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  #11821  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2013, 8:20 AM
tovangar2 tovangar2 is offline
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5401 Wilshire

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzilla View Post
Wilshire and Cloverdale. 5401 Wilshire. Building contours retained over the years.

http://www.you-are-here.com/modern/sontag.html
According to David Gebhard and Robert Winter in Guide to Architecture in Los Angeles in Southern California 5401 Wilshire was originally a Spanish Colonial Revival Building from the 20s. (I've spent way too much time over the years staring at the filigree-embossed chimney pot at the apex of the tower tying to figure it out.) They list Marcus P Miller as the architect for the 30s remodel as opposed to Anderson & Norstrom listed by the you-are-here web site. I don't know which is correct.


I can't make out the sign in this highly airbrushed and colored view:

Werner von Boltenstern Postcard Collection, Department of Archives and Special Collections, Loyola Marymount University Library


jasperdo/flickr

Last edited by tovangar2; May 23, 2017 at 11:46 PM.
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  #11822  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2013, 10:33 AM
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kznyc2k kznyc2k is offline
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What a style and what a building. So glad it's survived!
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Politicians, ugly buildings and whores all get respectable if they last long enough.
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  #11823  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2013, 3:26 PM
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GaylordWilshire GaylordWilshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tovangar2 View Post
According to David Gebhard and Robert Winter in Guide to Architecture in Los Angeles in Southern California 5401 Wilshire was originally a Spanish Colonial Revival Building from the 20s. (I've spent way too much time over the years staring at the filigree-embossed chimney pot at the apex of the tower tying to figure it out.) They list Marcus P Miller as the architect for the 30s remodel as opposed to Anderson & Norstrom listed by the you-are-here web site. I don't know which is correct.

I can't make out the sign in this highly airbrushed and colored view:

Werner von Boltenstern Postcard Collection, Department of Archives and Special Collections, Loyola Marymount University Library

The postcard shows the 1935 design for Sontag Drug--a 1935 Times article about the corner's acquisition by Sontag makes no mention of a previous building on the site, but then most of the article is a quote by a Sontag spokesman who was emphasizing the newness of its building. Perhaps a picture of 5401 prior to late 1935 will turn up; if there was a Mediterranean Revival building of some description on the lot, it was most likely by Norstrom & Anderson, who seem to have built mainly in that style. Marcus P Miller was known more for his Streamline and other modern styling--he did the famous Darkroom just to the east and across the street of Sontag Drugs, for one building.

Below is a Times drawing of a planned building that perhaps never came off--there isn't much info as to architect, though this is very much in accord with the work of Norstrom & Anderson. The exact location on the corner of Wilshire & Cloverdale isn't indicated. Maybe it was eventually built elsewhere, but perhaps the project, built or unbuilt, evolved somehow, for some reason, into Miller's Sontag.


LAT
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  #11824  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2013, 4:49 PM
Godzilla Godzilla is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzilla View Post
Wilshire and Cloverdale. 5401 Wilshire. Building contours retained over the years. Previously featured here and other places:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=7169

1939

http://www.ilovelabut.com


1978 seems like yesterday.

Lapl



http://www.ilovelabut.com



Is that a clip-on?


It is somewhat unfortunate that the building's contours are dwarfed by the busyness of the neighborhood. The neighboring buildings (Lee Tower) win the competition for space by a mile. Even clouds can have a dramatic impact. The Black/Gold Security Pacific Bldg suffers the same fate.

As noted elsewhere, if I squint long enough I can imagine seeing a wingtip of Bob's.

Interesting framework covering the exterior of the building across the street - on the NE corner of the intersection. That's a lot of glass brick in jeopardy of light-loss. But I suppose you can't always have your cake and be able to eat it too.

Spills will happen at Simon's. I keep a spare "End-Lock tie" under the rumble seat for special occasions, like running into Mayor Shaw.
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  #11825  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2013, 6:18 PM
Godzilla Godzilla is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckaluck View Post
11739 Victory Blvd, North Hollywood - Originally built in '41. Interesting detail. Could window dissymmetry be original?

google]



The Valley has a tendency to get warm.

