China, U.S. Reach Agreement on High-Speed Rail

[anday]

China, U.S. Reach Agreement on High-Speed Rail Before Xi Visit



Deal is China's first contract for high-speed Line in U.S.
Deal to link L.A. and Las Vegas comes after 4 years of talks

A China Railway Group-led consortium and XpressWest Enterprises LLC will form a joint venture to build a high-speed railway linking Las Vegas and Los Angeles, the first Chinese-made bullet-train project in the U.S.
Construction of the 370-kilometer (230-mile) Southwest Rail Network will begin as soon as next September, according to a statement from Shu Guozeng, an official with the Communist Party’s leading group on financial and economic affairs. The project comes after four years of negotiations and will be supported by $100 million in initial capital. The statement didn’t specify the project’s expected cost or completion date.
The agreement, signed days before President Xi Jinping’s state visit to the U.S., is a milestone in China’s efforts to market its high-speed rail technology in advanced economies. The country has been pushing the technology primarily in emerging markets -- often with a sales pitch from Premier Li Keqiang-- as a means to project political influence. A $567 million contract last October to supply trains for Boston’s subway system was China’s first rail-related deal in the U.S.
The agreement also represents an important victory in China’s high-speed rail rivalry with Japan, as the two countries have competed for train contracts throughout Asia. The parent company of JR Central, Japan’s largest bullet-train maker, had expressed interest in the Los Angeles-Las Vegas line several years ago, and China and Japan are both expected to bid to supply train cars for a proposed high-speed rail line in California’s Central Valley.
"This is the first high-speed railway project where China and the U.S. will have systematic cooperation," Yang Zhongmin, a deputy chief engineer with China Railway Group, said after a news conference in Beijing. “It shows the advancement of China-made high-speed railways."
The Los Angeles-Las Vegas project will create new technology, manufacturing and construction jobs in the region, Shu’s statement said.
Through July, China had built more than 17,000 kilometers (10,565 miles) of domestic high-speed rail lines, according to the official Xinhua News Agency.
Apart from the railway project, China National Machinery Industry Corp. and General Electric Co. signed a memo of understanding to invest $327 million to develop 60 wind power stations in Kenya, Shu said at the Beijing news conference.
During Xi’s visit starting next week, China and the U.S. are expected to reach agreements on trade, energy, climate, finance, aviation, defense and infrastructure construction, China Foreign Minister Wang Yi said Wednesday. Xi is due to visit Boeing Co.’s factory in Everett, Washington as China makes a push to build its own passenger planes.
"Economic and trade cooperation will be a major topic for president Xi’s visit to the U.S.," Shu said in Beijing. "China and the U.S. share common interests and have solid foundation for cooperation."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...efore-xi-visit

I didn't know where to put this so I made a new thread.

[Cirrus]

That's fine. You are allowed to make new threads.

Are there any more details on the line? Where will it start and end? Do they really mean LA, or do they mean Victorville or something?

[anday]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

That's fine. You are allowed to make new threads.

Are there any more details on the line? Where will it start and end? Do they really mean LA, or do they mean Victorville or something?

I don't know honestly but I have more articles if they help but I don't know if they will.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-34277739

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/17/chine...in-the-us.html

[Hatman]

Both articles anday posted say this contract is worth $5 billion. I've heard estimates about using maglev along the same route costing between $4-12 billion. Xpress West had originally stated that the line as far as Victorville would cost about $2 billion (Is that right? I'm going off of memory now), so $5 billion makes me hopeful that the Chinese are willing to finance the entire line, LA to LV.

I should have seen this coming. It's a match made in heaven. China is looking everywhere to export their HSR, and Japan is already working with a private company in Texas. This just makes far too much sense not to happen.

[blackcat23]

Originally Posted by Hatman

Xpress West had originally stated that the line as far as Victorville would cost about $2 billion (Is that right? I'm going off of memory now), so $5 billion makes me hopeful that the Chinese are willing to finance the entire line, LA to LV.

Building all the way into the LA basin seems like it would add a lot more than $3 billion to the cost.

The only way that the Xpress West project was able to keep its overall budget relatively low was by allowing California High Speed Rail to do the heavy lifting.

[M II A II R II K]

Any word on how fast the train will go....

[anday]

Here's an article from the LA times

A high-speed rail from L.A. to Las Vegas? China says it's partnering with U.S. to build

A long-discussed high-speed rail project linking Southern California and Las Vegas will be built by a U.S.-China joint venture, Chinese officials said Thursday, though many details about the agreement remained hazy.

Announcement of cooperation on the XpressWest project adjacent to the 15 Freeway comes days ahead of Chinese President Xi Jinping’s state visit to the United States. Financial terms of the agreement, and the cost of the project, were not immediately clear.

