HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Southwest


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #61  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2009, 3:50 PM
HooverDam's Avatar
HooverDam HooverDam is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Country Club Park, Greater Coronado, Midtown, Phoenix, Az
Posts: 4,610
Even though its beige (bleck) some of the accents might save it from being too awful. I certainly think its better than the entirely brutal county buildings. It almost has sort of a light art deco or Egyptian revival style to it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #62  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2009, 6:24 PM
Tranquility Tranquility is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 41
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...tower0607.html

Critics Blast Timing, Cost of Court-Tower Project


43 comments by Yvonne Wingett - Jun. 7, 2009 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic

Maricopa County's criminal-court tower project has spurred investigations and complaints by county law enforcement and politicians.

But work goes on for the downtown Phoenix project, and the Board of Supervisors remains steadfast in its support: "There's not anything more important than building that courthouse," Supervisor Max Wilson said.

With a $340 million price tag, the project is the most expensive in county history.

It is also one of the largest. The dirt-scraped block near First Avenue and Madison Street will be home to a 16-story tower that will house 22 courtrooms by 2012 with another 10 shelled for future use.

Some people have said a new court tower isn't needed, or that now was not the time to build it, amid the poor economy.

Critics Sheriff Joe Arpaio and County Attorney Andrew Thomas opened an investigation, and County Treasurer Charles Hoskins also asked lawmakers to inquire.

Over the past several months, workers demolished the Madison Street garage and administrators put bids out for labor and materials. The board last week authorized a $63 million contract with construction company Gilbane-Ryan.

"It's fair public comment to be against the project, whatever your reasons are," County Manager David Smith said. "But we're improving efficiencies. We expect it to be a 50-year, maybe a 100-year building. There isn't marble," he said, disputing claims that it's a Taj Mahal-style building with gold fixtures and marble floors.

"It's going to be like B-level quality."

Criminal justice is a primary role of county government: About 62 percent of the county's $1.3 billion general budget is devoted to public safety, and costs continue to rise.

The supervisors started planning the tower 12 years ago to help handle future growth in the criminal-justice system and for years have saved cash for the project.

A decade later, in 2007, the board authorized $340 million to design and build the project.

Supervisors and court and county administrators believe the court space will speed up trials and save money on housing inmates.

The Superior Court handles about 40,000 felony cases a year, and the number has grown by more than 6 percent yearly, according to Superior Court figures. By 2016, officials say the number will reach 55,000.

The courts have outgrown current facilities, officials said, and demand is at an all-time-high. Space is so tight that court administrators juggle courtrooms with vacationing and sick judges.

"The buildings you see here (current court facilities), were all built in the '60s and '70s," said court administrator Marcus Reinkensmeyer. Since then, the county's population has tripled.

"We think the new building is going to allow us to move around all of these thousands of inmates more efficiently, get them to court, allow them to have interviews with their attorneys in a much safer way," Reinkensmeyer said.

County officials spent more than two years working with an architect to design the tower.

The tower will include a large jury-assembly room for the entire criminal-court complex, state-of-the-art technology and separate waiting rooms for victims and witnesses.

So far, the county has spent about $40 million on the project, including construction, insurance, project management and consulting, said James Foley, deputy director with Facilities Management.

The poor economy has made the project more affordable. With the project 18 percent complete, costs have come in almost $4 million under budget, he said. Items bid to date were estimated to cost $40 million while the actual bids came in at $36 million.

"We're seeing very good pricing, but there's still a long way to go," he said.

The controversy

While the economy has been good for prices, it's been bad for public support.

"What kind of morons do we have sitting on the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors?" asked Carol Dello Russo of Cave Creek in a Republic letter to the editor. "Now is not the time to be looking 30 to 50 years into the future. What is needed now is an immediate fix to a serious problem."

Earlier this year, as budget negotiations between county officials and Arpaio and Thomas deteriorated, the pair suggested that officials should kill or postpone the project and use the money to balance the county's $138.2 million shortfall.

