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  #81  
Old Posted May 21, 2013, 1:57 PM
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Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
Yeah, I know. But why couldn't he be a stylish rogue like Berlusconi or a charming Tory buffoon like Boris? Why does he have to be a football-coaching 300-pound behemoth of a hick that even Alabama would consider too over-the-top?

I vehemently disagree with his politics and his policies, but what I find really galling is his wilfully non-Glenn Gouldian persona. I'm probably in denial about the true face of southern Ontario culture, which these days some might say is less Robertson Davies than Dukes of Hazzard.

On one of my bike rides through the countryside the other day I saw a pickup truck with a Confederate flag in the back windshield. At first I wished I had a gun so I could shoot the motherfucker, but immediately realized that that would only have played into his hand. So I resorted to seething at him inwardly in true 19th century Presbyterian fashion. After all, we have a culture to preserve and protect against vulgar American-wannabees like Ford.
Interesting analysis. Southern Ontario was "born in that water", so to speak. The original culture at least was very much about a right way and a wrong way of being, and was not necessarily very tolerant of people who stepped across the line. (All of which was part of the reason for not joining the American adventure in the first place way back when, the new United States being more of a no-holds-barred, freewheeling enterprise.)

Of course, today southern Ontario has morphed into one of the most tolerant, diverse and live-and-let-live places in the world. This dramatic transformation is nothing short of astonishing when you think about it.

Of course, the old my-way-or-the-highway and do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do mentality displayed by people like Rob Ford and other right-wingers rears its head every so often and is still there under the surface.

But I don't think they'll be running the show down there any more than on a very occasional basis for short periods of time.
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  #82  
Old Posted May 21, 2013, 3:05 PM
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[QUOTE=Acajack;6135695]Interesting analysis. Southern Ontario was "born in that water", so to speak. The original culture at least was very much about a right way and a wrong way of being, and was not necessarily very tolerant of people who stepped across the line. (All of which was part of the reason for not joining the American adventure in the first place way back when, the new United States being more of a no-holds-barred, freewheeling enterprise.)

Of course, today southern Ontario has morphed into one of the most tolerant, diverse and live-and-let-live places in the world. This dramatic transformation is nothing short of astonishing when you think about it.

Of course, the old my-way-or-the-highway and do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do mentality displayed by people like Rob Ford and other right-wingers rears its head every so often and is still there under the surface.

But I don't think they'll be running the show down there any more than on a very occasional basis for short periods of time.[/QUOTE]

You need to spend more time among us founding Calvinists down here, Acajack. We judge as much as ever we did, but our tongues bleed from having to bite them so much!

Re running the show, I take it you're not sold on the "Big Shift". In the TO context, I have to wonder whether the burbs haven't realized that the numbers are on their side and they just need to be more careful about their choice of representatives?
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  #83  
Old Posted May 21, 2013, 3:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Interesting analysis. Southern Ontario was "born in that water", so to speak. The original culture at least was very much about a right way and a wrong way of being, and was not necessarily very tolerant of people who stepped across the line. (All of which was part of the reason for not joining the American adventure in the first place way back when, the new United States being more of a no-holds-barred, freewheeling enterprise.)

Of course, today southern Ontario has morphed into one of the most tolerant, diverse and live-and-let-live places in the world. This dramatic transformation is nothing short of astonishing when you think about it.

Of course, the old my-way-or-the-highway and do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do mentality displayed by people like Rob Ford and other right-wingers rears its head every so often and is still there under the surface.

But I don't think they'll be running the show down there any more than on a very occasional basis for short periods of time.[/QUOTE]

You need to spend more time among us founding Calvinists down here, Acajack. We judge as much as ever we did, but our tongues bleed from having to bite them so much!

Re running the show, I take it you're not sold on the "Big Shift". In the TO context, I have to wonder whether the burbs haven't realized that the numbers are on their side and they just need to be more careful about their choice of representatives?
I think that Rob Ford's election is the result of a perfect but relatively unlikely alignment of the stars that brought together the conservative segments of the "Old Ontario" as well as a certain portion of the immigrant communities. This was enough to take him over the top. I am not sure this alignment will repeat itself that often. Makes me think of solar eclipses... does that sound weird?
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  #84  
Old Posted May 21, 2013, 8:45 PM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
Re running the show, I take it you're not sold on the "Big Shift". In the TO context, I have to wonder whether the burbs haven't realized that the numbers are on their side and they just need to be more careful about their choice of representatives?