Curious what this or similar buildings (built before WW2) did for ventilation and cooling. It is not easy to open glass brick windows for a breeze. Or maybe the glass brick was an afterthought. Air conditioning, although available, may not yet have been a given.
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  #11826  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2013, 9:35 PM
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AlvaroLegido AlvaroLegido is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BifRayRock View Post
[COLOR="Indigo"][SIZE="2"]

Chinatown Barbershop undated
Lapl
I recognize the slope of Marchessault Street, South sidewalk of the short section between Alameda and Los Angeles (to the Dragon Den).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckaluck View Post

Sunset meets Alameda. Late '30s? Maybe the "exit only" sign is one sided? Horseless carriages clearly rule the day.
Lapl
Then it is Marchessault and Alameda, from the Clock Tower of Union Station. Sunset is the next up North.
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  #11827  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2013, 10:15 PM
tovangar2 tovangar2 is offline
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Wilshire and Cloverdale

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire View Post
The postcard shows the 1935 design for Sontag Drug--a 1935 Times article about the corner's acquisition by Sontag makes no mention of a previous building on the site, but then most of the article is a quote by a Sontag spokesman who was emphasizing the newness of its building. Perhaps a picture of 5401 prior to late 1935 will turn up; if there was a Mediterranean Revival building of some description on the lot, it was most likely by Norstrom & Anderson, who seem to have built mainly in that style. Marcus P Miller was known more for his Streamline and other modern styling--he did the famous Darkroom just to the east and across the street of Sontag Drugs, for one building.

Below is a Times drawing of a planned building that perhaps never came off--there isn't much info as to architect, though this is very much in accord with the work of Norstrom & Anderson. The exact location on the corner of Wilshire & Cloverdale isn't indicated. Maybe it was eventually built elsewhere, but perhaps the project, built or unbuilt, evolved somehow, for some reason, into Miller's Sontag.


LAT
Thanks for the clarification. I knew the postcard view wasn't pre the supposed remodel. I just couldn't resist putting it up as it's a good illustration of how one photo can get doctored into day and night shots. Notice too how the building across Cloverdale from Sontag drug is Streamline in one postcard and Spanish Colonial Revival in the other. Signs and awnings come and go too.

I'm guessing the proposed building (above) did get built at 5401 and later remodeled into the Sontag plus the A&P. Three cheers for finding that. If it was built in '26 it would have been due an update by '35 given the location. This is on the SE corner of Wilshire and Cloverdale, later remodeled into The Darkroom/Chandler's Streamline Building.

The facade of the poor, abused Darkroom does have protected status, however the signage was not included in that. I recently saw an article about the sign (which is actually, of course, integral to the design). Some guy rescued it and had it in his apartment (it's missing the "K"). I can't find the link just now. http://www.flickr.com/photos/79761301@N00/2672275949/

Gebhard & Winter also identified 5401 as a Chandler's shoe store. I'm now thinking they may have gotten their corners mixed up as Chandler's was diagonally across the intersection.

Still can't figure out that chimney pot at 5401.

Last edited by tovangar2; Jan 25, 2013 at 9:10 PM.
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  #11828  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2013, 10:59 PM
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We've seen these before but...


Los Angeles High School in transit, 1886

Photo of the Los Angeles High School building, being moved over Temple Street as a couple of people look on. A man standing at the corner of Temple and Broadway (formerly Fort Street) watches a double trolley traveling by, and two people can be seen exiting the Clifton House on the left. The high school building would be placed on Fort Moore Hill on a site north of California Street and west of Hill Street where it would serve for another five years before being functionally replaced by a new structure, the second Los Angeles High School on Hill Street on the brow of Fort Moore Hill over-looking Sunset Boulevard. This original high school building would persist on the Fort Moore Hill site until it is demolished in 1950 to make way for the Hollywood Freeway. Photograph dated 1886.

LAPL



Aerial of Los Angeles, 1887

I've always liked this murky aerial. Aerial photo of Los Angeles on June 27, 1887 taken from a balloon. North is to the left. Note the farmland south of Second Street and east of Main Street to the Los Angeles River. The town's population was a little over 20,000 at this time. The circular form of the Plaza is visible to the center left. Of particular note, Poundcake Hill (look for the stub of Court Street pointing directly at it) is vacated for the coming construction of the new county courthouse which will be dedicated next year, in 1888, while the high school building has been moved and is visible over on Fort Moore Hill just above California Avenue.

waterandpower.org

here are some annotations to make it clearer,


Aerial of Los Angeles, 1887, annotated

Also it is easy to see how the intersection of Hill and Court Streets might be a safe haven for children at play. This from Sarah Bixby Smith's autobiography Adobe Days (1931, Jake Zeitlin), 'North of us were several houses containing children-and here I found my first playmates-Grace and Susie, Bertha and Eileen. The level street at Court and Hill, protected on three sides by grades too steep for horses, was our safe neighborhood playground.'

Also from Adobe Days, 'After a couple of years we built our own house in the same neighborhood on the southeast corner of Court and Hill Streets. It began as a seven-room cottage, white with green blinds to suit father. Later the roof was raised and a second story inserted and the house was painted a more fashionable all-over gray, to suit the ladies.'

