximately 650,000, while the population within 30 minutes is 450,000 or so. This will be the bread and butter for ticket sales, not people living up in Meat Cove. If you look closely at that density map, these areas are the darker red blob in the middle of NS. 1/3 of the population of the Maritimes lives in that area.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Staying on the Halifax front:



http://canpl.ca/video/welcome-to-the...x-wanderers-fc

Part of the allure is its simplicity, which, in many ways, lends itself to the 6,500-seat Wanderers Grounds becoming quite boisterous on CPL Matchdays.

“It’s been one of our key focus points, to create an intimate and unique venue that’s soccer specific,” Martin said of a stadium that’s just a short distance from the city’s picturesque Harbour.

Can they squeeze another ten thousand seats on to that property?

This is what I would prefer: a cozy, charming little stadium, minimal investment (at first), a university football feel, etc. Start small, let it grow...

[q12]

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce

Can they squeeze another ten thousand seats on to that property?

This is what I would prefer: a cozy, charming little stadium, minimal investment (at first), a university football feel, etc.

Not without expropriating the Museum of Natural History next to it.

[q12]

Must watch interview with Anthony Leblanc today.

https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1527658

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce

Can they squeeze another ten thousand seats on to that property?

This is what I would prefer: a cozy, charming little stadium, minimal investment (at first), a university football feel, etc. Start small, let it grow...

I imagine the limit to Wanderers is 10K or so. I can't imagine council would let them have any more on the property but you never know. Feasibly I believe q12 is correct, the museum gets in the way of any further expansion beyond corner-filling and larger end stands.

[MonctonRad]

I would keep the Wanderers Grounds as a cozy soccer specific stadium with 10,000 seats or so.

[Dalreg]

Originally Posted by q12

What the hell are you talking about I just gave you driving times from the 3 largest N.B. cities all under 4 hours, again I have driven these routes and can confirm.

Google Maps, quotes Saint John to Halifax by road at 4 hours 5 minutes.
Fredericton to Halifax, 4 hours 23 minutes.
Moncton to Halifax, 2 hours 40 minutes.

So I would take these numbers over your "confirmed" numbers any day.

So what the hell are you talking about???

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Dalreg

Google Maps, quotes Saint John to Halifax by road at 4 hours 5 minutes.
Fredericton to Halifax, 4 hours 23 minutes.
Moncton to Halifax, 2 hours 40 minutes.

So I would take these numbers over your "confirmed" numbers any day.

So what the hell are you talking about???

Those are probably city centre to city centre times.

Regardless, the times q12 posted would have been optimal freeway driving at 120 km/hr with no coffee or pee breaks.

I can drive from my home in NW Moncton to Dartmoth Crossing in about 2 hours 20 minutes. I invariably stop for gas and coffee along the way. Actual drive time is closer to 2 hours 40 minutes.

And Moncton is the closest major city in the Maritimes to Halifax.

[Nouvellecosse]

It takes me 2 hours to go from my place in Dartmouth (near the highway) to the Amherst, and about 45 min from Amherst to the Champlain place area. I'm pretty sure it took me longer to get to Saint John from Amherst than it does Amherst to Moncton, so definitely much more than 4:05. But I almost never exceed 110km/h (usually more like 100) for fuel efficiency reasons. But 90% of other traffic passes me and usually at much higher velocities so I'm sure most people get places much quicker.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Dalreg

Moncton to Halifax, 2 hours 40 minutes.

I see it every week, by truck, Moncton Airport to Halifax Airport 2 hours 10 minutes and 22-25 minutes by jet in case anybody is interested.

[SaskScraper]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Those are probably city centre to city centre times.

Regardless, the times q12 posted would have been optimal freeway driving at 120 km/hr with no coffee or pee breaks.

I can drive from my home in NW Moncton to Dartmoth Crossing in about 2 hours 20 minutes. I invariably stop for gas and coffee along the way. Actual drive time is closer to 2 hours 40 minutes.

And Moncton is the closest major city in the Maritimes to Halifax.

