Are most Canadians happy with Canada?

[SignalHillHiker]

Definitely agree with the overall point that Canada is building particularly awful suburban shit, but a lot of Europe is as well. I instinctively react to stucco the way others here react to vinyl - it reads in my mind as a fire-retardant foam that’s supposed to be covered by cladding. It looks as cheap and run-down to me as visible insulation/plastic wrap. And holy shit they love it in suburban Europe.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Definitely agree with the overall point that Canada is building particularly awful suburban shit, but a lot of Europe is as well. I instinctively react to stucco the way others here react to vinyl - it reads in my mind as a fire-retardant foam that’s supposed to be covered by cladding. It looks as cheap and run-down to me as visible insulation/plastic wrap. And holy shit they love it in suburban Europe.

agreed. Yet Europe (and a few places in North America) has wonderfully dense cities centres (and first-rate train/transit infrastructure, museums, etc.) to compensate for the banality of the burbs. Whereas many North American city centres are often comprised of stark glass towers and streets where the sidewalks are rolled up at 6pm. Sort of the worst of both worlds. And yes, there are some city centres in Europe that are awful, and some wonderful city centres in North America (QC, for one) but there is definitely a pattern. Of course, whether Europe would be what it is without the historical building/street legacy is quite another question (I suspect that without these historical vestiges, it would be more like NA).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

Yeah especially since the 1980s Canada's SFH architecture has been embarrassingly bad. WTF is up with this fake grey stone/grey brick/beige accents in today's new suburbs? Makes me wanna puke when I compare to what's happening in England, Germany and Holland. Here's a very conservative English architecture firm specializing in SFH developments: https://www.nparchitects.co.uk/portfolio/ Where in Canada can you find new suburbs that look like https://www.nparchitects.co.uk/portf...oad-cambridge/ or https://www.nparchitects.co.uk/portf...rton-3-houses/ or https://www.nparchitects.co.uk/portfolios/mill-common/ ?

Builders here struggle to get the basic proportions right!

I feel like Canada's turning into a cheap suburb of the third world instead of a suburb of London or Glasgow.

I am not sure I agree about *residential* suburban architecture. Most of those examples you've given aren't particularly inspiring, and even if some are good those ones tend to be prestige one-off residential projects featuring one or a few homes only, as opposed to mass-produced residential districts. (The fact that we do a lot of mass-produced housing might be a shortcoming, I will admit that.) But in terms of prestige single projects, we do that here too. In every metro area you can find that.

Overall, I may be biased but I still like the look of my house (and the look of most houses in its category in Canada or the US) better than the look of comparable housing in Europe.

Our suburban residential streets may not be optimal but they do feel more human-scaled than equivalent suburban streets with SFHs in most parts of Europe which are basically short canyons with walls or hedges or both hiding the houses from view.

When I think of how bad our suburbs are relative to those in Europe (and I do think about that a lot), I think of our super-wide arterial roads with incredibly complex signalized intersections (that ironically suck in terms of moving traffic efficiently) lined with strip malls and big boxes surrounded by acres of parking).

[Truenorth00]

I'm no fan of suburban anything. But, in terms of what is being discussed here, I would argue that we're out of touch with most Canadians, who quite like our shitty, drab, inaccessible suburbs.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I'm no fan of suburban anything. But, in terms of what is being discussed here, I would argue that we're out of touch with most Canadians, who quite like our shitty, drab, inaccessible suburbs.

I'd definitely agree when it comes to housing, but I'd curious to know more about commercial areas and how they're viewed. (I assume many people value their "convenience", but their aesthetics?)

[urbandreamer]

My point is NP Architects design some of the worst new housing in the UK. Most stuff is much better whereas Canada's highend custom homes often look worse than UK's worst. Even dull builders in England have a sense of proportion, material, detail and trim.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I'd definitely agree when it comes to housing, but I'd curious to know more about commercial areas and how they're viewed. (I assume many people value their "convenience", but their aesthetics?)

