Calgary International Airport III

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by YYCguys

But what dollar amount would be considered acceptable to be added to the ticket price to have a complimentary meal served on flights of the length you mention above?

Originally Posted by Zmonkey

IcelandAir does not offer food as part of the price, snacks and meals are to be purchased.

Originally Posted by msmariner

Does AirCanada offer food on 6-7 hour MAX flights?

As mentioned above, WestJet offers meals in both cabins on YYT-LGW ... which is 5h 15min. That's the comparison. Meanwhile, on YYC-KEF, they offer a cookie/pretzels in Economy and a "light meal or light snack" in Premium. There's the point of comparison, and the huge discrepancy. No need to do the 'whattabout airline X' comparison.

As for the comparisons to AC, FI and other airlines ... it's interesting that when WS doesn't align with the service levels of another airline, some will jump in quickly to say "but they simply can't be like airline X, because they need to differentiate and they're doomed to failure if they act like their competitor!". But when WS matches another airline's service level, people will equally jump in to argue "of course, the fact that WestJet's competitor does something proves that's exactly the right service level for WestJet to offer".

As a customer, I really have no idea who WestJet is any longer. Are they an LCC? A ULCC? A mainstream carrier partnered with a massive premium carrier (i.e. DL) feeding both business and leisure traffic into their hubs? Or a leisure carrier focused on the 'premium leisure' segment?? They seem to go by all of these contradictory identities -- and different definitions of WestJet get pulled out opportunistically to explain why they do or don't do some things. Onboard service excludes something? Why, that's because their new strategy is to be a ULCC operating on leisure routes and WestJet customers care only about cheap price! Onboard service includes something? Why, that's because they're a premium leisure carrier operating routes with high consumer expectations! I get whiplash trying to figure out which version of WestJet operates on which route at which time of day, and struggle to figure out what I'll receive as a customer.

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by Tobuz

As mentioned above, WestJet offers meals in both cabins on YYT-LGW ... which is 5h 15min. That's the comparison. Meanwhile, on YYC-KEF, they offer a cookie/pretzels in Economy and a "light meal or light snack" in Premium. There's the point of comparison, and the huge discrepancy. No need to do the 'whattabout airline X' comparison.

As for the comparisons to AC, FI and other airlines ... it's interesting that when WS doesn't align with the service levels of another airline, some will jump in quickly to say "but they simply can't be like airline X, because they need to differentiate and they're doomed to failure if they act like their competitor!". But when WS matches another airline's service level, people will equally jump in to argue "of course, the fact that WestJet's competitor does something proves that's exactly the right service level for WestJet to offer".

As a customer, I really have no idea who WestJet is any longer. Are they an LCC? A ULCC? A mainstream carrier partnered with a massive premium carrier (i.e. DL) feeding both business and leisure traffic into their hubs? Or a leisure carrier focused on the 'premium leisure' segment?? They seem to go by all of these contradictory identities -- and different definitions of WestJet get pulled out opportunistically to explain why they do or don't do some things. Onboard service excludes something? Why, that's because their new strategy is to be a ULCC operating on leisure routes and WestJet customers care only about cheap price! Onboard service includes something? Why, that's because they're a premium leisure carrier operating routes with high consumer expectations! I get whiplash trying to figure out which version of WestJet operates on which route at which time of day, and struggle to figure out what I'll receive as a customer.

Its not hard to figure out what level of service you get in terms of food. You get nothing unless you go to Continental Europe or Asia. That is it. That also isn't new.

KEF is being treated like the Caribbean, Hawaii, Costa Rica, all which have similar flight lengths. Costa Rica flight is over 8 hours and there is no free meal. Hasn't been since it was launched.

Not sure why this is confusing, of all the things WestJet has done recently, this one is actually consistent with what they have always done.

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by Zmonkey

Its not hard to figure out what level of service you get in terms of food. You get nothing unless you go to Continental Europe or Asia. That is it. That also isn't new.

…

Not sure why this is confusing...

Well, let’s see. First of all, the UK is not in Continental Europe.

They’re an island nation, considered to be part of Europe — but not Continental Europe.

The other island nation that’s also considered to be part of Europe?

Iceland.

Yep, that makes WS service levels super straightforward and consistent.

Next, I’d love to hear the non-confusing explanation about why, in Premium on some longer duration North America routes, WestJet sometimes does full, proper meals in Premium and - quite arbitrarily- sometimes only hands out packaged snacks in place of a meal.

