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  #121  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2017, 2:35 AM
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Which is great. I hope they start gearing towards new tunnel construction.

I drive into the city every other day for work related business, and the traffic, the delays, they are starting to get me. Its the same shit every single day, and in the places that need lane expansions or the rail lines that need higher service and at a quicker frequency, seem to just lag all the time.

Politically, its good that we have someone in office who can at least get the momentum going.

They can first start by rushing the cashless tolls on the tunnels and GWB. Why the GWB isn't cashless yet is absurd. The tolls cause so much traffic and I'd say more money is lost due to impeding traffic than is gained via the tolls. All that lost time, in which, time is money in the business or transportation (trucking) world.
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  #122  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2017, 2:37 AM
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Originally Posted by CIA View Post
^ It should be very interesting what happens next! A properly funded and operated PATH (and NJ Transit) system should send ridership soaring. It's ridiculously you can board a train a 3am in the morning because the trains are running every 35 min and are packed. Adding one extra train overnight would reduce headways to 20 min. Much better service that would help with the overcrowding situation.
For NJ Transit, they need more express trains. That can help. Some spread out during the day, not just 6:30-7:30am and 5:12pm to 5:37pm routine.

Some during off peak would be nice.

The only thing with the increases service in and investment is that it will unfortunately translate the cost to the rider, which, in NJ transit's case, is already pricey enough. Prices increase, but signal delays don't stop or issues.
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  #123  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2017, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CIA View Post
^ It should be very interesting what happens next! A properly funded and operated PATH (and NJ Transit) system should send ridership soaring. It's ridiculously you can board a train a 3am in the morning because the trains are running every 35 min and are packed. Adding one extra train overnight would reduce headways to 20 min. Much better service that would help with the overcrowding situation.
The PATH overnight service must have a 20 minutes frequency like the NYC subway !!
About of the late night service and the overnight connection between subway (Herald Square) and Path (33rd st), what does mean that the passageway from PATH to NYC Subway N, Q, and R trains closed daily from 11 p.m. until 5 a.m. (use NYC Subway entrance at 34 St & 6 Av) ?
Does mean it that the connection between Path and B-D-F and M is instead possible even after the 11 p.m. ( and 24 hours for the D and F lines ) ? But aren't freely link the BMT and IND lines at Herald Square Station ? Why this difference ?
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  #124  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2017, 1:24 AM
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Has Murphy made any statements on what he plans to do with PATH. This could be huge if there's support.
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  #125  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2018, 6:18 PM
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Read some interesting facts today about the WTC PATH station.

The Calatrava's Oculus cost $3.7 billion and offered no capacity improvements from the perfectly functional temporary WTC station built after 9/11 at a cost of $253 million in 2003 dollars. The Hudson Terminal that existed from 1909 to 1971 when the WTC was first constructed cost $189 million in today's dollars and had greatest capacity with 6 platforms vs. 3 platforms that exist now. That's kinda sad.
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  #126  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2018, 2:39 AM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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^ shrunken service & bloated costs? yep that sounds like our era.
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  #127  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2018, 4:30 PM
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Platform capacity isn't the most important factor for PATH since the existing signal system can't safely accommodate more trains. The new system they're supposed to finish this year will, reportedly, let them run 20% more trains.

Also the Grove St. platform lengthening is supposedly (eventually) coming which well let them run 10 car sets to WTC. Between the two that would enable a meaningful service increase.
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  #128  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2018, 5:19 PM
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Originally Posted by k1052 View Post
Platform capacity isn't the most important factor for PATH since the existing signal system can't safely accommodate more trains. The new system they're supposed to finish this year will, reportedly, let them run 20% more trains.

Also the Grove St. platform lengthening is supposedly (eventually) coming which well let them run 10 car sets to WTC. Between the two that would enable a meaningful service increase.
The signal improvements will help the overall system, but it will only exacerbate the overcrowding problems currently at WTC. They can pump more trains into the station with signal improvements, but the time it takes to load/offload passengers to clear the platform is already at capacity during peak periods. Crappy planning on the part of the PA.

A 5 min delay during rushhour and all hell breaks lose.
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  #129  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2018, 5:33 PM
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I was trying to find pictures of the overcrowding with no luck (maybe due to the strict no picture policy?) but I did find this interesting sketch of the tubes


From uh.edu
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  #130  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2018, 5:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CIA View Post
The signal improvements will help the overall system, but it will only exacerbate the overcrowding problems currently at WTC. They can pump more trains into the station with signal improvements, but the time it takes to load/offload passengers to clear the platform is already at capacity during peak periods. Crappy planning on the part of the PA.

A 5 min delay during rushhour and all hell breaks lose.
Largely a circumstance of the crappy vertical circulation that the PA inexplicably built into the station. I'm not a PA defender at all but the number of platforms isn't the chief problem here.
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  #131  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2018, 5:49 PM
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Originally Posted by k1052 View Post
Largely a circumstance of the crappy vertical circulation that the PA inexplicably built into the station. I'm not a PA defender at all but the number of platforms isn't the chief problem here.
I agree - the time to address it was when they were building and designing the new station. Nothing can really be done now, but it's still a problem and will grow as one as the station's ridership increases.