Canadians don't seem to be big on aesthetics in my experience. And our sense of individualism means we're loathe to criticize aesthetics of property owned by somebody else (commercial or otherwise).

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

My point is NP Architects design some of the worst new housing in the UK. Most stuff is much better whereas Canada's highend custom homes often look worse than UK's worst. Even dull builders in England have a sense of proportion, material, detail and trim.

But outside of forums like these, regular canucks don't seem to give a damn.

[urbandreamer]

And yet historically Canadians were into aesthetics: pre1970 is where I draw the line. What happened in the 1970s that lead to the state we're in today?

I blame Walmart, Costco, Home Depot, cable tv home shows, importation of third world values, marketing departments trying to not offend anyone with "neutral" colours like beige and grey - I recall a coworker renovating a beautiful red brick 1950s bungalow by painting the interior and exterior grey because "neutral sells" according to real estate shows on TV - and lazy greedy ignorant developers and buyers; and most importantly, real estate agents and brokers: they'll stoop to new lows to sell any property.

[Nouvellecosse]

Suburbanism (well, our specific style of suburbanism) is definitely another issue I have with Canada. There's just too much of the country with mostly identical buildings, overly wide roads, and an excess of surface parking. And there are many people who seem totally incapable of imagining anything any different. People act as if the current trend is just a part of nature that evolved along with us for thousands of years.

[ghYHZ]

My house has Vinyl Siding and looks no different than most others in the neighborhood .....buts it's comfortable and it's mine! I have a nicely landscaped yard with a garden.

There's a Canadian Tire, Sobeys and Walmart down the street that can meet most of my needs. If I want something more upscale....those stores aren't far away.

I have a job. When I was briefly off.....I received money from the government and I know a major medical event will not bankrupt me.

It's going to be cold and snow this winter and I'll curse about having to re-shovel the driveway after the plow fills it back in.....but the sun will come out the next day and I'll be thinking what a great day....and head off for some skiing.

Covid is pretty well under control here without major spikes....... and I have no problem wearing a mask

Could life be better? Sure.....but all in all I think I've got it pretty good here in Canada when you look at the chaos going on south of the border!

[jonny24]

Those Brit houses linked are ugly - you could find lots here that are better or worse, depending on your tastes.


To the overall point - How many times have you thought "I'm lucky I live in Canada?"

Whether it be natural disasters, political upheaval, care for the poor, functioning of society, international relations - it's not hard to look around the world and think,

I'm lucky I live in Canada.

Sure, we have our own problems. Every country does. And not everyone will be happy with it - but many are also spoiled. But through history, decent government, relatively accepting scoiety, good natural resources, and probably an element of chance, we've managed to carve out a really good part of this world, and I'm happy to be part of it.

We just need to make sure we maintain it - with long term views to self sufficiency, innovation, and looking after what we have. Not that we need to be isolationist, but we should invest in ourselves over exporting, where possible. We should maintain control over our food supplies and standards. We should see the value in funding programs that keep people healthy, sane, and productive.

Canada is relatively great, lets not ruin it for short term dollar- or vote-chasing.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Suburbanism (well, our specific style of suburbanism) is definitely another issue I have with Canada. There's just too much of the country with mostly identical buildings, overly wide roads, and an excess of surface parking. And there are many people who seem totally incapable of imagining anything any different. People act as if the current trend is just a part of nature that evolved along with us for thousands of years.

Around metro Halifax for some reason there's been a dramatic shift toward modern architecture even in much (most?) of suburbia that I didn't expect. There's even some okay looking commercial suburban development whereas back around 2000 or earlier it was essentially junky looking faux historic. Clayton Park is going to get weird with fake Georgian plastic columns on strip malls next to some quite decent modern construction.

I don't have a good handle on the entirety of the 905 belt (mostly I go to the eastern parts, maybe others are different) but it seems to still be in faux historic mode.

