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  #81  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2011, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by The Chemist View Post
My point is, the high speed train is at least competitive with airfare, often much cheaper than airfare.
That's not your point. Your point is some sort of anti-Western rant regarding media coverage of China. "Their quoting of the China Daily article is incredibly misleading (as usual for Western media when reporting about China)". Why are you afraid to own up to the fact that what you have previously posted is plainly untrue. As for your new "point" that high speed rail is competive to airfare, well the orginal article you linked to doesn't even make this comparison. Look, if your going to play the role of old China hand you need to at least get your facts straight.
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  #82  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2011, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyett View Post
That's not your point. Your point is some sort of anti-Western rant regarding media coverage of China. "Their quoting of the China Daily article is incredibly misleading (as usual for Western media when reporting about China)". Why are you afraid to own up to the fact that what you have previously posted is plainly untrue. As for your new "point" that high speed rail is competive to airfare, well the orginal article you linked to doesn't even make this comparison. Look, if your going to play the role of old China hand you need to at least get your facts straight.
You don't think it's misleading to quote only the highest price on the route when tickets are available for less than a quarter of that price?

As I said in my original post, it'd be like complaining about the price of airfare on some route, but only quoting the business class price.
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  #83  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2011, 8:18 PM
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China Dominates ASEAN Talks, Links to Singapore With High-Speed Rail


http://www.fastcompany.com/1718727/c...igh-speed-rail

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In China's ever-growing regional and global dominance, the country has announced that construction will begin this year on a portion of the much anticipated high-speed rail line reaching all the way to Singapore, by way of Cambodia, Vietnam, Malaysia, and Laos. The move will bolster trade between the superpower and Asia's smaller players, as well as fortify the Guangxi Zhuang autonomous region--of which Nanning is the capital--as China's main center of Asian trade. And the main center of trade in all of Asia, for that matter.

"The construction of the railway between Nanning and Pingxiang, a city near China's border with Vietnam, will start in the second half of this year," reports China Daily. The cost will be about $3 billion.

The Nanning-Singapore Economic Corridor will link Phnom Penh in Cambodia, Hanoi in Vietnam, Bangkok in Thailand, Vientiane in Laos, Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia and Singapore--cities that will thus become trading centers for the region and will most likely see additional economic development boosts due to the rail link. It's easy to imagine local enterprises popping up to cater to travelers and tradesmen.

Portions of the corridor are already in place in one form or another--in some cases highways are complete and in others domestic rail lines have been linked between countries. But this week's announcement that construction will begin on one of the final links--Nanning to Pingxiang--signifies the importance China places on making Nanning its Southeast Asian trading hub.



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  #84  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2011, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Coyett View Post
Yes, and surely the vast majority of Chinese support that assertion. Nevertheless, it would appear that the operator needs to make some adjustments to its fare structure in order to appeal to a larger demographic.
So far the only operator of High Speed trains in China is China Railways (brand CRH). One way tickets between Beijing and Tianjin (120 km) were 58 Yuan in december (have the tickets hanging on my wall), that is a little less than 9 dollars today. So, yes, they do adjust the prices, and probably subsidises train travel a bit. But I'm not sure the state is that much into getting their money back in the short term.
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  #85  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2011, 5:16 PM
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1,000 km per hour high speed train is in develop: report


http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90...1/7276967.html

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The Southwest Jiaotong University in China’s Sichuan Province is endeavoring developing the vacuum tube high speed train with a speed of 600 to 1,000 kilometers per hour and is expected to release the train model in the next two to three years, according to Voice of China, the China’s national radio, on Jan. 30.

- In order to build the higher speed train, scientists proposed a new vacuum tube technology. Its principle is to build up an isolated vacuum tube separating from the outside air to run the maglev train in it. The vacuum maglev train is then capable of running in a higher speed without wheel track friction and with much lower air resistance.