On March 27, Arpaio and Thomas said they were conducting an investigation into "funding and contracts" for the tower.

A Superior Court judge disqualified Thomas from an ongoing grand-jury criminal investigation, saying he could not be involved in the case since his office provided legal advice on it.

Thomas later sent the case to Yavapai County Attorney Sheila Polk.

Dennis McGrane, chief deputy county attorney for Yavapai County, said he was working with MCSO on the case but would not comment on what progress the investigation had made.

County Treasurer Hoskins, meanwhile, has asked Republican lawmakers to look into the tower project and told The Republic it should be halted because officials have "refused to give me detailed information about their expenditures" on the project.

Hoskins publically questioned why the county is paying cash for the project at a time when financing is relatively cheap. The cash, he suggested, could be better used to help cover county shortfalls.

"I have no reason to suspect impropriety," he said at a news conference last month. "It's nice to have cash in times like these."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #63  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2009, 7:17 AM
combusean's Avatar
combusean combusean is offline
Skyriser
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Newark, California
Posts: 7,195
I like it how every time some moron proposes closes an operating gap with capital funds, they get laughed out the door.

Except here.

The quiet "solution" to this is instead bond out for the tower and use the funds that have already been allocated for this thing to plug holes where the money was never supposed to be used.

The County treasurer should be tarred and feathered. He's bitter that his and other departments are getting shorted and can't use money that was never theirs to begin with.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #64  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2009, 9:48 PM
combusean's Avatar
combusean combusean is offline
Skyriser
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Newark, California
Posts: 7,195
The sidebar that wasn't included in the paste of the last article says that financing it will cost $200 million in interest. I think tarring and feathering is too nice for the county treasurer after that revelation.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #65  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2009, 1:13 PM
Jsmscaleros's Avatar
Jsmscaleros Jsmscaleros is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 274
I like how David Smith is trying to make people feel better about a 340 million project by saying it's "B level quality" and a "50-year, maybe a 100-year building".
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #66  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2009, 3:23 PM
Buckeye Native 001 Buckeye Native 001 is offline
E pluribus unum
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Arizona
Posts: 31,280
Regardless its "quality" in David Smith's eyes, its still desperately needed.

And if I'm reading this right, he's complaining about its b-level quality and the amount of money the court tower will cost, but he's also complaining about the lack of marble?

Quote:
"It's fair public comment to be against the project, whatever your reasons are," County Manager David Smith said. "But we're improving efficiencies. We expect it to be a 50-year, maybe a 100-year building. There isn't marble," he said, disputing claims that it's a Taj Mahal-style building with gold fixtures and marble floors.

"It's going to be like B-level quality."
Does that quote make sense to anyone else?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #67  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2009, 3:58 PM
admdavid's Avatar
admdavid admdavid is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Mesa
Posts: 95
I think he's trying to say that the cost doesn't include such extravagances as marble and gold-plated bathroom fixtures. He's trying to deflect some criticism but it's doing it very well.

He should've said something along the lines of, "We're building this tower to last, with quality materials and craftsmanship, but we aren't going all Donald Trump with the marble and gold fixtures."

Just MHO.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #68  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2009, 5:31 AM
Tempe_Duck Tempe_Duck is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 342
Anybody watch the story on ABC15 about the possible fraud on this project? What do you all think?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #69  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2009, 5:40 AM
HX_Guy HX_Guy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,095
I think that it better now fuck up and delay/cancel the project.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #70  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2009, 7:21 AM
PhxPavilion's Avatar
PhxPavilion PhxPavilion is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 702
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempe_Duck View Post
Anybody watch the story on ABC15 about the possible fraud on this project? What do you all think?
Wouldn't surprise me. Working for the city I see wasteful spending on a regular basis.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #71  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2009, 7:32 AM
combusean's Avatar
combusean combusean is offline
Skyriser
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Newark, California
Posts: 7,195
Why is ABC15 is giving any airtime at all to Thomas and Arpaio? They are the stupidest, most vile, vindictive, incompetent windbags to have ever held office in Arizona.

