Elevated train lines and commercial corridors

[Antares41]

All the elevated lines in The Bronx (NYC) are bustling commercial corridors. Jerome Avenue, White Plains Road, Westchester Ave they all been busy for many decades. Third Ave actually became less commercial when the el was removed back in the 1970's. With the Bronx approaching 1.4 million they're probably a few city planners that wish it were still around.

[memememe76]

I'm confused by the question. Are you talking about a neighbourhood that is near a subway station with an elevated platform? If so, I would imagine there would be several examples of successful neighbourhoods.

Or are you asking about a still-successful (or even improving) neighbourhood that has to deal with an elevated platform without benefiting from a directly adjacent stop/station? In that case, I would introduce the No. 3 Road in Richmond, BC. The businesses between the three Canada Line stations have remained successful. Personally speaking, I am more likely to walk along No. 3 Road now with the Canada Line. Before, I would've probably driven from one business to another. I think it helps that the 3 stations aren't that far apart.

[Chicago103]

Originally Posted by harryc

No problem here -
In the Loop


River North

If we are talking about commercial corridors directly below the tracks then the Loop and River North are the exceptions. On the north side the el tracks often parallel and/or are very close to vibrant commercial corridors but the tracks themselves are over alleys, the same is true of the pink like and the green line south of the Loop (nicknamed the "alley el"). The Green Line west of the Loop does go directly over Lake Street but west of the Kennedy it goes from a warehouse district to bombed out ghetto, not much commercial activity right under the tracks. The Orange Line is built on previously existing railroad right of ways through light industrial areas. The Red Line south of the Loop is on the median of the Dan Ryan Expressway. The Blue Line west of the Loop is on the median of the Eisenhower Expressway and northwest on it's way to O-Hare it is on the median of the Kennedy Expressway.

Commercial corridors directly under elevated tracks are actually far more common in the outer boroughs and upper Manhattan in New York City. In large part this is no doubt because they don't have alleys to run elevated tracks down.

[UPChicago]

Originally Posted by harryc

No problem here -
In the Loop


River North

Those areas are not really shining examples they under-perform when compared to their respective areas, especially Wabash.

[harryc]

Lake and Cicero - looking E down Lake st.

west of the Kennedy it goes from a warehouse district to bombed out ghetto,

[tdawg]

Here are some shots of the Ditmars Blvd area (taken by Michael Minn from his photography site: michaelminn.net/)

In the background you can see the elevated Amtrak/Acela tracks that loom over the neighborhood as well.




Amtrak approach to the Hellgate Bridge.


23rd Avenue with the Ditmars Terminal in the background:


Bonus shot of Astoria Park and the famous pool and Amtrak/Hellgate Bridge approach.

[M II A II R II K]

Those eyesores wouldn't likely get built in US cities these days. Although having access to a subway station would increase property values, it could be cancelled out by the visual pollution and noise.

[Baronvonellis]

I thought there is an elevated line being built down a street in Honolulu now or soon?

[ardecila]

Yeah, that's right. I wonder to what extent the Honolulu proposal was influenced by the strong Asian ties to the place? Surely many Honolulu residents are familiar with the big concrete viaducts in many Asian cities. That's a different way of thinking than America, where elevated structures are instantly a blight, eyesore, etc

[tdawg]

they may be eyesores to you but to some people like myself they add character and giver riders a unique perspective of the city. I can see from 1WTC all the way to the George Washington Bridge from the platform at my station.

[fflint]

Eysore or not, BART is still building miles and miles of elevated tracks, although they run in their own ROW rather than over the street.

[Antares41]

I believe Miami's lines are almost entirely elevated with a good amount of commercial activities around most stations.

[Rizzo]

Wabash



and as a bonus...though not commercial

[Shawn]

The Yamanote Loop and the Chuo Line in Tokyo are likely among the world's best examples of this. Beneath both you will find countless restaurants, retail shops, convenience stores, and in some places, playgrounds for kids.

The best restaurants and izakaya around Tokyo Station and neighboring Yurakucho and Shimbashi Stations are beneath the elevated Yamanote.

[Metro-One]

There are fantastic shopping districts built under and around elevated lines throughout Japan. Even under elevated highways in a few spots.

In Canada, the only somewhat real example would be #3 road in Richmond. Here, the streetscape has actually become much better with the guideway. Other parts of skytrain largely follow highways, rail corridors, or zig zag over random areas such as residential and industrial lands.

[Chicago103]

Originally Posted by harryc

Lake and Cicero - looking E down Lake st.

That is what I meant, post-industrial and the residential areas that are right along the tracks are nearby are pretty bombed out until you get really close to downtown and even there it is mostly warehouses until you get east of the Kennedy near the Loop.

Originally Posted by Hayward

and as a bonus...though not commercial

That is an example of Chicago's "alley El's", no doubt that is somewhere on the north side, there are major commercial areas along the streets where there are stops (i.e. Armitage, Fullerton, Belmont, etc. but those are streets that cross the tracks, in general streets are not right underneath the tracks with a few aforementioned exceptions. Aside from the Loop itself there are really no areas in Chicago that look exactly like those pictures of the Ditmars area of Queens, NYC.

[Larry King]

Originally Posted by Shawn

The Yamanote Loop and the Chuo Line in Tokyo are likely among the world's best examples of this. Beneath both you will find countless restaurants, retail shops, convenience stores, and in some places, playgrounds for kids.

The best restaurants and izakaya around Tokyo Station and neighboring Yurakucho and Shimbashi Stations are beneath the elevated Yamanote.

interesting.

Are the trains loud? Do they shake the buildings?

Do you have pics?

Thanks

[Perklol]

Originally Posted by Antares41

All the elevated lines in The Bronx (NYC) are bustling commercial corridors. Jerome Avenue, White Plains Road, Westchester Ave they all been busy for many decades. Third Ave actually became less commercial when the el was removed back in the 1970's. With the Bronx approaching 1.4 million they're probably a few city planners that wish it were still around.

Third avenue really lost it after the el came down but don't tell that to Robert Moses or Cuomo.

Originally Posted by M II A II R II K

Those eyesores wouldn't likely get built in US cities these days. Although having access to a subway station would increase property values, it could be cancelled out by the visual pollution and noise.

Hmm disagree. Not all tracks are ugly. The elevated tracks on post #36 look pretty clean and welcoming... the light brown/tan color really really helps,

[harryc]

Originally Posted by Larry King

interesting.

Are the trains loud? Do they shake the buildings?

Do you have pics?

Thanks

The El is loud, loud enough to pause conversation as it goes over, but not too bad. EXCEPT at the curves, where the trains run slower than the designed track and the wheels "slip" - the screeching is painful.

[sharkfood]

I have a related question - - especially for the New York and Chicago posters:

Are residential apartments viable next to an elevated train line?
I saw examples of residential in some of the pictures, but I want to hear from people who actually live here.

In Philadelphia, there is a school of thought that residential next to an elevated line is out of the question.