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  #21  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2015, 3:15 AM
sunsetmountainland sunsetmountainland is offline
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Originally Posted by SOSS View Post
I'm surprised that there hasn't been more coverage. This is a new pipeline opened in 2014 with many spill counter measures that all failed. The only reason it isn't getting the mass coverage is that it happened in a remote area.
Also, it is in Alberta and not exactly, pristine environment territory.
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  #22  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2015, 5:09 AM
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Originally Posted by sunsetmountainland View Post
Also, it is in Alberta and not exactly, pristine environment territory.
too true
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  #23  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2015, 1:29 PM
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Originally Posted by SOSS View Post
I'm surprised that there hasn't been more coverage. This is a new pipeline opened in 2014 with many spill counter measures that all failed. The only reason it isn't getting the mass coverage is that it happened in a remote area.
I think it has received more attention than it actually warrants, it's in the news almost every day. In comparison the volume leaked is 10,000 m3, primarily contained to the pipeline right away and not into the river system, Mt. Polly spill is 15,000,000 m3 and scoured the riverbed from bank to bank and spilled into Quesnel Lake.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/met...814/story.html
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  #24  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2015, 6:24 PM
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The oil pipeline burst in Fort McMurray was so ironic considering that:

- It was a brand new "top-of-the-line" double shell pipeline.
- Pipeline bursted only 500 meters from the refinery.
- Yet it went undetected for WEEKS. Like don't they have any eyes on the site???
- 5 000 000 liters of crude oil in soil in Fort McMurray, Alberta. The oil capital of Alberta.

That's like 4x the irony and you cannot top this! If this can happen and be so poorly handled, there is nothing stopping more of these happening in much grander scale if new pipelines are built through BC. I have zero trust in this technology and the responsibility of the oil companies.

Oh yes, at least Nexen has continuously said they are sorry. Well that's great to know!
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  #25  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2015, 1:41 AM
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^ people should call you Alanis, because that's not what "ironic" means

btw good posts Canadian Mind and jawagord
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  #26  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2015, 5:27 PM
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^ people should call you Alanis, because that's not what "ironic" means

btw good posts Canadian Mind and jawagord
I was thinking the same thing.
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  #27  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2015, 6:40 PM
sunsetmountainland sunsetmountainland is offline
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Great points Klazu! SOSS here is an article supporting your arguments that their has been little news on this pipeline spill.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...200008712.html

Interesting to see cheerleaders (milomilo and Trans Canada) in a losing argument. Why not support your side with some facts or information?
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  #28  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2015, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by sunsetmountainland View Post
Great points Klazu! SOSS here is an article supporting your arguments that their has been little news on this pipeline spill.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...200008712.html

Interesting to see cheerleaders (milomilo and Trans Canada) in a losing argument. Why not support your side with some facts or information?
Uh, these are my two posts in this thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
Yep. The world needs copper and gold and it's got to be mined somewhere. Better we make money off of it than someone else, and ideally (although clearly not in this case) we will have better environmental standards than somewhere like China.

And for clarification, this company needs to pay every penny of the clean up as well as being fined.
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
I was thinking the same thing.
My opinion is the same for the recent pipeline spill. There is no need for some petty argument about whose province is cleaner - they both have plenty of environmentally damaging industries and room for improvement.
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  #29  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2015, 12:57 AM
sunsetmountainland sunsetmountainland is offline
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
Uh, these are my two posts in this thread:





My opinion is the same for the recent pipeline spill. There is no need for some petty argument about whose province is cleaner - they both have plenty of environmentally damaging industries and room for improvement.
I apologize to you then. I should have just called out jawagord, since he is the one to trivialize the spill of the Nexen pipeline.

It is easy for him to do that since his post was mostly an attack against the terrible Polly mine disaster that everyone from B.C. is disgusted with.
Since, pipelines are important to the economy of Alberta I suppose he should have been upset. Instead he thinks it has gotten to much attention. Yet, I have proven that most think it has been hidden as well as can be from the attention of the media.

