How would you solve the housing affordability crisis?

[Truenorth00]

High speed rail. Seriously.

Just look at any European city. They have fast regional rail service to areas about 150km away. They allow the middle and upper middle class to get something affordable in smaller urban centres and take the pressure off the central cores.

Who wouldn't want to live in Belleville or Kingston and keep earning a Toronto salary? HSR would to London via Waterloo as proposed would make Waterloo a 1 hr ride from downtown Toronto. And would make London 30-40 mins from Waterloo. You'd get lots of tech folks with families moving to London. Some of the singles who decamp to Toronto and still commute to Waterloo would probably stay in Waterloo if they know there's a train every hour to downtown Toronto that only takes them an hour.

Or look at Montreal-Ottawa. No reason there can't be high speed rail with 1-2 intermediate stops, with healthy communities sprouting up at those stops. Similarly, put HSR in Calgary-Edmonton corridor and take pressures off both those cities.

[1overcosc]

There's a proposal for a high speed rail line in Europe that would connect Vienna, Bratislava, and Budapest, the capitals of Austria, Slovakia, and Hungary. By fascinating geographic circumstances, all 3 capitals are very near the national borders with the other countries, meaning that the 3 cities are actually quite close together:

-Vienna to Bratislava: 55km (about the same distance as Toronto-Hamilton)
-Bratislava to Budapest: 160km (about the same distance as Toronto-Belleville)
-Vienna to Budapest: 215km (about the same distance as Toronto-Kingston)

These relatively short distances are enough that a high speed rail connecting all 3 cities can basically transform them into a single transnational metropolitan area. It will be fascinating to see if it ever gets built. Though it looks like the kooky hyperloop fetish has hit them too, unfortunately. https://www.dezeen.com/2016/03/11/hy...enna-budapest/

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by whatnext

And even if you try to argue this only a Vancouver/BC and Toronto problem, federal policy is being made on the basis of those two large markets. Therefore the whole country is impacted, whether you like it or not.

Incorrect. Federal policy is not made by any place in Canada except Toronto and Montreal alone. As far as Ottawa is concerned Vancouver might as well be Whitehorse.

Vancouver {and all of BC for that matter} has been grotesquely overvalued compared to all other Canadian markets for a generation since the Hong Kongers started arriving in the early 1990s. It has grown progressively worse so today Vancouver has become more of a resort than a city. It was however completely off the Ottawa political radar for the entire time which is why nothing was ever done to cool the market. It only attracted Ottawa's attention when it started to effect Toronto and if Toronto prices slide it wouldn't matter if BC prices doubled in the next year, it will again be a none issue in Ottawa.

ALL economic and social policy is dictated from Toronto & Montreal, always has been and always will be. You can love or hate that but it doesn't change the fact that it's true.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Who wouldn't want to live in Belleville or Kingston and keep earning a Toronto salary? HSR would to London via Waterloo as proposed would make Waterloo a 1 hr ride from downtown Toronto. And would make London 30-40 mins from Waterloo. You'd get lots of tech folks with families moving to London. Some of the singles who decamp to Toronto and still commute to Waterloo would probably stay in Waterloo if they know there's a train every hour to downtown Toronto that only takes them an hour.

I'm definitely in favour of better transportation infrastructure but this scenario doesn't sound very good. An hour is a long commute and that is just for the people who happen to live right on the line. Wouldn't it be a lot more efficient to focus on transportation within the Toronto area, combined with more intensive land use?

I think the biggest planning issue in Toronto and Vancouver (i.e. not counting issues like interest rates which are beyond local control) is the notion that there should be large tracts of land covered in low density detached housing that should forever be shielded from redevelopment. Fixing this is a regulatory issue that would actually save money in the long run. It would also open up new areas for transit development.

[GreaterMontréal]

Canada is ripe for a severe correction.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

High speed rail. Seriously.

Just look at any European city. They have fast regional rail service to areas about 150km away. They allow the middle and upper middle class to get something affordable in smaller urban centres and take the pressure off the central cores.