The biggest priority is the signal improvements followed by 10-car operations. It's just gonna suck for the folks loading and offloading at WTC. The Hoboken platform is fine but the trains to/from Newark can be a mess with just the 7-car trains, how it will be with 10 I don't know.
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  #132  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2018, 7:32 PM
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I just heard the Port Authority is starting a one-year feasibility student for a a new Marion PATH station, to be located west of Journal Square, with the backing of Jersey City Mayor Fulop. The implications, aside from making it easier for commuters to access the PATH train in the area, is that parcels of land may be rezoned to density approaching that of Journal Square.

$5 that this development site gets redesigned with a high-rise or two within the next 3 years with this news.


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  #133  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2018, 1:38 PM
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And more news today. Mega development planned adjacent to the Harrison PATH station. Twenty story residential tower and a total of 2,000 parking spots in 3 garages.

https://jerseydigs.com/proposed-20-s...-path-station/


Rendering via JerseyDigs.com via GRO Architects.

Quote:
A new plan for the premises calls for constructing a massive new 2.9 million square foot community in two phases, according to a report by Lower Manhattan-based GRO Architects. Should the Harrison North of Guyon (NOG) project move forward, it would include the town’s tallest building, a 20-story tower with 242,276 square feet of office space, 15,027 square feet of retail space, and a hotel.

Other components of the project call for a plaza near the new PATH entrance, three private eight-story parking garages with 2,200 spaces, garages for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, and a three-part residential development with 518 units and 85,628 square feet of retail space. According to GRO’s report, a 25,000 square foot “big box” store, a bowling alley, two “boutique cinemas,” four restaurants, sports bars, and a 26,000 square foot convention center are also included in the proposal, the latter of which is described as potentially being “a significant improvement to the area as neighboring Newark does not have a modern facility of this type.”
That should be good for at least another 5,000 average weekday trips on the PATH. Hitting 300,000 average weekday riderships easily in a couple years.
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  #134  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2018, 2:47 PM
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  #135  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2018, 3:29 PM
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a new station and harrison tod are great ideas, i hope they happen.

what's up these days with the airport extension plans?
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  #136  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2018, 3:40 PM
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  #137  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2019, 3:29 PM
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The Port Authority is investing $1 billion in PATH improvements due to overcrowding.

Let it be known that everyone that stated that development should wait for infrastructure improvements have it wrong. Development has to push the system to a critical mass, then the funds come flowing to improve it. It's the sad reality of infrastructure planning in America today.


Code:
September 2012 Avg. Weekday Ridership

Christopher Street  4,709
9th Street          5,331
14th Street         9,509
23rd Street         8,747
33rd Street        36,341
WTC                52,339
Newark             32,228
Harrison            7,757
Journal Square     28,477
Grove Street       16,597
Exchange Place     17,091
Pavonia/ Newport   19,467
Hoboken            28,888

Total             267,480


September 2019 Avg. Weekday Ridership

Christopher Street  5,567
9th Street          5,738
14th Street         9,695
23rd Street        10,325
33rd Street        36,206
WTC                66,577
Newark             31,976
Harrison            9,754
Journal Square     29,541
Grove Street       23,338
Exchange Place     18,658
Pavonia/ Newport   20,037
Hoboken            31,106

Total             298,519


Percent Change in Ridership from September 2012 to September 2019

Christopher Street 18.22%
9th Street          7.63%
14th Street         1.96%
23rd Street        18.04%
33rd Street        -0.37%
WTC                27.20%
Newark             -0.78%
Harrison           25.74%
Journal Square      3.74%
Grove Street       40.62%
Exchange Place      9.17%
Pavonia/ Newport    2.93%
Hoboken             7.68%

Total              11.60%
Code:
Highlights in Station avg. daily ridership growth

Top 5

Grove Street       40.62%
WTC                27.20%
Harrison           25.74%
Christopher Street 18.22%
23rd Street        18.04%

Bottom 5

Newark             -0.78%
33rd Street        -0.37%
Pavonia/ Newport    2.93%
Journal Square      3.74%
Hoboken             7.68%
Wow at the growth at Grove and Harrison Stations! This trend should continue as thousands of new housing units are built. I'm surprised at the loss of ridership at Newark. My guess is because people are electing to take New Jersey Transit as an alternative. The drop at 33rd also seems odd, but it supports the NJ Transit theory since the 33rd Street station is in the same vicinity as Penn Station. Journal Square's ridership growth should really start to take off soon, but I'm surprised it hasn't grown more in the past 7 years given all the growth in rental developments in the area. There are literally thousands of units under construction within a 15 minute walk to Journal Square station.

Last edited by C.; Nov 11, 2019 at 3:44 PM.
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  #138  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2019, 4:55 PM
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The PATH needs to be extended all the way to Plainfield, as planned in the 1970's. This will relieve pressure on NJ Transit and provide new living opportunities in a corridor from Wall Street towards Central Jersey.
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  #139  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2019, 1:05 PM
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Suburban ct and westchester have huge advantages over nj due to the quick and painless metro north commute to midtown, vs the painful and always delayed nj transit and path

Anything to improve the commute to the heart of the suburbs will help jersey city and lower manhattan
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