I suppose he is just not a very good representative of Alberta like yourself.
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  #30  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2015, 1:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Klazu View Post
The oil pipeline burst in Fort McMurray was so ironic considering that:

- It was a brand new "top-of-the-line" double shell pipeline.
- Pipeline bursted only 500 meters from the refinery.
- Yet it went undetected for WEEKS. Like don't they have any eyes on the site???
- 5 000 000 liters of crude oil in soil in Fort McMurray, Alberta. The oil capital of Alberta.

That's like 4x the irony and you cannot top this! If this can happen and be so poorly handled, there is nothing stopping more of these happening in much grander scale if new pipelines are built through BC. I have zero trust in this technology and the responsibility of the oil companies.

Oh yes, at least Nexen has continuously said they are sorry. Well that's great to know!
Klazu, that isn't irony. And it's sad to see you descend to this level of chicken hawk.

I think you are right that companies can't be trusted, but I think that the investigation will reveal human error to be the cause of this spill rather than tech failure. It could be anything from a welder not sealing the pipe properly to intentional overlooking of failed pressure testing (if the pressure testing happened at all). Seriously, if this spill occurred over the maximum amount of time stipulated, all it would have taken is a poor weld or a cracked pipe that created a 1 inch by 1/32 inch gap to spill that much oil.

Either way, the cause will be found, and the appropriate actions will be taken to prevent it from happening again. Accidents happen, but this one was bullshit. It should not be used to negatively influence the trans Canada pipeline because the lesson will be learned and environment Canada will ensure it doesn't happen twice.

As for northern gateway, I would love to see that project eat dust, but not over environment... shipping raw oil to Asia is the wrong way to go about making jobs in this country while it repeatedly dips into needless recessions.
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  #31  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2015, 1:49 AM
sunsetmountainland sunsetmountainland is offline
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Originally Posted by Canadian Mind View Post
Klazu, that isn't irony. And it's sad to see you descend to this level of chicken hawk.

I think you are right that companies can't be trusted, but I think that the investigation will reveal human error to be the cause of this spill rather than tech failure. It could be anything from a welder not sealing the pipe properly to intentional overlooking of failed pressure testing (if the pressure testing happened at all). Seriously, if this spill occurred over the maximum amount of time stipulated, all it would have taken is a poor weld or a cracked pipe that created a 1 inch by 1/32 inch gap to spill that much oil.

Either way, the cause will be found, and the appropriate actions will be taken to prevent it from happening again. Accidents happen, but this one was bullshit. It should not be used to negatively influence the trans Canada pipeline because the lesson will be learned and environment Canada will ensure it doesn't happen twice.

As for northern gateway, I would love to see that project eat dust, but not over environment... shipping raw oil to Asia is the wrong way to go about making jobs in this country while it repeatedly dips into needless recessions.
Canadian mind, the exact point that you think it is human error makes the point even with technology we cannot trust the pipelines right now. Since there is always a chance of human error. I think most people from B.C. think the pristine environment in British Columbia is more important! Since you are from the island like me you should of all people understand!

Klazu is right! He is no chicken hawk but he sure can take a picture of one! Like the pictures he takes of B.C. I hope he gets to Campbell River where you grew up to take some pictures as well as have a nice round of golf at Storey Creek. I bet he will lose a golf ball there for sure as I sure do!
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  #32  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2015, 3:18 AM
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Originally Posted by sunsetmountainland View Post
Canadian mind, the exact point that you think it is human error makes the point even with technology we cannot trust the pipelines right now. Since there is always a chance of human error. I think most people from B.C. think the pristine environment in British Columbia is more important! Since you are from the island like me you should of all people understand!