Who wouldn't want to live in Belleville or Kingston and keep earning a Toronto salary? HSR would to London via Waterloo as proposed would make Waterloo a 1 hr ride from downtown Toronto. And would make London 30-40 mins from Waterloo. You'd get lots of tech folks with families moving to London. Some of the singles who decamp to Toronto and still commute to Waterloo would probably stay in Waterloo if they know there's a train every hour to downtown Toronto that only takes them an hour.

Or look at Montreal-Ottawa. No reason there can't be high speed rail with 1-2 intermediate stops, with healthy communities sprouting up at those stops. Similarly, put HSR in Calgary-Edmonton corridor and take pressures off both those cities.

Really, just normal rail that Europe has would be a massive step up. 160km/hr and not impeded by freight is almost unimaginable to the average city dweller here.

[lio45]

I'd absolutely love to see a Sherbrooke-Montreal hyperloop, but I'm honest enough to admit I don't think it would be unarguably 100% positive in the grand scheme of things. If anyone can now teleport to the big city, the big city kinda ceases to be what it used to be.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by lio45

I'd absolutely love to see a Sherbrooke-Montreal hyperloop, but I'm honest enough to admit I don't think it would be unarguably 100% positive in the grand scheme of things. If anyone can now teleport to the big city, the big city kinda ceases to be what it used to be.

This. Leave high speed rail, hyperloops or whatever else to inter-city travel, the same way we have planes now. Improved transit is more than adequate to allow people to live in cheaper areas. If people start living in one metro area and working in another en masse the whole concept of cities pretty much disappears.

[wave46]

The problem with policy at a federal level is that Canada is not a one-size-fits-all country. At the extremes you have places like Toronto and Vancouver, while at the other you have places like Kapuskasing, ON, Thompson, MB and Prince George, BC.

The feds are a blunt instrument.

The problems Toronto and Vancouver are facing are similar the world around. Pretty much every major city in the world (New York, San Francisco, London) is experiencing runaway real estate valuations.

The optimal solution would be for countries that are the sources of these wealthy individuals to reform their internal laws/government policies so that offshoring wealth to protect it from government seizure would not be a concern. Pigs will fly before that happens, which is a pity.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by wave46

The problems Toronto and Vancouver are facing are similar the world around. Pretty much every major city in the world (New York, San Francisco, London) is experiencing runaway real estate valuations.

I was going to disagree and point out Vancouver's case is abnormal, but then I realized you agree with me - it's not one of the "major cities of the world" by any stretch. Its real estate scene should not look anything like Manhattan, City of London (UK) and Hong Kong.

Canada and BC are very welcoming to questionable Chinese capital so Vancouver property has turned into a popular BitCoin-like vehicle to take money out of the PRC. This kind of phenomenon easily snowballs - the more people are doing it, the more interesting it is for others to join the movement.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by someone123

I agree. The richest aren't very affected. Actually they tend to gain from high housing costs. But other people tend to have to follow the rich around, so there is some pull toward higher cost areas. Wealth and income inequality exacerbates this, since more of the economy becomes geared toward services for the rich.

Why is it irrational not to want to move away from your friends and family? If you know 50 people who live near you, it's really unlikely that you'll be able to coordinate a move to another city without leaving some people behind.

That's where I'm in a unique situation that many in Toronto are not in. I am not from here, I have no family here, and the only tie to the community I have is my job, which in theory I shouldn't have to go to an office to do since it's entirely online work. Most of my social life is also not here. At the same time, Toronto is just not a city I'm particularly enthusiastic about; even though I'm a Millennial, the megacity urban lifestyle is just not of much interest to me. I'm more of an Ottawa type - midsize city close to lots of outdoor activities that can be done in actual natural areas.

But, as the cost of living continues to increase here while my salary stays stagnant, I'm thinking seriously about moving elsewhere while keeping the same job, in order to cut down my costs and move closer to the people I know. Others in Toronto may have grown up here, or are otherwise attached to the city due to family or other community ties, and aren't going to see moving as an option to escape high prices.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by wave46

The problems Toronto and Vancouver are facing are similar the world around. Pretty much every major city in the world (New York, San Francisco, London) is experiencing runaway real estate valuations.