The Llewellyn Bixby house was directly across Hill Street from the Bradbury mansion. It can be clearly seen here,


View of Bunker Hill from the Court House roof, C.C. Pierce, ca.1895

Court Street cul de sac (before the installation of Court Flight) is evident. Bradbury Mansion is shown at the intersection of Hill and Court Streets. The Bixby house (two story directly across Hill St. from Bradbury) appears at the center of frame. The Bixby house is partially hidden by trees and is not to be confused with the small cottage here at the very end of Court Street

C. C. Pierce Collection/The Huntington Library/Los Angeles Times
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  #11829  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2013, 11:05 PM
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GaylordWilshire GaylordWilshire is offline
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The architecture firm of Norstrom & Anderson seems to have been very active in L.A. from the mid '20s into the latter half of the '30s. It looks like not a lot of their buildings survive, though one that does is well known:


1932

1955

1968

GoogleSV 2011


El Paseo, Westwood. The backstory:


LAT



A couple of other Norstrom & Anderson survivors:


2121 San Fernando Rd (1936):

GoogleSV
Originally built for the Hemphill Diesel Engineering Schools


6809 Stanford Ave (1937):




Does anyone know if this Westwood Newberry's still stands, if it was ever built?

LAT


No picture, but same question about a small store N&A is reported to have built at 1254 3rd Street in Santa Monica in 1937... couldn't get a street view, but a Google Sat view indicates that it might have Streamline detailing.


Another unknown:

LAT



These were reported to have been planned, but if built, do not now stand:





The following were reported to have been designed and soon to be erected, but all seem to be gone now:

952 Wilshire
3170 Wilshire
615 N Alameda
423-27 Santa Monica Blvd SM
8850 Santa Monica Blvd
9585 Santa Monica Blvd


Top three pics: Daily Bruin/Bison
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  #11830  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2013, 11:18 PM
tovangar2 tovangar2 is offline
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Brennan Hotel Fire

One hundred years ago:

Brennan Hotel, 529 S Main:

lafdblogspot.com

Seven more photos: http://laist.com/2013/01/24/historic...hotel_fire.php

The LA Examiner's thrilling account:
http://lafd.blogspot.com/2013/01/100...s-angeles.html
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  #11831  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2013, 11:19 PM
tovangar2 tovangar2 is offline
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The Darkroom

Here's that link. MONA has the sign now. Counting the days until it's restored:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/79761301@N00/2672275949/

"The" and "K" are missing.

http://www.inherited-values.com/2011...-camera-shops/

Last edited by tovangar2; Jan 25, 2013 at 12:31 AM.
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  #11832  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2013, 1:39 AM
tovangar2 tovangar2 is offline
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Marcus P Miller

BTW GW, do you know if Marcus P Miller did the whole building on the SE corner of Wilshire and Cloverdale or just the shop-fitting for The Darkroom?


Werner von Boltenstern Postcard Collection, Department of Archives and Special Collections, Loyola Marymount University Library


jasperdo/flickr

(Still having fun playing 'Spot the Difference' with these cards, but I guess the main one is the NE corner building.)
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  #11833  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2013, 3:07 AM
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GaylordWilshire GaylordWilshire is offline
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In each of the descriptions of the Darkroom I've seen, the building is made to sound as though it's a stand-alone building; it's hard to tell if Miller just did the facade or a more complete design. He did seem to make a specialty of these few blocks of Wilshire.... He is credited in one 1937 Times article with 5356, between the building at the sw corner of Detroit and the row of buildings that contains the Darkroom. Perhaps he actually did the entire southerly block from Detroit to Cloverdale over time. As for the northerly block, according to reports in the Times, his design for a Union Bank branch at 5351 (nw corner Detroit) seems to have morphed between July and November 1937 into a Melody Lane...


LAPL

LAPL
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  #11834  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2013, 4:25 AM
tovangar2 tovangar2 is offline
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Wilshire & Cloverdale

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire View Post


In each of the descriptions of the Darkroom I've seen, the building is made to sound as though it's a stand-alone building; it's hard to tell if Miller just did the facade or a more complete design. He did seem to make a specialty of these few blocks of Wilshire.... He is credited in one 1937 Times article with 5356, between the building at the sw corner of Detroit and the row of buildings that contains the Darkroom. Perhaps he actually did the entire southerly block from Detroit to Cloverdale over time. As for the northerly block, according to reports in the Times, his design for a Union Bank branch at 5351 (nw corner Detroit) seems to have morphed between July and November 1937 into a Melody Lane...
The Darkroom looks to be just one shopfront in a larger building:

Werner von Boltenstern Postcard Collection, Department of Archives and Special Collections, Loyola Marymount University Library

Hard to tell from gsv now with all the facia boards:

gsv

But the roof still gives it away:

google maps

Neat trick remodeling the building at the NE corner of of Wilshire and Cloverdale without disturbing the rooftop sign:

lapl


originally posted by godzilla

And thx for this. I love "special" doorways:

lapl

P.S. Miller did the building with the weird vertical at the sw corner of Wilshire & Detroit (or just the green one)? Hasn't the corner one come up on the thread before? I seem to remember it was a Kress.


Yes, here it is: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=9819
Godzilla
ID'ed it:

lapl

How I'd love to go down to the Miracle Mile some night with a crowbar and pry all the extraneous crap off it. How does anyone think all the cheap "cosmetic" junk looks better than decently maintained buildings?

I still prefer it to this though. Disney creeps me out.:

www.guidetodisney.com

Last edited by tovangar2; Jan 25, 2013 at 6:14 AM. Reason: add P.S.
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  #11835  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2013, 6:13 AM
tovangar2 tovangar2 is offline
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New tools coming....

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  #11836  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2013, 2:29 PM
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GaylordWilshire GaylordWilshire is offline
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LAT
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  #11837  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2013, 6:28 PM
Godzilla Godzilla is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire View Post
Orchestra music? Baja Marimba! Count me in!

A familiar view, 1930 with some buildings recently discussed (Dyas) and barrel tile roofing. (Yes the image has been posted before, but USC's new format has wiped some of the slate clean.) It may be old, but looking at it does not get old . . . yet.


Pre- Kress and Sontag

USC Digital








1939 - Nine years and a year after the Orchestra packed up its accordion.







Gimme a "K"

All from USC Digital

Last edited by Godzilla; Jan 25, 2013 at 7:07 PM.
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  #11838  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2013, 8:47 PM
BifRayRock BifRayRock is offline
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Bob's Air Mail has flown the coop leaving an empty nest, err parking lot.



1940 Wilshire and Cochran





1940 Wilshire and Cloverdale-Detroit





1940 Wilshire and La Brea



1940 Third Street and La Brea (200 S La Brea: Flowerland)



All USC Digital
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  #11839  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2013, 8:54 PM
tovangar2 tovangar2 is offline
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Miracle Mile

A few more (apologies for reposts):

1928, Wilshire and La Brea looking east. Dyas-Carlton Cafe (opened 1928) at left. Gilmore station on the NE corner with a Security Bank building beyond (pre Clements' black & gold replacement), Bank of Italy (before the name change to BofA) on the right:


1929, looking east from Ridgeley and Wilshire. There's more 'Wilshire Specials' than anything else.


1930, looking west from Sycamore. Wilson Building at center bottom. Desmond's at center left. Tar Pits at upper center. Salt Lake Oil Field at right. Carthay Theater in the distance at upper left center:


1932, The Darkroom/Chandler's building (SE corner Wilshire and Cloverdale) is still Spanish Colonial Revival. Dyas-Carlton Cafe Building lower right corner next to a Standard Station:


all images: http://waterandpower.org/museum/Earl...1925%20+).html

The above and the pix BRR just posted of the Miracle Mile answer the question posed by the below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire View Post

Below is a Times drawing of a planned building that perhaps never came off--there isn't much info as to architect, though this is very much in accord with the work of Norstrom & Anderson. The exact location on the corner of Wilshire & Cloverdale isn't indicated. Maybe it was eventually built elsewhere, but perhaps the project, built or unbuilt, evolved somehow, for some reason, into Miller's Sontag.

LAT
The above drawing is of the building as built on the SE corner of Wilshire and Clovedale, future home of both The Darkroom (1935) and Chandler's Shoes, later given a Streamline remodel.

From Spanish Colonial Revival to Streamline to shapeless hodgepodge:

Werner von Boltenstern Postcard Collection, Department of Archives and Special Collections, Loyola Marymount University Library


gsv

Last edited by tovangar2; Jan 25, 2013 at 10:08 PM.
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  #11840  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2013, 9:16 PM
BifRayRock BifRayRock is offline
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5400 Wilshire south side of street. Probably pre February 1930 (see below)




Continued: Colvin's for Awnings. In the absence of AC, a necessity! I think I remember seeing that same rut back in the '80s! The more things change . . .




All from USC Digital

Last edited by BifRayRock; Jan 25, 2013 at 9:41 PM.
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