I'd imagine with heavier traffic times especially on the two or three highways out-of-towners would be traveling to town for, particularly for CFL game days where there would be unprecedented amounts of traffic to Dartmoth, you could add at least another half hour minimum onto the travel time to any potential football games. There are no major bridges & over half a dozen highways radiating from Regina to help alleviate game day for out-of-city traffic to Rider home games.

Another added restriction to out-of-province game day drivers to CFL games in Maritimes would be the slow down at Cobequid highway toll-Pass. In the twenty odd years that pass has been open, drivers have had to fork over almost 1/3 of a billion dollars to drive that highway, It would seem unimaginable to have to pay for highway tolls in Saskatchewan but it's an everyday common occurrence there, especially if having to drive between Nova Scotia & the other provinces.

Tolls &/or ferry rides would inhibit the out-of-province spectators to CFL games for sure i'd imagine.

[Hali87]

Basically a realistic breakdown at any given game would be about:

10% of spectators from NB
10% from Cape Breton
10% from PEI and rest of NS (about 8 of this 10% would be people within a 1.5 hour of the stadium under normal traffic)
5% visitors from the RoC
5% visitors from outside Canada
60%+ from HRM (including students, sailors posted there, etc.)

It's possible that these numbers are a bit off but the idea is that the vast majority of fans at any given game would be people from Halifax and places within a short drive. People from places like CB, NB and PEI I could see checking out maybe a few games per season, or Finals/Grey Cup, but I don't think anyone is expecting people to drive from Charlottetown or Bathurst for every home game.

[q12]

Originally Posted by Dalreg

Google Maps, quotes Saint John to Halifax by road at 4 hours 5 minutes.
Fredericton to Halifax, 4 hours 23 minutes.
Moncton to Halifax, 2 hours 40 minutes.

So I would take these numbers over your "confirmed" numbers any day.

So what the hell are you talking about???

I'm talking about driving experience. The times you quoted would be right to downtown Halifax which could add an extra 30 mins or more in traffic.

Here is a speed distance time calculator: http://www.machinehead-software.co.u...time_calc.html

430 km is the approximate distance from Fredericton to the Shannon Park Stadium @ 110 km/h is 3 hours 54 mins. Most traffic travels closer to 120 km/h which is 3 hours and 35 mins. This route is entirely freeway.

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

Another added restriction to out-of-province game day drivers to CFL games in Maritimes would be the slow down at Cobequid highway toll-Pass. In the twenty odd years that pass has been open, drivers have had to fork over almost 1/3 of a billion dollars to drive that highway, It would seem unimaginable to have to pay for highway tolls in Saskatchewan but it's an everyday common occurrence there, especially if having to drive between Nova Scotia & the other provinces.

Tolls &/or ferry rides would inhibit the out-of-province spectators to CFL games for sure i'd imagine.

The only toll that would "inhibit" travel is the Confederation bridge from P.E.I. which is something Islanders have dealt with their entire lives, yet they still drive to Halifax to shop at IKEA on a regular basis.

There is one toll from New Brunswick and it is only $2 one-way with a free ez-pass ($4 without). You can bypass the toll on the previous Trans-Canada highway section through Wentworth for free.

As for the Cobequid pass, you will not find a better maintained freeway section in Canada, the pavement is nearly always pristine. You need to take a drive through the U.S. to see how common toll highways are down there. It doesn't stop a resident of Maine from driving to a Patriots game at Gillette Stadium in Foxboro, Mass.

As other forumers have pointed out there is nearly 700,000 people within an hour or so of the Halifax area.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by q12

430 km is the approximate distance from Fredericton to the Shannon Park Stadium @ 110 km/h is 3 hours 54 mins. Most traffic travels closer to 120 km/h which is 3 hours and 35 mins. This route is entirely freeway.

And, the Maritimes arguably now have the best freeway system in the Dominion but q12 is being overly optimistic here. Nobody can drive 120 km/hr the entire way from Freddy to Halifax, and you have to add in coffee, rest and pee breaks. Also, with a location at Shannon Park, at least a half hour will have to be added on to the travel time to get there and find your parking spot. A trip from Freddy would be 4 hr 20 minutes minimum (nearly 9 hours return). An overnight stay would be mandatory. Even the most ardent Freddy football fan would only make the trek once a year.