- It was reported that this technology is expected to be widely adopted in around 2030, when the traveling time between Beijing and Guangzhou is expected to be cut into one to 2.5 hours to run the 2,300 kilometers distance.
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  #86  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2011, 6:05 PM
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I wonder if they plan to adopt existing maglev technology in the vacuum tube, or develop the whole new system.
If they succeed, anyway, I'll be admirative.
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  #87  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2011, 7:23 AM
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We're barely planning to build HSR, yet China is now scratching the surface of vactrain technology. With the nonsensical state of politics in this country, i'm not surprised by these developments.
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  #88  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2011, 4:21 PM
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I hate to say this, but the twenty-year timeframe for evacuated tube transport reminds me a lot of the twenty-year timeframe we had for nuclear fusion from the 1950’s through the 1980’s (now you hear forty-fifty years). Even though that’s not a very good comparison—the engineering barriers for evacuated tube transport are far less than for fusion—just because something’s feasible doesn’t mean something’s cost-effective.

It’s worth remembering that France was developing the Aérotrain at the same time it was developing the TGV—although the oil shock was the big thing that killed it, I think the TGV would have still won out in the end because it’s hard to get any simpler than steel wheel on steel rail
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  #89  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2011, 4:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Beta_Magellan View Post
I think the TGV would have still won out in the end because it’s hard to get any simpler than steel wheel on steel rail
The only way to realize the full potential of vactrain tech is probably to make it a maglev. Sooner or later, I would think friction and vibration is gonna restrict steel wheel on steel rail trains, whereas maglev would be smoother.
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  #90  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2011, 6:03 PM
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But you’re assuming that there will be a enough market for “vactrains,” which look to me like a complex, expensive technology. They might not be worth the cost of improved speed—look at the fate of the Concorde. Even if its reputation was tarnished by the 2000 crash, there doesn’t seem to be much of a drive for a new supersonic transport.
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  #91  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2011, 6:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Beta_Magellan View Post
But you’re assuming that there will be a enough market for “vactrains,” which look to me like a complex, expensive technology.
I agree.
This technology will be viable only if the alternative - air transport - is seriously compromised. Congested airports ? Prohibitive cost ?
In any case, "vactrains" would work on very specific routes.
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  #92  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2011, 8:22 PM
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The other problem with "vactrains" is that the track would have to be impossibly straight - curves with radii of kilometers (10s? 100s?). You'd almost have to put the entire thing underground or on a causeway, like the new Chuo Shinkansen. Speaking of which, maybe they can upgrade the japanese maglev train to have a vacuum tube over it in the future.
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  #93  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2011, 8:29 PM
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And there would have to be at least 1000 mile tubes. Unless there are only tubes through part of the routes.
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  #94  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2011, 10:16 PM
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Looks like it won't be something small :



More info about this technology :

http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/01/pro...-per-hour.html
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  #95  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2011, 2:06 AM
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Originally Posted by M II A II R II K View Post
1,000 km per hour high speed train is in develop: report


http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90...1/7276967.html
RAND did a study / proposal on this back in I forget...roughly 1972
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  #96  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2011, 4:20 AM
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I'm not sure if this belongs here or in its own thread.

China's railways world leader, except in service
y ELAINE KURTENBACH
AP Business Writer
Feb 2, 4:05 AM EST

SHANGHAI (AP) -- Fed up after waiting in vain to get train tickets home for the lunar new year, migrant worker Chen Weiwei became China's latest Internet sensation, standing unclothed except for his gray jockey shorts and socks, after he stripped and shouted in protest.

Chen's frustrations are shared by tens of millions of other Chinese.

China's 91,000 kilometers (56,400 miles) of railways are the world's longest and, in some cases, the fastest. The country's drive to develop high-speed rail technology rivals its space program in terms of national pride and importance.

But the annual scrum for tickets home for the year's major festival - the world's biggest annual migration involving 230 million people - highlights the wide gap between showcase Chinese infrastructure and the often abysmal services available to the public.

....

China will invest 700 billion yuan ($106 billion) in railways construction this year, railway officials say, as it works toward its goal of having 13,000 kilometers (8,060 miles) of high-speed rail in place by the year's end.

That will include a 1,400 kilometer (870 mile) high-speed link between Beijing and Shanghai, the country's commercial capital, that will halve travel time to less than five hours. It is due to open in June - a year ahead of schedule. A test run on the line in early December set China's latest rail speed record, of 486.1 kilometers (301 mph).

Having successfully incorporated leading foreign technology into their own research and development, Chinese companies are now competing for projects with top foreign rivals, such as Bombadier and Japan Railways.