"The numbers" for what exactly?


Before Rob Ford came along, there was none of this us vs. them, liberal vs. conservative mentality in the city. The narrative of the snooty downtown elites keeping the righteous suburbanites down is something that was largely fabricated and exploited by the Ford Nation/Sun Media types to drum up support for their candidate. Prior to that, suburbanites seemed to have no problem with voting for left-wing, urbanist candidates like David Miller (who despite being a "downtown elite", did far more to serve the suburbs than Ford and his ilk ever will).


Just for comparison, here are the previous election's results...

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  #85  
Old Posted May 21, 2013, 9:55 PM
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"The numbers" for what exactly?


Before Rob Ford came along, there was none of this us vs. them, liberal vs. conservative mentality in the city. The narrative of the snooty downtown elites keeping the righteous suburbanites down is something that was largely fabricated and exploited by the Ford Nation/Sun Media types to drum up support for their candidate. Prior to that, suburbanites seemed to have no problem with voting for left-wing, urbanist candidates like David Miller (who despite being a "downtown elite", did far more to serve the suburbs than Ford and his ilk ever will).


Just for comparison, here are the previous election's results...

The only problem I have with that is that was then and this is now. Having successful divided the electorate and shown part of it that they can exercise their votes to the desired result, whether the "old Toronto" is on board or not, how does the genie get put back in the bottle? (i.e. won't successors be tempted to pursue the same tactics?)
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  #86  
Old Posted May 22, 2013, 12:48 PM
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The only problem I have with that is that was then and this is now. Having successful divided the electorate and shown part of it that they can exercise their votes to the desired result, whether the "old Toronto" is on board or not, how does the genie get put back in the bottle? (i.e. won't successors be tempted to pursue the same tactics?)
... and what is that so-called "desired result"? To severely stagnate the City?
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  #87  
Old Posted May 22, 2013, 3:12 PM
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... and what is that so-called "desired result"? To severely stagnate the City?
Well, since the "end the gravy train" spiel was successful for him, I assume the desired result was to get government (in this case municipal) out of their increasingly strained pockets. To get into things like "severely stagnate the City" or other considerations probably goes well beyond what Ford voters were taking into account at the time of the election. Whether they got what they were promised (and how they respond to that, and Ford's buffoonery, come next election) are subjects for a different discussion.
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  #88  
Old Posted May 22, 2013, 3:20 PM
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yeah, definitely those white folks. shady bunch.

but you have to admit, there's one great thing about them: it's socially safe to notice when they gravitate to antisocial behaviours. you don't lose prestige when you call them out.
It's more case that in general, when a small minority of white folks do something, we don't automatically assume that the entirety if the race is partaking in said activity.

Crack would never be labelled a "white man's drug" no matter how many white people smoked it. So the usual stigma just never gets attached. We simply don't do that with white people (except that we can't jump, or dance).
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  #89  
Old Posted May 22, 2013, 4:17 PM
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I disagree. As you alluded to, there's a different set of stereotypes for white people. The worst stereotype, I think, is the idea that every white person is born with some sort of special privilege. This isn't true. There are lots of poor white people with terrible lives, and many privileged people who are not white.
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  #90  
Old Posted May 22, 2013, 4:31 PM
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I disagree. As you alluded to, there's a different set of stereotypes for white people. The worst stereotype, I think, is the idea that every white person is born with some sort of special privilege. This isn't true. There are lots of poor white people with terrible lives, and many privileged people who are not white.
I don't think that's a commonly held stereotype at all. If anything, it's a strawman created by people to downplay things like affirmative action and such.

