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  #61  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2020, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Got it.



Wanted to loop back to this discussion. The charts that Steely put up illustrate the point I was making before. Pre-1980 Detroit was a tall skyline for that era. By my rough count, only NYC and Chicago were well ahead by 1980. It's just most of the +150m construction occurred after 1980, which coincided with Detroit's fall out of the top 5.
True, Detroit was certainly declining by the 80s skyscraper boom...

... but have you heard anything about Pittsburgh’s economic/population fortunes in the 1980s? Take a look what Pittsburgh built in the 1980s during massive decline at economic depression levels.

Take a look at what Cincinnati built in the 80s (on a smaller scale than Pittsburgh) vs what Cleveland built or what Buffalo built or what Detroit built. Why?
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  #62  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2020, 3:33 PM
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Originally Posted by pj3000 View Post
Take a look at what Cincinnati built in the 80s (on a smaller scale than Pittsburgh) vs what Cleveland built or what Buffalo built or what Detroit built.
ok, let's take a look at the skyscrapers those cities built in the 80s.


400+ foot skyscrapers built between 1980 and the early '90s (the overrun extension of the late 80s building boom):


Cleveland:

1. Key Tower ---------------- 947'
2. 200 Public Square ------- 658'
3. One Cleveland Center --- 450'
4. Fifth Third Center -------- 446'
5 .PNC Center --------------- 410'



Pittsburgh:

1. BNY Mellon Center ------ 725'
2. One PPG Place ------------ 635'
3. Fifth Avenue Place -------- 616'
4. One Oxford Centre ------- 615'
5. EQT Plaza ----------------- 430'



Milwaukee:

1. 100 East Wisconsin --------- 495'
2. Milwaukee Center ----------- 426'
3. 411 East Wisconsin Center - 408'



Cincinnati:

1. Scripps Center ----------- 468'
2. Center 600 Vine --------- 418'
3. Chemed Center ---------- 410'



Detroit:

1. One Detroit Center ------ 619'
2. 150 West Jefferson ------ 455'



St. Louis

1. Metropolitan Square --- 593'
2. One AT&T Center --------588'


source: CTBUH



i'm not quite sure why you keep using cincy as some counter example to your point about the alleged lack of great lakes skyscrapers. cincy is no great shakes in the height game (basically the same size skyline as milwaukee). st. louis is another non-great lakes rust belt city that used to be one of the country's largest cities, but has long had an under-performing skyline.

the only real point that you have is that pittsburgh has been a bit of a skyline over-performer through the decades (and even then, cleveland was hanging with pittsburgh in the '80s), and i would agree with that point. two hypotheses that immediately jump out at me for that:

1. geography: the physical land area of the golden triangle is quite small (0.6 sq. miles). when a downtown runs out of land, which direction does it traditionally go?

2. few black people: pittsburgh did not receive a large amount of Great Migrants from the south, and hence didn't see the same level of white flight/core abandonment as a city like detroit did, for example.




if you want to dismiss chicago as a great lakes outlier, then i'm dismissing pittsburgh as a non-great lakes rust belt outlier.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Feb 25, 2020 at 2:11 AM.
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  #63  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2020, 3:41 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pj3000 View Post
True, Detroit was certainly declining by the 80s skyscraper boom...

... but have you heard anything about Pittsburgh’s economic/population fortunes in the 1980s? Take a look what Pittsburgh built in the 1980s during massive decline at economic depression levels.

Take a look at what Cincinnati built in the 80s (on a smaller scale than Pittsburgh) vs what Cleveland built or what Buffalo built or what Detroit built. Why?
This is also a factor:
http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?cityID=477
http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?cityID=1728
http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?cityID=470

There were 31 +10 story towers built in Southfield, MI alone in the 70s and 80s, and less than 20 built in downtown Detroit during that same timeframe.
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  #64  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2020, 5:15 PM
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Originally Posted by The North One View Post
Key Tower has really aged poorly. Terminal tower looks like a soviet government building and not in a good way.

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  #65  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2020, 6:40 PM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Longitude is bullshit - Grande Prairie, Alberta (east of the Rockies, in the Canadian Prairies) is further west than San Diego, California (on the Pacific Ocean), but you can't claim the former is "more West Coast".

Same with the Florida East Coast - it's on the Atlantic, but it's as far west as Ohio. Eastern Ohio isn't "more Eastern" than Jacksonville.

Please let's all agree to never use longitude in those arguments ever again.

And if Ohio isn't the Midwest, what is it then? New England? The South? The Great Plains? The Interior West?
I love how cities on the Pacific coast of Chile like Concepcion are actually further east than cities on the Atlantic coast of the southeastern U.S.
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  #66  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2020, 7:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I love how cities on the Pacific coast of Chile like Concepcion are actually further east than cities on the Atlantic coast of the southeastern U.S.
I believe Chile is farther east than the entire east coast of the United States.
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  #67  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2020, 7:26 PM
ATXboom ATXboom is offline
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Growing up in northern Ohio my greatest affiliation was a Great Lakes state or rust belt state before Midwest.
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  #68  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2020, 7:56 PM
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i guess i'll have to repost this for the people who don't read through a thread before posting in it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post

I should have stated this in the first post, but for the purposes of this thread, I used the 4 US macro regions as they are defined by the US census bureau.

If you don't like their definitions, take it up with them, but let's please not have this thread devolve into yet another regional taffy-pull idiocy festival.




Source: wikipedia
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  #69  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2020, 2:06 AM
Citylover94 Citylover94 is offline
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I love how cities on the Pacific coast of Chile like Concepcion are actually further east than cities on the Atlantic coast of the southeastern U.S.
It is very close but the easternmost point of Chile does seem at least according to google maps to be about .5 degrees further east than the easternmost point of Maine.
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