Hell, I live considerably closer to Halifax in Moncton, and I only ever go down to Halifax 2-3 times per year.

Originally Posted by q12

The only toll that would "inhibit" travel is the Confederation bridge from P.E.I. which is something Islanders have dealt with their entire lives, yet they still drive to Halifax to shop at IKEA on a regular basis.

The Cobequid Pass toll is more of a nuisance than a deal breaker in terms of driving to Halifax or not but I can guarantee you that PEIslanders do not shop in Halifax "regularly". Islanders are homebodies (I grew up there). If there is someplace they shop reasonably frequently it's Costco in Moncton (1 hr 45 minutes from Charlottetown).

Originally Posted by q12

There is one toll from New Brunswick and it is only $2 one-way with a free ez-pass ($4 without). You can bypass the toll on the previous Trans-Canada highway section through Wentworth for free.

You can bypass the toll booth on the Cobequid Pass, but then you have to drive through the Wentworth Valley instead (~ 40 km at 80 km/hr). Not many people do this.

Originally Posted by q12

As for the Cobequid pass, you will not find a better maintained freeway section in Canada, the pavement is nearly always pristine. You need to take a drive through the U.S. to see how common toll highways are down there. It doesn't stop a resident of Maine from driving to a Patriots game at Gillette Stadium in Foxboro, Mass.

The Cobequid Pass is very well maintained, no question. As for Mainers visiting Foxboro, perhaps if they live in Kennebunk, York or Ogunquit. They are essentially Boston exurbs in any event. Nobody north of Portland would frequent Foxboro on even a semi routine basis.

Originally Posted by q12

As other forumers have pointed out there is nearly 700,000 people within an hour or so of the Halifax area.

I think it's more like 600,000, but that's beside the point. The local population in central NS is more than sufficient to support a CFL team. Overall, I imagine they will compromise about 80% of the fans in the stadium seats. The majority of the rest will come from elsewhere on the peninsula, and from southeastern NB.

I'll be there 1-2 times per year.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I think it's more like 600,000, but that's beside the point. The local population in central NS is more than sufficient to support a CFL team. Overall, I imagine they will compromise about 80% of the fans in the stadium seats. The majority of the rest will come from elsewhere on the peninsula, and from southeastern NB.

I agree, the fans from in and around the Halifax area (say, within a 90 minute drive of the stadium) will be the team's bread and butter. Of course, having a few fans come in from the rest of the region will help, but it's ultimately fan support from Halifax that is going to make or break this thing.

I mean, I enjoy going to football games but if I had to drive 2 or 3 hours to do it I'd be a once a year attendee. Hell, I can see IGF from my house but I still pass on some Bomber games and opt to watch them on TV in my living room instead.

[q12]

Originally Posted by esquire

I agree, the fans from in and around the Halifax area (say, within a 90 minute drive of the stadium) will be the team's bread and butter. Of course, having a few fans come in from the rest of the region will help, but it's ultimately fan support from Halifax that is going to make or break this thing.

I mean, I enjoy going to football games but if I had to drive 2 or 3 hours to do it I'd be a once a year attendee. Hell, I can see IGF from my house but I still pass on some Bomber games and opt to watch them on TV in my living room instead.

I Agree that 90 minutes is key, which for Halifax is 3/4 Million people.

The ownership group (Maritime Football) is holding a press conference with Randy Ambroise next week announcing a conditional CFL franchise and the start of a season ticket drive and team naming contest.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by q12

The ownership group (Maritime Football) is holding a press conference with Randy Ambroise next week announcing a conditional CFL franchise and the start of a season ticket drive and team naming contest.

Damn. Much like how 15 years ago the idea of new stadiums in Hamilton, Regina and Winnipeg would have seemed preposterous, a franchise in Halifax would have also seemed nearly unthinkable at one point. Yet here we are, on the verge of seeing it happen.