[peytol]

It's pretty clearly laid out right here.

https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/inflig...erages#economy

I took a look at Deltas food and beverage page for comparison, they offer a meal on international flights over 6.5 hrs, which seems pretty reasonable. Even if it was a cold wrap, or an elevated snack box similar to what United and delta sell on domestic. LIR and PUJ to YYC is a long ways with no food.

I don't know much about catering, but if your speaking about premium meals out of places like YQQ-PVR, I don't think its hard to imagine why gate gourmet doesn't have a kitchen in Comox. But especially with the Sunwing take over, they will need to come up with a good solution for catering premium out of small stations like Gander and Comox. It would be interesting to know how they could do that with any type of consistency with the rest of the network.

From what I understand if the plane was doing say, YYZ-CUN-YQR, if there is no company (or WJ is to cheap) to take the fresh catering dishes from YYZ in YQR, you cant leave them to go moldy on the plane, so that is another problem that may effect catering on that whole route. Stations like YXE and YQR have a decent number of flights though, so maybe they have catering.

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by Tobuz

Well, let’s see. First of all, the UK is not in Continental Europe.

They’re an island nation, considered to be part of Europe — but not Continental Europe.

The other island nation that’s also considered to be part of Europe?

Iceland.

Yep, that makes WS service levels super straightforward and consistent.

Next, I’d love to hear the non-confusing explanation about why, in Premium on some longer duration North America routes, WestJet sometimes does full, proper meals in Premium and - quite arbitrarily- sometimes only hands out packaged snacks in place of a meal.

All meals within NA are duration based for Westjet.

851 Miles. Fly that distance non stop you get a meal in premium.
225-850 Miles you get a light snack box.

What Westjet does that can be confusing is offer both premium & Business in North America. Business gets a meal no matter the duration of flight.

All of the above has been true for about a decade now (it was updated when Westjet got its 767's and again for the dreamliners).

Again, you may be confused but Westjet which has been all over the place in lots of areas, has left their meals rules basically the same for a long time now.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by msmariner

What does the competition offer on similar flights? Does IcelandAir offer hot food on its flights to YVR or SEA? Does AirCanada offer food on 6-7 hour MAX flights? I would say food for purchase would be common

AC (Rouge no less) offers complimentary food on YYZ/YUL-KEF. A snack and breakfast on the eastbound, a meal and a snack westbound.

Icelandair doesn't have any complimentary food on any of its flights. That's even worse than WS. At least WS has food to mainland Europe.

At the end of the day, people love to complain against AC, especially Rouge, when it is clearly a notch or two above the rest.

I think WS needs to look at what AC is doing and match it. If their website says they offer complimentary food to Europe, then KEF flights should get free food as well, as Iceland is in Europe. Unfortunately, all they need to do in order to keep not offering food to KEF is add an asterisk next to Europe and mention "except flights to KEF".

Sadly, the direction in which AVH has been steering WS tells me they will do the latter, and not the former.

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by Zmonkey

All meals within NA are duration based for Westjet.

851 Miles. Fly that distance non stop you get a meal in premium.
225-850 Miles you get a light snack box.

What Westjet does that can be confusing is offer both premium & Business in North America. Business gets a meal no matter the duration of flight.

All of the above has been true for about a decade now (it was updated when Westjet got its 767's and again for the dreamliners).

Again, you may be confused but Westjet which has been all over the place in lots of areas, has left their meals rules basically the same for a long time now.

Except there’s this … they’ve come up with a very controversial exception to their North America meal rules which has p’d off a lot of their Premium customers and frequent fliers.

Select flights over 2.5 hours will not receive a hot meal. A selection of retail snacks will be served with your choice of beverage.

So customers on “select” fights don’t get a meal. When it’s not convenient for WestJet, they don’t serve meals in Premium on flights where the length/duration does qualify it for a meal.

Supposedly it’s because they don’t want to engage catering companies in some stations, so some (but not all) flights operating out of those stations don’t get catering. Even though they do meet the distance/duration threshold for meals to be served in Premium.

You buy Premium for a flight that should have a meal — and the FA hands you a couple of “retail snacks” instead of a meal.

Totally arbitrary. Quite inconsistent. And, yes, confusing.

And FWIW, the rules have not stayed consistent over the past decade. Pre-pandemic, Premium received cold meal plates on shorter 737 flights (such as YYC-YWG). They increased the threshold for meal service, eliminating that cold meal for shorter flights. Now, those have been reduced to the little snack box with a bag of nuts.