But all of that showcase technology has done little to alleviate the struggles of working class Chinese, especially migrant laborers who scrimp and save all year for their one visit back home. With railways running fewer slow, cheap trains, migrants like Chen and Yin often have to try for days to buy a ticket.
...
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  #97  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2011, 4:22 PM
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It's also a shame for travelers--the slow overnights were great ways to avoid spending money on a hotel and make the most of your time at your destinations.
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  #98  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2011, 4:56 AM
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Two videos of the new CRH380BL trainset departing... Awesome propulsion sounds XD:
Video Link

Video Link

Enjoy =D
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  #99  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2011, 7:29 PM
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On the wrong track?

http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulli...011%7Cgulliver

JUDGING from the votes they have cast with their bottoms, China's business travellers need little persuading of the merits of high-speed rail. Since the high-speed link between Wuhan and Guangzhou opened in December 2009, for instance, over 20m have chosen the zippier trains, while the number of competing daily flights between Guangzhou and Changsha (on the route to Wuhan) has dropped from over 11 to three. Yet whether plans to double high-speed coverage by 2020 are an unmitigated good thing for China, which already has more high-speed rail than any other country, is a different question.

It is one that decision-makers have largely sidestepped thanks to the peculiarities of China's political system. But of late debate has spilled over into the public realm. Detractors complain that high-speed rail is too expensive for the Zhang in the street. Migrant labourers, 230m of whom are expected to make the journey home during Spring Festival, are not in enough of a hurry to pay a premium for speed, they argue. (Or as Patrick Chovanec of Tsinghua University puts it with a dose of economese, "The bulk of the long-distance passenger traffic, especially during the peak holiday periods, is migrant workers for whom the opportunity cost of time is relatively low.") While some travellers are having such a hard time getting tickets home this holiday season that they have unveiled their underpants in protest, it is reported that on one line $352 luxury sleeper tickets are going begging.

This mismatch raises questions about the $300 billion being thrown at high-speed rail this decade. Many newly added lines are making hefty losses and many are thought to be operating at under half capacity The Chinese Academy of Sciences, an influential official think-tank, seems to be in the sceptics' corner: fretting about unsustainable levels of debt, it was reported in November to have recommended the government reconsider its plans. Chinese leaders were said to have ordered a review, and construction of a Maglev line between Shanghai and Hangzhou has since been reported "shelved".

Some economists make even more dismal arguments. Mr Chovanec attacks one of the main legs of the economic case for high-speed rail in China, that transporting passengers thus would free up track desperately needed for shifting coal. Much of China's fuel travels by road: a 62-mile traffic jam outside Beijing lasting 10 days last August was only the most visible sign. But if fast trains are out of reach for the masses, there will be little or no relief for either rail or road networks. Critics say the proliferation of expensive trains has pushed poorer travellers back onto the roads, clogging them with 70,000 more buses this Spring Festival, although hundreds of extra trains have also been laid on. Improving China's languishing logistics network for freight would be a better use of the cash, Mr Chovanec posits.

Yet it would be premature to assume that China will not hit or even exceed its stratospheric targets. The Shanghai-Hangzhou Maglev was reported "shelved" in 2007, too, so its difficulties are not new; compounding them, there is now a separate high-speed (though slightly slower) connection between the two cities. China's mandarins are clearly not insusceptible to economic sense, and individual projects could bite the dust. But Chinese Communist Party leaders' economic priorities are defined by a different kind of cost-benefit analysis than that familiar to politicians in capitalist democracies.

What if some investments in whizzy rolling stock are loss-making? Famously unconstrained by electoral time horizons, they may be counting on demand for high-speed rail travel to rise with their citizens' wealth. And, as in industries like telecoms before, China's national railway-equipment champions will use the revenues drawn from the world's biggest market—where they are making decent profits—to support their move into overseas markets. It is a move already visible in recent export deals with the US.

Then there are the political payoffs. Even uneconomic construction work creates employment, enhancing social stability at a time when the global economy remains fragile. High-speed locomotives look jazzy, and offer yet more glittering evidence of the Communist party's modernisation of China. And the promise of placing China at the heart of a Eurasian rail network, as officials hope to do, hurts neither China's prestige, nor its ruling party's. Any trouble down the tracks would have to look pretty dire to derail all that.
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  #100  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2011, 10:07 PM
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