A 3-Part Plan to Rebuild New York's Old Penn Station

[CCs77]

Originally Posted by donoteat

Calatrava's building required new and innovative structural design, and innovative mechanical systems which were partially implemented and then abandoned due to impracticality (the folding wings), plus exacting tolerances for minimal aesthetic effect, etc. etc.

Old Penn was basically a bunch of steel beams and big rocks stacked on top of each other, with some plaster on the inside. (and the foundations are still there!)

I think it's more doable than anyone is willing to admit...

Have you actually seen pictures of the old Penn Station? If we are talking of rebuilding it as it was, It implies a lot of artisan work that few people does nowadays and it would be very expensive to do. When they build it, more than a hundred years ago, all that artisan work was relatively affordable, that is not the case anymore. Also all that bunch of rocks happens to be pretty expensive. Have you seen the glass ceilings of the old Penn? so you think building that huge complex of glassed vaults can be done by any unskilled worker? And again, not to mention that wathever you do there, you have to do without closing the busiest train station of the U.S. And I better not talk of how much will it cost just to acquire and demolish all the real state above it.

Of course it is doable, the thing is it won't cost even near to $1,5 billion.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by CCs77

There is no way that reconstructing the old Penn Station is going to cost just 1,5 billion dollars. Just look at what cost the Calatrava hub, 4 Billion, or the Fulton Transit Center, over 2 Billion. And that is only talking about the cost of the actual construction, Not talking in account the cost of acquiring real state that not only includes MSG, but also a large office building.

Just the stone used in the original station would have an enormous cost today. Besides the added cost and complications of building it above a very busy train station.

The demolition of the original Penn Station was a tragedy, but don't expect it to be rebuilt.

In 1930, James B. Duke found his pockets bulging with too much cash and he decided to give some of it to a university that would change it's name to his. He found one--a small Methodist school in North Carolina named Trinity College--and handed oer enough cash to transform the place.

What did they do? They bought a stone quarry. They ran a railroad line into the center of what was to be the new campus (in the case of Penn Station, that already exists). They set emissaries to Europe to hire unemployed stone masons and other craftsman skilled in the obscurities of ancient buildings.

The committee had $21,254,833.69 total funds at its disposal. It expended . . . $16,373,421.84 for the new Gothic West Campus. Included in the figures are the purchase of 5,080 acres of land . . . . The Duke Construction Company under the general supervision of A. C. Lee, Chief Engineer, constructed . . . a West Campus of 12,508,000 cubic feet. There is little wonder that a headline in the local newspaper once trumpeted "Largest Building Permit in the History of the South Issued Here Today."

http://www.opendurham.org/buildings/...ty-west-campus


http://www.opendurham.org/buildings/...ty-west-campus

Result: a recreated Gothic world:


https://www.google.com/search?q=Duke...PfT1hpSEhpGaM:

And of course we know large swaths of certain European cities have been recreated from what was rubble in the wake of WW II.

It can be done. It does take will. And maybe a little help from a few of New York's mega-billionaires.

[mrsmartman]

Could New York's Pennsylvania Station actually get rebuilt the way it was?

Originally Posted by treehugger

I usually dislike reproductions and reconstructions, and believe that one can mix new and old. But Penn Station is a different case; it is righting a wrong, giving us back something that should never have been taken away. I wonder what Ada Louise Huxtable would have thought. What do you think?

Read More: https://www.treehugger.com/green-arc...ay-it-was.html

[mrsmartman]

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[mrsmartman]

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[mrsmartman]

Penn Station's West End Concourse finally opens to the public
It marks the first phase of the transformation of the James A. Farley Post Office building

Originally Posted by Curbed

Following a few delays, Penn Station’s West End Concourse has finally opened to the public, NY1 has learned. Part of the overall revamp of the much-reviled station, the West End Concourse connects the James A. Farley Post Office Building to Penn Station, underground...

Read More: https://ny.curbed.com/2017/6/15/1580...se-post-office

[mrsmartman]

Source: nj.com

[mrsmartman]

The Grand Central Terminal was built as the best railroad terminal in the world but its capacity was permanently constrained by its terminal layout.

The Pennsylvania Station was built as the through station of the Cross Manhattan Railroad and its construction required razing several city blocks, causing some disruptions to the neighborhoods.

[mrsmartman]

The above New York Penn Station track map highlights one of the most complex interlockings on the Northeast Corridor – A Interlocking – the critical sorting mechanism that routes trains entering and exiting Penn Station from the Hudson River tunnels and the Long Island Rail Road’s West Side Yard across 21 tracks. A Interlocking, the area shaded in orange, is where the infrastructure renewal work will take place this summer.

Source: https://media.amtrak.com/new-york-pe...newal-program/

[mrsmartman]

Penn Station Repair Work Ahead of Schedule After First Week
Officials remain focused on completing work by Labor Day

Originally Posted by The Wall Street Journal.

An eight-week program of extensive repair work to tracks at New York Penn Station, which has disrupted the lives of tens of thousands of commuters, is running slightly ahead of schedule.

Amtrak’s chief operating officer Scot Naparstek said during a conference call Friday afternoon that the national passenger railroad has completed all of its...

Read More: https://www.wsj.com/articles/penn-st...eek-1500059180

[aquablue]

Originally Posted by mrsmartman

Could New York's Pennsylvania Station actually get rebuilt the way it was?





Read More: https://www.treehugger.com/green-arc...ay-it-was.html

They did this kind of stuff in Germany after the war! Why not in NYC.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by aquablue

They did this kind of stuff in Germany after the war! Why not in NYC.

Who do you think should pay for rebuilding it?

Madison Square Garden would have to be torn down first. Where do you think it should be moved to? Who do you think should pay for moving it?