[hollywoodcory]

Speaking of Icelandair in a recent media presentation, they listed YYC as a possible 321LR destination.

https://ml-eu.globenewswire.com/Reso...4-0a4378d44e63
(Its on slide 60/65).

[People_talking]

Are we sure that the route isn't to Edmonton? It doesn't specifically mention YYC.

Would be cool to see them here nonetheless.

[CloudInspector]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

Speaking of Icelandair in a recent media presentation, they listed YYC as a possible 321LR destination.

https://ml-eu.globenewswire.com/Reso...4-0a4378d44e63
(Its on slide 60/65).

Not exactly. There’s a line that could possibly be pointing to YEG, YYC or even YWG. My bet would be a return to YEG.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

Speaking of Icelandair in a recent media presentation, they listed YYC as a possible 321LR destination.

https://ml-eu.globenewswire.com/Reso...4-0a4378d44e63
(Its on slide 60/65).

Two thoughts:

1. WS starting YYC-KEF (+all the other routes to Europe it serves) will negatively impact the chances of FI starting YYC.

2. FI doesn’t need the A321LR to start YYC. The Max is more than capable of flying the route today.

I see YUL is on there as well. Highly doubt they’re going to come back to Montreal, after recently having exited the market. So I’ll take that map with a grain of salt.

Some other interesting slides on there though. Especially the ones that compare all the airlines based on their EBIT and RASK/CASK ratios. AC seems to be killing it this year!

[hollywoodcory]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Two thoughts:

1. WS starting YYC-KEF (+all the other routes to Europe it serves) will negatively impact the chances of FI starting YYC.

2. FI doesn’t need the A321LR to start YYC. The Max is more than capable of flying the route today.

I see YUL is on there as well. Highly doubt they’re going to come back to Montreal, after recently having exited the market. So I’ll take that map with a grain of salt.

Some other interesting slides on there though. Especially the ones that compare all the airlines based on their EBIT and RASK/CASK ratios. AC seems to be killing it this year!

I indeed agree the chances of FI flying here are pretty slim, hence why I said "possible". The dot could even be YEG, but it seemed a bit too south.

[People_talking]

It does seem very south especially when you look at it compared to vancouver and seattle.

If the WS flight does well this year maybe we could see them try to get some action on the route though.

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by CloudInspector

Not exactly. There’s a line that could possibly be pointing to YEG, YYC or even YWG. My bet would be a return to YEG.

Seems way too far away to be YWG. But I can certainly see how it looks like it's YYC (almost at its actual location) or YEG, although they probably wouldn't go head to head with WS now.

[Justanothermember]

Looks like the AC Ottawa flight is seasonal and not year-round based on the schedule. Wikipedia however seem to refuse to accept that fact, no matter how many times to prove it to them

[hollywoodcory]

WS filed a pretty big S24 schedule update this week. As well as extended its schedule into next winter.

As expected DTW is going daily, ATL going close to double daily. A few surprises too like DEN also going daily too. Will summarize later.

The biggest noteworthy thing is it looks NRT might be going year-round, with the schedule pushed into November at least 2x weekly. BCN also extended into the first 2 weeks of November too like FCO.

[Justanothermember]

WS booking page shows nothing bookable past 8 October next year, and the schedule doesn't show any of the changes you've mentioned.

Where are you getting your info from?

[hollywoodcory]

Originally Posted by Justanothermember

WS booking page shows nothing bookable past 8 October next year, and the schedule doesn't show any of the changes you've mentioned.

Where are you getting your info from?

The OAG. You can see the schedule changes using flight view.

[hollywoodcory]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

WS filed a pretty big S24 schedule update this week. As well as extended its schedule into next winter.

So looks like it was only modified to June 30. I guess they are updating it in batches now.

*These changes were filed in the OAG / should hit WS booking site later today. They already appear in the GDS via DL codeshares. OAG schedules can viewed here: https://www.flightview.com/flighttracker/ by route & date*

ATL - Up to 2x daily
DTW - 1x daily (Changed to morning dep)
DEN - Up to 1x daily
BNA - Up to 1x daily
PHX - Up to 3x daily
LAS - Up to 4x daily
ORD - Up to 5x weekly
BOS - Up to 5x weekly
AUS - Resumes April 28
IAD - Resumes May 20
SEA - Changed to noon / 19:30 dep

[YYCguys]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

SEA - Changed to noon / 19:30 dep

Hopefully on the 737 again and not on the Q400!