XpressWest, a private venture formerly called DesertXpress, has been under discussion since at least 2007. Chinese officials described the project as a 230-mile train linking Las Vegas and Los Angeles, though XpressWest's website says the route is planned as 185 miles from Vegas to Victorville, 85 miles northeast of downtown L.A.


XpressWest agreed this month to form a joint venture with China Railway International USA Co. to build and operate the railway, Shu Guozeng, deputy head of the government's Office of the Central Leading Group for Financial and Economic Affairs, said at a news conference Thursday, according to the state-run Xinhua News Agency. Shu claimed the project could begin construction as early as September 2016.

Representatives of XpressWest did not immediately return requests for comment.

Multiple proposals for a Vegas-to-L.A. train have been discussed over the years, with none coming to fruition because of funding difficulties and other setbacks.

China has built the most extensive high-speed railway network in the world.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...917-story.html

[ardecila]

Good news, but I call BS on the start date.

No way they get construction started in Fall 2016, unless we're talking about some meaningless ceremonial groundbreaking. There's countless layers of environmental reviews, etc. Even the engineering would take at least a year (although maybe the Chinese can bring a sweatshop of engineers to crank this thing out faster).

[afiggatt]

Originally Posted by Hatman

Both articles anday posted say this contract is worth $5 billion. I've heard estimates about using maglev along the same route costing between .... Xpress West had originally stated that the line as far as Victorville would cost about $2 billion (Is that right? I'm going off of memory now), so $5 billion makes me hopeful that the Chinese are willing to finance the entire line, LA to LV.

I should have seen this coming. It's a match made in heaven. China is looking everywhere to export their HSR, and Japan is already working with a private company in Texas. This just makes far too much sense not to happen.

Xpress West applied for a $5.6 billion RIFF loan to build the HSR line from Vegas to Victorville which included rolling stock and I think was for ~85% to 90% of the total cost. So the Vegas to Victorville portion is in the $5 to $6 billion range.

The press release I saw specifically states the Vegas HSR line will be extended to Palmdale. Where it can connect to the CA HSR line. Whether the Chinese XW trains would be allowed to run straight through to LA Union Station on CA HSR tracks or there would be a cross platform transfer at Palmdale, I suspect has yet to fully hashed out. A direct LA to Vegas train will do a lot more business, so there is considerable incentive for the CHSRA and XW & Chinese backers to make the trains compatible and compliant with the FRA rules. But there will be choppy political waters ahead, with a likely backlash against the proposed deal because of the Chinese involvement.

I also call BS on September, 2016 for possible start of construction and only taking 3 years to build the line. The Chinese construction firms and companies have little to no experience building infrastructure projects in the US. Unlike some other countries the Chinese are building big projects in, the US, CA, NV have rules, regulations, a permitting process that can't be waved away or ignored.

[eleven=11]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plaza_...acific_Station
is this the location for the vegas downtown station??

[chris08876]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Good news, but I call BS on the start date.

No way they get construction started in Fall 2016, unless we're talking about some meaningless ceremonial groundbreaking. There's countless layers of environmental reviews, etc. Even the engineering would take at least a year (although maybe the Chinese can bring a sweatshop of engineers to crank this thing out faster).

Yeah the reviews and permits and environmental studies will take the longest out of the process. Well, at least its a good starter project for the Chinese when it comes to U.S. high-speed rail. Hopefully we can get something like that in the Northeast. The cost alone though would be extraordinary.

Environmental reviews can at times be bs. So much litigation.

[bzcat]

The LA Times article says the contract is to build and operate the rail line. I take that to mean the Chinese will delivery a turnkey rail line from Vegas to Victorville.

This of course is completely different approach from CAHSR, which is overseeing the construction itself and has yet to award any contract (or made any decision) on rolling stock and related train systems.

I'm sure with enough money and time, they can make the two rail system compatible so both XpressWest and CAHSR may one day operate trains from LA Union Station to Downtown Las Vegas.

[Eightball]

I thought the Xpress West people already had done a lot of the approval work and mainly needed funding? But I agree construction will take longer than proposed to start.

i wonder if the Chinese or the Japanese will get their HSA up and running first? Bragging rights there for sure. Although I consider both TXHSR and this XpressWest HSR borderline vaporware (no offense) until actual construction starts. In Texas they have been talking about it for decades with no movement.

So now CA will have two HSR lines. And personally I don't think having Metrolink connections to Union Station is that big of a deal. Hell, maybe (assuming they will be long trains packed full of people) Metrolink can run additional trains timed with departures/arrivals.

The Chinese know President Obama loves HSR, good way to butter him up a little

Plus AAF is in heavy construction on their not quite HSR but all new, faster service. CAHSR (first leg) is u/c, funded with over 10 billion in cash plus hundreds of millions of dollars a year from cap and trade. Amazing times for passenger rail in the US

[mrnyc]

hopefully this or florida come through. we need something up and running asap as a demonstration project for the rest of the country.