Klazu is right! He is no chicken hawk but he sure can take a picture of one! Like the pictures he takes of B.C. I hope he gets to Campbell River where you grew up to take some pictures as well as have a nice round of golf at Storey Creek. I bet he will lose a golf ball there for sure as I sure do!
I think the point of this thread is to show that it isn't just oil that risks damaging the environment - all industry does to some extent, and BC has more than it's fair share when you consider forestry and mining. BC and Alberta need to be working together here to get a mutually beneficial arrangement, not slinging mud at each other.
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  #33  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2015, 3:30 AM
sunsetmountainland sunsetmountainland is offline
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
I think the point of this thread is to show that it isn't just oil that risks damaging the environment - all industry does to some extent, and BC has more than it's fair share when you consider forestry and mining. BC and Alberta need to be working together here to get a mutually beneficial arrangement, not slinging mud at each other.
No I disagree, I understand jawagord was slinging mud at us from the beginning. I understand, that Alberta has lots to gain from a pipeline. While B.C. has everything to lose. If the Polly mine is a disaster at least it is a B.C. disaster!
What is the benefit of a pipeline through the pristine B.C. environment for B.C.? Perhaps you can call me provincial or myopic granted. I call it common sense!
I would prefer natural gas pipeline in B.C. with B.C. benefits. Also, a much less environmental damage if leaked. Sounds like common sense too me.
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  #34  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2015, 3:45 AM
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Originally Posted by sunsetmountainland View Post
No I disagree, I understand jawagord was slinging mud at us from the beginning. I understand, that Alberta has lots to gain from a pipeline. While B.C. has everything to lose. If the Polly mine is a disaster at least it is a B.C. disaster!
What is the benefit of a pipeline through the pristine B.C. environment for B.C.? Perhaps you can call me provincial or myopic granted. I call it common sense!
I would prefer natural gas pipeline in B.C. with B.C. benefits. Also, a much less environmental damage if leaked. Sounds like common sense too me.
I'm not 100% sold on Northern Gateway, but it will provide employment in Kitimat as well as any payments sent to BC. It will also provide a large customer for your natural gas (to dilute the oil).

BC's environment is no more or less pristine than Alberta's. You realise all that natural gas is going to come from fracked gas wells over a large area in BC? Not that that is bad, but you're going to have to accept that there is an environmental cost to all resource extraction.
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  #35  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2015, 7:35 PM
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Canadians accept that cost.

2014 saw record:
- airline travel
- oil consumption
- automobile purchases

We preach the pro-environment thing till the cows come home but our behaviour tells a different story.
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  #36  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2015, 11:51 PM
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Victoria shuts down Yellow Giant gold mine in BC

Victoria shuts down Yellow Giant gold mine in northwestern B.C. over pollution spills.

Seems to be alot of mud to spill in BC, this is the 4th mine spill in less than a year. The point of this thread is to show BC is not a giant pristine wilderness park that will be violated by a single oil pipeline. Oil pipelines have traditionally been considered safer than gas pipelines because they don't explode, safer than trains as they don't derail and the most economical way to move hydrocarbons (ask Chevron Burnaby or Suncor Montreal refineries how they want to get their crude feed stocks delivered). The oil and gas industry constructs facilities to a much higher standard than most other industries due to the flammable and explosive nature of hydrocarbons. American Petroleum Institute and Canadian Standards are tops in the world for safety. But current thinking seems to be, old toxic mines, no worries, explosive gas pipelines bring em on, new modern export oil pipelines, very bad!

http://www.vancouversun.com/Victoria...#ixzz3h8XzUg00
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  #37  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2015, 1:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Canadian Mind View Post
Klazu, that isn't irony. And it's sad to see you descend to this level of chicken hawk.

I think you are right that companies can't be trusted, but I think that the investigation will reveal human error to be the cause of this spill rather than tech failure. It could be anything from a welder not sealing the pipe properly to intentional overlooking of failed pressure testing (if the pressure testing happened at all).
I am not a native English speaker but this is exactly what an ironic situation means in my native language. This was supposed to be "best-of-the-best" and "a new generation" pipeline - a real showcase of the top-of-the-line safety pipeline technology. Yet it failed miserably almost immediately. What was marketed to us and what ended up happening were complete opposite and to me that is quite ironic.

How are you so sure that this was a human error? And what does it even matter what caused a burst, as the immediate result was oil leaking into pristine nature.