There's more involved than just spending money to rebuild Pennsylvania Station.

Landmarks and Buildings disappear and aren't replaced all the time.
Pennsylvania Station disappeared long ago, it's too late to rebuild it.
Maybe in the future NYC will tear down Madison Square Garden and build something new in its place, Just don't expect anything like the old Pennsylvania Station. More than likely the new building will look more akin to the new Miami Central - with skyscrapers soaring above the tracks.

[aquablue]

Originally Posted by electricron

Who do you think should pay for rebuilding it?

Madison Square Garden would have to be torn down first. Where do you think it should be moved to? Who do you think should pay for moving it?

There's more involved than just spending money to rebuild Pennsylvania Station.

Landmarks and Buildings disappear and aren't replaced all the time.
Pennsylvania Station disappeared long ago, it's too late to rebuild it.
Maybe in the future NYC will tear down Madison Square Garden and build something new in its place, Just don't expect anything like the old Pennsylvania Station. More than likely the new building will look more akin to the new Miami Central - with skyscrapers soaring above the tracks.

Obviously other cultures give more precedence to aesthetic cultural heritage than America does! In germany such a thing might be an option like how they reconstruct some old buildings from the war. Yeah, obviously I don't expect it to happen here because this isn't germany! However, if the political will was there.. Also, I'm not Dolan, so it's pointless speculating on where MSG might move, etc, etc... If it were me, I'd put it where Javitz is and move Javitz to Queens (sunnyside yards). !

[mrsmartman]

Memories of Penn Station

Originally Posted by ALEXANDER D. BLUMENSTIEL

To the Editor:

Re “Penn Station Now and Always,” by Zach Gross (Op-Ed, nytimes.com, July 10): In the 1940s, my father was contracted to decorate New York’s Pennsylvania Station for Christmas. Seventy-two years have passed, but I remember his taking me with him and his crew when I was 4.

He pulled his trailer, piled with wreaths, roping and the other decorations he had created, down the ramp to the plaza between the Seventh Avenue subway and what was then the U.S.O. His crew unloaded the trailer, lugged the decorations into the main station, climbed and hung the wreaths and roping from the iron columns into the hushed vastness, with me asleep on a burlap bag of spare princess pine...

Read More: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/24/o...n-station.html



A layered image of Penn Station showing both past and present. Credit Zach Gross for The New York Times

[mrsmartman]

Penn Station as a Dining Destination? Yes, Really

Originally Posted by The New York Times

“I think Penn Station’s great,” Mark Rouse said.

“It’s awesome. It’s fantastic,” said Tim Craft of the food at Penn Station...

Read More: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/28/n...oast-subs.html



Will Whitworth serving food at Penn Station East Coast Subs to Kevin Lubwama, from left, Ethan Mulira and Wasswa Mulira in Cincinnati on July 18. Credit Andrew Spear for The New York Times



A Philadelphia cheesesteak with fries at a Penn Station East Coast Subs. Credit Andrew Spear for The New York Times



Jeff Osterfeld is the founder of Penn Station East Coast Subs, which has grown into a chain of more than 300 outlets in 15 states. Credit Andrew Spear for The New York Times



A Penn Station East Coast Subs in Columbus, Ohio. Neither New York nor New Jersey have the food chain, despite having Penn Station train terminals. Credit Andrew Spear for The New York Times

[caligrad]

Even though I would loooooovvvvvveeeeee to see Penn Station rebuilt..... I would rather the city/state of New York spend the 10 billion on rebuilding its current subway system. Rebuild the tunnels, rebuild the stations. Get some new trains. Because currently. NYC may have the biggest subway system in the Americas but its falling apart....And quickly.

[Busy Bee]

Penn Station subs are gross btw. At least that's my opinion...

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by caligrad

Even though I would loooooovvvvvveeeeee to see Penn Station rebuilt..... I would rather the city/state of New York spend the 10 billion on rebuilding its current subway system. Rebuild the tunnels, rebuild the stations. Get some new trains. Because currently. NYC may have the biggest subway system in the Americas but its falling apart....And quickly.

Been "falling apart" for a long time but somehow still functions pretty well (better than most newer, shinier systems). I recall the 1970s when it was really gross and dangerous. Actually better now.

[mrsmartman]

Man Threatened to 'Kill All the Americans' in Penn Station, DA Says

Originally Posted by DNAinfo

MANHATTAN — A Staten Island man was arrested for threatening to "kill all the Americans" in Penn Station, prosecutors said.

Mohamed Nasar, 37, was riding in a car outside 2 Pennsylvania Plaza about 12:20 p.m. when he signaled to a passenger in another car to roll down his window Monday, according to the Manhattan District Attorney's Office...

Mohamed Nasar was arrested for threatening to massacre Penn Station straphangers, officials said.

Read More: https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/201...n-station-nypd

[mrsmartman]

Penn Station project shows Amtrak's efficiency, and need for infrastructure investment

Originally Posted by philly.com

I am a loyal Amtrak rider. And I am proud of it. That’s why I am pleased to see that, in spite of great initial fears, the Infrastructure Renewal Program underway at New York City’s Penn Station has been going smoothly.

The Renewal Program consists of Amtrak removing the equivalent of six football fields’ worth of track and installing new track and switches all before Labor Day. That’s no small feat. The mere thought of it — and the possible disruption that some thought would occur — caused New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo to dub it “the Summer of Hell.” I am pleased to see that several weeks into the program, the governor’s prediction has not come true, thanks in large part to the planning by Amtrak in conjunction with Long Island Railroad and New Jersey Transit...

Read More: http://www.philly.com/philly/opinion...-20170809.html