I would argue that all else being equal (economic status, social standing, etc), that the average white person DOES enjoy at least a tiny bit more privilege than someone of colour, at least in our current society. There's a mountain of evidence supporting this. But not that EVERY white person somehow has it better than EVERY non-white. That's obviously ridiculous. Again, not sure who'd actually claim this, other than people with axes to grind.
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  #91  
Old Posted May 22, 2013, 4:49 PM
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In my experience it is much more common than the stereotype of black people smoking crack. It's also harder to address because it is less politically correct to question stereotypes about white people (you just pointed out for example that most people who bring up these things up are really after affirmative action).
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  #92  
Old Posted May 22, 2013, 5:05 PM
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In my experience it is much more common than the stereotype of black people smoking crack. It's also harder to address because it is less politically correct to question stereotypes about white people (you just pointed out for example that most people who bring up these things up are really after affirmative action).
Well yes, because it's generally true. I've grown up and spent my entire life in an environment full of people who want to cry "poor whitey!" all the time. And in my experience, 99% of their complaints basically come down to the fact that what they're really complaining about is someone "else" getting on an equal footing with them. Hell, just the number of people I know who think that it's perfectly OK for a white Canadian to sit on welfare, but an immigrant collecting any benefits is a fucking crisis - it's staggering. And this isn't REALLY about immigration - the same outrage applies to a 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation "coloured" person, if you ask them deeply enough.

I will say that the single biggest stereotype that's prevalent about white folks is this: that most/all white people are very racist. Not only is it demonstrably false, but white people are some of the least racist people around. Other cultures are far, far worse for this. It's just that white folks have had the power and influence to use their racism over the years, disproportionally. So much so that we've created this massive shame about being white to go along with it.
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  #93  
Old Posted May 22, 2013, 5:13 PM
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A handy little spreadsheet of Rob Ford's antics: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...tVDZHaUE#gid=0
gold.

Having missed several previous weigh-ins and endured both ridicule from his brother Doug and a viral video showing him being heckled while coming out of a Kentucky Fried Chicken outlet, Ford falls short of his stated goal in his “Cut the Waist” challenge, losing no additional weight in his final weigh-in and then stumbling off the scale and twisting his ankle.

Maple Leafs great Johnny Bower receives an ovation when he is shown on the Jumbotron at the team's first playoff home game in nine years. Cheers turn to boos as Ford jumps into the shot for a handshake, and the camera abruptly cuts away.

Ford gives a rousing pro-casino speech to an audience of orthodox Jews at a religious event.

now it has come out that the guy is enough of a crack head to feel comfortable smoking it with some scumbags in rexdale, guys that even major news sources are describing as "somali drug dealers." bwahahaha, from national to international laughingstock in a few quick minutes, and the only time most non-canadians have ever even heard of toronto.
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  #94  
Old Posted May 22, 2013, 5:34 PM
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You guys are being way too hard on Mayor Ford. look at all the great international exposure he's getting for the city, I mean, when was the last time Jon Stewart or Jimmy Kimmel even mentioned Toronto?
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  #95  
Old Posted May 22, 2013, 6:01 PM
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You guys are being way too hard on Mayor Ford. look at all the great international exposure he's getting for the city, I mean, when was the last time Jon Stewart or Jimmy Kimmel even mentioned Toronto?
All Press is good Press?
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  #96  
Old Posted May 22, 2013, 6:55 PM
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Nearly $115k has been raised by Gawker. Yikes.

Of course once they buy the video they'll re-license it at a healthy profit to news organizations from around the world who won't mind paying $10k per pop to show the video on their networks.
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  #97  
Old Posted May 22, 2013, 7:16 PM
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you know, if gawker publishes that video, it could have reverberations well beyond the fate of rob ford. in thoroughly and ruthlessly discrediting this clown, we could well see bleedover onto allied councilors and various positions ford has taken with vehemence, just in time for next phase of the development boom, a phase likely to be more tightly focused in the very core, with smaller units and rental playing a big role. perfect time to really commit to widespread pedestrian-scale streets, tree plantings, more extensive bike lanes, and the rest, without rob ford and his gang of fire-breathing extremists in the way. heady days, toronto. it was almost worth the 4-year circus as a sort of mass catechism to set you on the right track for good, like a bad relationship from which you emerge wiser and more sure of yourselves. with the added bonus that ford won't just be kicked up to the senate after he's trounced in the polls.
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  #98  
Old Posted May 22, 2013, 8:09 PM
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  #99  
Old Posted May 23, 2013, 12:59 AM
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People in Toronto should be loving Ford, he's brought the city more press in the States than the SARS crisis. Isn't US recognition of their city what every Torontonian craves?

This is hilarious:
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  #100  
Old Posted May 23, 2013, 1:43 AM
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Welcome to Toronto "Bitches!"

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