The point here is that if this can happen with the newest pipelines right next to the source and still go undetected for weeks (still puzzled how that is possible ), how on Earth would they ever detect a burst taking place in middle of nowhere? Burst are bound to happen (irrelevant if due to technology failure or human error) and this shows that they could go unnoticed for months. That's the real takeaway from this case.

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Originally Posted by Canadian Mind View Post
Either way, the cause will be found, and the appropriate actions will be taken to prevent it from happening again.
If it was a human error, how do you prevent it from happening again? Human errors happen because humans make mistakes and enforcing new policies and processes will not be able to prevent that from happening.

And when we are talking about an oil pipelines bursting in middle of pristine nature, even one case can have catastrophical/irreversible results. We cannot afford even one to happen!

Imagine a pipe bursting nearby Fraser River encatchment area and spilling millions of liters of oil into the waterway for weeks if not months. That would be a catastropic thing for tens of thousands of people living downstream and there is no way to clean up such.

One is also never able to really "clean up" oil spills. One just moves the spilled soil somewhere else. Even in the recent English Bay spill they didn't clean it up as many seem to think. Most of the leaked bunker oil dissolved into the water and much of it (supposedly) sunk to the bottom of the ocean, where it still is. Them brushing some rocks and seabirds was a minor thing in what happened.

I don't understand how some people make this some kind of Mount Polley vs. Ft. McMurray spill discussion? Both cases are bad and suck, and I am just as much appalled by the Mount Polley case and how it seems that it is being concluded as an "oops case" and being swept under the rug for business to resume. No fines or charges will be pressed, it seems.

In my opinion we should completely stop transporting bitumen and other unrefined oil products anywhere. We are like a Third World banana country pumping and shipping our cheap unrefined natural resource to other countries that then refine it and sell some of it back to us with a huge markup. We should refine our oil into gasoline and whatnot already in Canada, nearby where the drilling happens and be the ones selling the more expensive refined end product to other countries.

This would also enable us Canadians to enjoy cheap gas like most other oil producing countried do. This would be a huge advantage for our economy and the personal consumers. We are a country of great distances to we need lots of energy for our lifestyle and as an energy produces, we should be able to reap some benefits from it.

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Originally Posted by sunsetmountainland View Post
Great points Klazu! SOSS here is an article supporting your arguments that their has been little news on this pipeline spill.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...200008712.html
Interesting article. Thanks for posting.
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  #38  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2015, 10:27 PM
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Province approves new gold and silver mine

The new mine approvals just keep coming in BC.

The provincial government has issued a final operating permit for the Brucejack Mine, owned by Pretium (TSXVG) Resources Inc., after the project received an environmental assessment certificate and the necessary federal approvals.

There are currently more than 30 major mine and expansion proposals going through the environmental assessment and permitting processes across B.C.
Brucejack will be the eighth new mine to be constructed since 2011, an achievement Minister of Energy and Mines Bill Bennett said is unmatched by any other jurisdiction in Canada.


http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/provi...-b-c-1.2497285
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  #39  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2015, 3:38 AM
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Barge tips, spilling scrap cars into Victoria's Gorge waterway

Another addition to BC's pristine marine environment.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/met...264/story.html

A barge carrying wrecked cars tipped into the Gorge waterway near Jutland Road this afternoon, spilling around one hundred vehicles into the water.

Karri Rolofs was riding her bike over the Selkirk trestle when she saw the barge start to tip. As she surveyed the aftermath, Rolofs was worried about the oil contaminating the waterway.

“You can see the boom isn't containing it,” she said. “The oil is seeping into the rest of the harbour and there's lots of seals in the waterway.”

The smell of oil is thick in the air.
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  #40  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2015, 5:08 PM
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Another addition to BC's pristine marine environment.

A barge carrying wrecked cars tipped into the Gorge waterway near Jutland Road this afternoon, spilling around one hundred vehicles into the water.
"BC's pristine marine environment"? You mean the pristine one that Victoria dumps raw sewage into?
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