[Eightball]

re: approvals (from their website: http://www.xpresswest.com/project.html)

pressWest within the I-15 right-of-way

XpressWest is approved for construction and operation within the I-15 freeway corridor. Through extensive collaboration and coordination with the Federal Railroad Administration, Federal Highway Administration, Caltrans and Nevada DOT, all parties agreed to a Highway Interface Manual (LINK) demonstrating how high speed rail can effectively work within an operating interstate freeway.

On November 18, 2011, the Federal Highway Administration’s Nevada and California Division Administrators executed a joint Record of Decision concluding that:

The XpressWest project would be a compatible use within the I-15 corridor and would not interfere with the free flow of traffic or impair the full use and safety of the highway
The project is acceptable from a highway engineering and operations perspective
The Highway Interface Manual will be the guiding document for final design
In December, 2011 XpressWest executed a lease agreement with the Bureau of Land Management for all federal land required for the project comprising a majority of the 180 miles of railroad right-of-way varying from 60 to over 100 feet in width.

Working under an executed Memorandum of Understanding with the State of California, XpressWest is positioned to secure all of the required California state property. XpressWest is working cooperatively with the State of Nevada for right-of-way required in Clark County.

unlikely to be final rendering? (also from same page of their website)

[anday]

ABC's article about it [video]

Chinese-Built High-Speed Rail May Be in the Works Between Los Angeles, Las Vegas

"The project will immediately undertake all necessary regulatory and commercial activities to advance the reality of regional high-speed rail in the United States," according to a statement from XpressWest. "Implementation will begin within the next 100 days."

Called the Southwest Rail Network, the project aims to build a stations in Las Vegas; Victoriville, California; and Palmdale, California, with service throughout Los Angeles. The project has a price tag of about $7 billion, the Associated Press reports.

XPressWest, a private company in Nevada, has hoped to build a high-speed passenger railroad along the route since 2005.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/chine...ry?id=33861481

TLDR The video says the current trip is 4 hours but with the new high speed rail line it will take about 1 hour and 20 minutes

[BrownTown]

Originally Posted by Hatman

This just makes far too much sense not to happen.

More like it makes no sense. People aren't going to drive for an hour or two just to park and then get in a train to save half an hour off the rest of the trip.

[anday]

China wants to build a high-speed train connecting Los Angeles to Las Vegas

A unit of China's CRRC Corp., the world's biggest train maker by revenue, on Thursday joined a group of its domestic peers in agreeing on a deal to help build a high-speed link from Las Vegas to Los Angeles, underlining the rail giant's lofty overseas ambitions.

Announced in a joint statement by the Chinese firms and their US partner XpressWest at a government forum in Beijing, the deal is the latest in a series of deeper Sino-American business ties to be unveiled before President Xi Jinping visits the United States next week. The computer maker Dell Inc. said it would invest $125 billion in China, and new bilateral investment treaty offers have been exchanged.

CRRC, formed from a state-driven merger of China's two largest train makers, is among a large group of the country's rail firms that has signed an accord for the project with XpressWest, a venture set up by the Las Vegas-based hotel and casino developer Marnell Companies. Investment terms weren't disclosed.

Gary Wong, a Hong Kong-based analyst at the brokerage Guotai Junan, estimated that the project could be worth $5 billion. He said that although it would most likely offer the many Chinese firms involved little financial benefit, it was significant for their long-term goals.

http://www.businessinsider.com/china...eles-las-vegas

[anday]

China companies join US high-speed rail project

Read more at http://www.mb.com.ph/china-companies...5PG7pJzs78e.99

A Chinese rail consortium is teaming up with private US firm XpressWest to push forward a high-speed rail project linking Las Vegas with Los Angeles, the companies said.

The proposed new rail link, dubbed the Southwest Rail Network, ”will drive new economic development and grow the tourism industry which is vital to the economy of the region,” they said in a joint statement.

The Las Vegas-based XpressWest is entering a joint venture with a newly formed Nevada company, China Railway International USA.

[Hatman]

Originally Posted by BrownTown

More like it makes no sense. People aren't going to drive for an hour or two just to park and then get in a train to save half an hour off the rest of the trip.

Sure, yeah, if the train only goes to Victorville it is about as useful as a half-finished bridge. What would be useful is the full line between LA and LV, which is what was stated in the articles.
But now I want to know details! What is that map with the red dots? Surely not a route map? Will the train really run within the I-15 median? And will it only go as far as Palmdale, and then rely on the mercies of the ever-delayed California HSR? I got excited when I learned that there was real financial and technical backing for this project, but now I want to know what they're going to do with it!