Will the US see an uptick in European/Caucasian Immigration?

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

It's too soon to make that conclusion from the Trump tax cuts for sure, but it's not hard to see it lead to that. OTOH, New York City taxes on these places are absurdly cheap. Last weekend I saw some ads for $100M apartments and the taxes were like $100K a year. That sounds like a lot, but if you can afford a $100M apartment then you probably make at least $100K in a day. By comparison, it likely takes most middle class people a week or two to earn the annual property tax burden on their primary home.

Apartments that sell for eight or nine figures aren't the same as a middle class house. Someone whose primary residence is a house or apartment worth $500K probably has most of their net worth tied up in their home. If you're Michael Bloomberg and you own a $100M apartment, that apartment is worth as much to you as cheap $500 engagement ring would be to the owner of a $500K house. It's something he could park money into and forget that he even owns.

Sticking $100M in an apartment is a safer bet than sticking it into a checking account that will only insure an insignificant percentage should the financial institution collapse. You can insure a property for the full value.

This isn't accurate, a $100M condo in NYC will have over $1M a year in property taxes, not $100K. Furthermore, If some Billionaire wants to purchase a condo in Manhattan and contribute $1M a year in property taxes to the city, why would you have an issue with that?

[Handro]

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago

What point are you attempting to prove?

"I don't know and neither do you" = false

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago

This isn't accurate, a $100M condo in NYC will have over $1M a year in property taxes, not $100K.

Take that up with the real estate ads. If it's not correct then point taken.

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago

Furthermore, If some Billionaire wants to purchase a condo in Manhattan and contribute $1M a year in property taxes to the city, why would you have an issue with that?

You asked for an example of stashing money in a mattress.

[Investing In Chicago]

[QUOTE=iheartthed;8767705]Take that up with the real estate ads. If it's not correct then point taken.

It's not correct, would take 2 min to look up the property tax rates in NYC.

Originally Posted by iheartthed

You asked for an example of stashing money in a mattress.

How is paying $1M a year in Taxes (on your $100M condo example) equivalent to stashing money in a mattress?

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by Handro

"I don't know and neither do you" = false

First off, none of this has anything to do with the point, because whether the owner of said condo lives in the unit full time or not, the property taxes are still paid.

Additionally, you are still wrong...Your article doesn't prove anything about occupancy on Billionaires Row, not that it is relevant.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago

How is paying $1M a year in Taxes (on your $100M condo example) equivalent to stashing money in a mattress?

This is not the point. Please do not distort what I was saying.

[Crawford]

NYC has a progressive "mansion tax" starting at $1 million. For properties above $25 million, it's 4%. NYC also has the nation's highest income taxes on the wealthy. Also, high end buildings almost never allow sublets/investment units.

So it makes no sense to park your wealth in high-end NYC RE unless you actually need to be in NYC, which is why NYC has a lower share of empty homes as opposed to, say, London, or Miami. I doubt the relatively low property taxes are much of an enticement, as they're still sky high compared to anywhere outside the U.S.

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

This is not the point. Please do not distort what I was saying.

Then what exactly is the point? I'm guessing you don't have one.

Hiding money under your mattress effectively means the money isn't doing anything - it's not making you money, it's not being put to work, and not contributing to society in any way, shape, form.

$1M in property taxes is directly contributing to the City.

[Crawford]

Oh, and the transfer tax in NYC is 1.425%. So when a rich dude buys a NYC penthouse, the city is getting millions right off the bat, due to mansion tax + transfer tax.

[iheartthed]

FYI, I went back to find one of the ads I saw:

Key Details
Upper West Side, NYC
Condominium
$65,000,000
Maintenance/CC: $13,200
Monthly real estate tax: $10,813
Approx. square footage: 5,902 sf
Last updated: 12/2/2019
ID: 19861806

https://www.bhsusa.com/manhattan/upp...condo/19861806

So the tax assessment is about 1%.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago

Then what exactly is the point? I'm guessing you don't have one.

Hiding money under your mattress effectively means the money isn't doing anything - it's not making you money, it's not being put to work, and not contributing to society in any way, shape, form.

$1M in property taxes is directly contributing to the City.

If you don't understand why $100M circulating through the economic system is more beneficial than it being trapped into an empty apartment in Manhattan, then I'm afraid that I don't have the patience or communication skills to explain it.