Vancouver is not like any of those other cities. We have a small population, a poor economy, and the highest prices of all of those cities except London (I think... gets a bit complicated in UK with factoring costs etc).

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Pinion

Vancouver is not like any of those other cities. We have a small population, a poor economy, and the highest prices of all of those cities except London (I think... gets a bit complicated in UK with factoring costs etc).

There is a theme of foreign citizens from countries with less democratic governments purchasing properties in these cities and inflating housing costs to the detriment of locals.

The degree to which Vancouver is affected is based on proximity and demographic makeup.

[Delusio Cogno]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

That's where I'm in a unique situation that many in Toronto are not in. I am not from here

Your story is not as unique as you think. Many people who live in Toronto were not born there.

In 2011, 51% of Toronto residents were born outside of Canada, and one in 12 had arrived in the country in the previous five years. One-third of the total population of immigrants in Toronto had arrived in Canada within the previous 10 years.

How many others were born in other areas of Canada and chose Toronto for school or work? Toronto was not their only option . It was a choice they made.

As I am not fond of crowds, I migrated from central Canada to the underpopulated paradise called the maritimes. I paid under 100 k for my house within walking distance to downtown restaurants.

If anyone wants to live in Toronto they have the right to make that choice. Just don't ask for handouts to help build your million dollar equity.

[mistercorporate]

-self deleted-

[ssiguy]

Vancouver has made it's issue of the housing crisis quite clear...........it desperately wants the housing crisis to continue as it is a huge money maker for Vancouver and BC. Housing takes up a whopping 18% of BC's GDP which is more than oil & natural gas combined do in Alberta.

It is very disingenuous to compared Vancouver to Toronto. The reality is they are in different leagues. A SFH in Vancouver is a full 60% more expensive than Toronto. An average one bedroom is approx. $200/month more and a 2 bedroom a fill $1000 more. This is why employers in Vancouver can't get or keep labour both skilled and unskilled

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

A SFH in Vancouver is a full 60% more expensive than Toronto. An average one bedroom is approx. $200/month more and a 2 bedroom a fill $1000 more. This is why employers in Vancouver can't get or keep labour both skilled and unskilled

I'm curious where you are getting these numbers from? A quick search on MLS of two comparable areas, North Van vs The Beach show them to be virtually the same price wise. But rental prices are more like you said. There does seem to be a huge shortage of rental properties in the city.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Delusio Cogno

Your story is not as unique as you think. Many people who live in Toronto were not born there.

In 2011, 51% of Toronto residents were born outside of Canada, and one in 12 had arrived in the country in the previous five years. One-third of the total population of immigrants in Toronto had arrived in Canada within the previous 10 years.

How many others were born in other areas of Canada and chose Toronto for school or work? Toronto was not their only option . It was a choice they made.

As I am not fond of crowds, I migrated from central Canada to the underpopulated paradise called the maritimes. I paid under 100 k for my house within walking distance to downtown restaurants.

If anyone wants to live in Toronto they have the right to make that choice. Just don't ask for handouts to help build your million dollar equity.

What makes my situation unique is that I'm not from here and I have no ties to the community (other than work). Many of the people who have relocated here have built families here. I haven't gotten that far yet.

[Bcasey25raptor]

Tax the ever living crap out of foreign investors and use all money raised from said taxation to fund housing for low and middle income families who live here.

It's obvious we can't kill the housing boom without destroying the economy, our only choice is to limit it's destruction and keep as many people here as possible.

[lubicon]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

Tax the ever living crap out of foreign investors and use all money raised from said taxation to fund housing for low and middle income families who live here.

It's obvious we can't kill the housing boom without destroying the economy, our only choice is to limit it's destruction and keep as many people here as possible.

Driving foreign investment out of the country will solve the problem how?? this country relies on foreign investment, there is not nearly enough capital within our borders. We need to encourage investment, not drive it away.