Metro Vancouver suburbs tend to be pretty good, probably because land is so expensive and even the cheapest detached house is now almost a luxury good. I don't find that the suburban UK looks better than newer development in metro Vancouver. In fact I am not really convinced there are many metros in countries like the UK or France that seem better or more advanced than Vancouver. I have not been to Scandinavia though; maybe those cities are just nicer and make Canada look less advanced.

I think the low point in metro Vancouver development is actually some of the condo pods along suburban arterials, with townhouses and detached houses looking better and having a nicer pedestrian scale on average.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

I have not been to Scandinavia though; maybe those cities are just nicer and make Canada look less advanced.
.

Their central cores tend to be quite nice and attractive and the area that is like that makes up a higher percentage than similarly "nice" areas do in Canadian cities.

Their nicer "suburbs" often resemble Canadian "exurbs" in certain parts: think of areas like this in West Vancouver https://www.google.com/maps/@49.3561...7i13312!8i6656, or areas beyond Lower Sackville outside Halifax like Beaverbank, or the Gatineau hills exurbs like Chelsea and Cantley. But usually with better and more attractive amenity zones and better transit service.

And another segment of their suburbs is usually dominated by commieblock towers, often populated by poorer people, new arrivals, etc.

There isn't much middle ground suburbia like Markham or Laval.

[jigglysquishy]

Vinyl siding is ugly as sin and only belongs in a trailer park or industrial site.

[MolsonExport]

two tickets to paradise:

gazette

[esquire]

Originally Posted by someone123

Around metro Halifax for some reason there's been a dramatic shift toward modern architecture even in much (most?) of suburbia that I didn't expect. There's even some okay looking commercial suburban development whereas back around 2000 or earlier it was essentially junky looking faux historic. Clayton Park is going to get weird with fake Georgian plastic columns on strip malls next to some quite decent modern construction.

I agree with your take that suburban design is improving. For about the last 5 years or so there has been a noticeable level of improvement, and many of the homes that are going up now in suburban developments actually look pretty decent. Or at the very least they're getting somewhat better than before.

The period from about the late 80s to the early 00s was IMO the low point for home design in these parts... every house was a pink stucco monstrosity that looks like it got lost on its way to Tucson. These days we are getting much more interesting and appealing designs in suburban residential projects, both in SFHs and MURBs. That said, the commercial developments such as strip malls and the like are still largely junk.

[SignalHillHiker]

We're not getting any better. This is one of the newest areas of St. John's, and a typical example of our suburbia since SFH replaced duplexes in the 70s-80s:



(BTW, in a completely unexpected twist, the City is now spending a fortune trying to develop traffic calming measures for this neighbourhood lol. I mean, you can't make this shit up)

The most prestigious newer developments have significantly changed the look, but they're just as foreign and generic:



If we must have SFH, I'd rather they look more traditional, such as these types of subdivisions around the city:

[urbandreamer]

Taylor Wimpey's Greater Manchester suburban homes are conservative but still much better than anything I've seen in Ontario: https://www.taylorwimpey.co.uk/find-...nce=20#/page/2

eg: https://www.taylorwimpey.co.uk/-/med...E843C67058A42D

kitchens are much better too: https://www.taylorwimpey.co.uk/-/med...7F533EE61FCC35

These are $400k homes

I like these flats in Germany:
https://www.engelvoelkers.com/en-de/...801807.42_exp/

Where can I buy into a precon luxury suburban development with homes looking like Canadian versions of this Spanish architecture?
https://www.engelvoelkers.com/en-es/...796638.42_exp/

[davee930]

Originally Posted by jigglysquishy

Vinyl siding is ugly as sin and only belongs in a trailer park or industrial site.

There's no excuse for it. It's absolute garbage. Stucco isn't much better either. It's like a brick layer decided to grout the whole building to save money.