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

If you don't understand why $100M circulating through the economic system is more beneficial than it being trapped into an empty apartment in Manhattan, then I'm afraid that I don't have the patience or communication skills to explain it.

You're moving the goal post...

1. Under your head scratching logic, wouldn't anyone who purchases a property be guilty of this? or is it just those who own a second home?

2. Someone who is purchasing 100M condo, certainly has hundreds of millions circulating through the economic system, this isn't a zero sum game.

3. All of these supertall in NYC are contributing to teh economy through taxes, and construction jobs.

I seriously can't tell if your comments are based on an Anti-Home Ownership lens or just based on ignorance.

[Crawford]

That 15 CPW listing can't be correct. I highly doubt the unit is assessed that low, and if it were, the taxes would reset anyways following sale.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago

You're moving the goal post...

1. Under your head scratching logic, wouldn't anyone who purchases a property be guilty of this? or is it just those who own a second home?

2. Someone who is purchasing 100M condo, certainly has hundreds of millions circulating through the economic system, this isn't a zero sum game.

3. All of these supertall in NYC are contributing to teh economy through taxes, and construction jobs.

I seriously can't tell if your comments are based on an Anti-Home Ownership lens or just based on ignorance.

It does not cost anywhere remotely near $100M to construct a condo anywhere in Manhattan. It is baffling that a real estate investor does not understand this...

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

It does not cost anywhere remotely near $100M to construct a condo anywhere in Manhattan. It is baffling that a real estate investor does not understand this...

Weird, I never said nor implied that. Really grasping at straws now.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago

Weird, I never said nor implied that. Really grasping at straws now.

C'mon guy, don't bullshit me. You most certainly did imply that a $100M condo is a productive use of capital because "construction jobs and taxes":

3. All of these supertall in NYC are contributing to teh economy through taxes, and construction jobs.

Those construction workers aren't getting anything but a fraction of a fraction of that 100M. They're getting paid about the same that they would to build any other building in the city.

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

C'mon guy, don't bullshit me. You most certainly did imply that a $100M condo is a productive use of capital because "construction jobs and taxes":



Those construction workers aren't getting anything but a fraction of a fraction of that 100M. They're getting paid about the same that they would to build any other building in the city.

The construction of these supertalls is contributing to the economy through hundreds of construction jobs, are you disputing that? I'm not sure what your point is. If the demand for ultra luxury condo highrises comes to a hault, the construction industry will be directly impacted. Are you disputing that?

Again, it is not a zero sum game, these people buying high end condos also have money flowing through the market.

Would you say the same thing about someone purchasing a $10m condo, $1m condo or $500K condo?

[Investing In Chicago]

To recap the craziness going on in this thread, here is where we are:

1. Buying a condo is a "wealth preservation scheme" according to iheartthed

2. the member Handro, is arguing the number of nights the owner of the property spends in the condo is a meaningful stat, because....well, i'm actually not sure why this is relevant.

The question I have on point #1 is every second property purchase a "wealth preservation scheme" or only those over a certain Dollar amount? or perhaps, this only applies to 57th street?

If a middle class family buys a weekend lake house (either financed or with cash) are they participating in this "wealth preservation scheme" as well?

iheartthed, can you please let us know your thoughts?

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago

The construction of these supertalls is contributing to the economy through hundreds of construction jobs, are you disputing that? I'm not sure what your point is. If the demand for ultra luxury condo highrises comes to a hault, the construction industry will be directly impacted. Are you disputing that?

I do not agree. Supertall condo construction in NYC is insignificant to the overall industry in the city.

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago

Again, it is not a zero sum game, these people buying high end condos also have money flowing through the market.

I never said they don't.

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago

Would you say the same thing about someone purchasing a $10m condo, $1m condo or $500K condo?

The point that I am making is that superrich people are protecting their wealth by parking it in these high priced condos. It's the same as if they were parking their wealth in a piece of art or jewelry.

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

The point that I am making is that superrich people are protecting their wealth by parking it in these high priced condos. It's the same as if they were parking their wealth in a piece of art or jewelry.

You now are making even less sense - how is purchasing a 8 figure condo, which will have hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars in annual taxes, the same as purchasing a diamond, which will have exactly zero annual taxes?