Their first report on the project reeks of manufactured controversy. Notice how it's all done under "The Investigators" mantra so they can eschew all semblances of neutrality as they "report" the goings on about this. But they can't even get sooo many facts about this thing right it's obscene.

Last edited by combusean; Jun 10, 2009 at 7:57 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #72  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2009, 8:14 AM
Tempe_Duck Tempe_Duck is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by combusean View Post
Why is ABC15 is giving any airtime at all to Thomas and Arpaio? They are the stupidest, most vile, vindictive, incompetent windbags to have ever held office in Arizona.

Their first report on the project reeks of manufactured controversy. Notice how it's all done under "The Investigators" mantra so they can eschew all semblances of neutrality as they "report" the goings on about this. But they can't even get sooo many facts about this thing right it's obscene.

So are you saying the story is much ado about nothing?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #73  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2009, 4:13 PM
combusean's Avatar
combusean combusean is offline
Skyriser
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Newark, California
Posts: 7,195
from the story on ABC15, I found this comment rather telling. If you want to read the original story, go search for it because I'm not even going to support their website with a link back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by some commenter on ABC15
... And to the idiot who claimed that contracts are going out of state, the facts are that NOT A SINGLE CONTRACT on the court building is going to an out of state firm. What kind of moron are you?? The fact is that the project is being built without debt, with no tax increase at all, and will put more than a thousand people to work for up to 3 years. These are private sector jobs, not government jobs that most on this post seem to be so concerned with. Channel 15 has done a horrible job in that they have the cost of the building wrong, the construction materials wrong, the building design and layout wrong and the motives behind the Board of Supervisors wrong. Josh is clearly being fed information from the two biggest sour grapes of all, Thomas and Arpiao. How else to explain the recent public love affair between Thomas, who normally shows about as much affection as a mushroom growing in the woods, and Channel 15?? Channel 15, the County Attorney and the MCSO are behind the scenes supporting the Courthouse yet in public are bashing it. They attend the meetings and suggest design changes, and then go out and talk trash about it. Talk about hypocrisy.
Who isn't Thomas or Arpaio investigating?

Last edited by combusean; Jun 10, 2009 at 8:06 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #74  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2009, 7:50 PM
Tfom Tfom is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 237
I'm sure they are investigating Sean now. Did you forget that freedom of speech is abolished when it comes to those two morons?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #75  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2009, 11:55 PM
PhxPavilion's Avatar
PhxPavilion PhxPavilion is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 702
I can't believe people still vote for Arpaio.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #76  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2009, 6:42 PM
NorthScottsdale NorthScottsdale is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 301
/\ All the old people in Sun City and everyone in Mesa loves him.. as I'm sure most in far out Suburbia do..
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #77  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2009, 7:46 PM
Tfom Tfom is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 237
I heard someone praising him to one of my friends one time and I wanted to vomit. Anyhow... he has to die soon. You can't be that angry, overweight, and old and live forever.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #78  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2009, 8:35 PM
TAZ4ate0's Avatar
TAZ4ate0 TAZ4ate0 is offline
High Voltage
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tempe, Arizona (Phoenix)
Posts: 758
LOL so true.

Every time I hear the names Arpaio and Thomas invoked in the same sentence or conversation, I cringe

Last edited by TAZ4ate0; Jun 11, 2009 at 9:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #79  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2009, 9:46 PM
Evil Empire's Avatar
Evil Empire Evil Empire is offline
Jotun
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: PHX/SF/SRB/ARG
Posts: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tfom View Post
I heard someone praising him to one of my friends one time and I wanted to vomit. Anyhow... he has to die soon. You can't be that angry, overweight, and old and live forever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAZ4ate0 View Post
LOL so true.

Every time I hear the names Arpaio and Thomas invoked in the same sentence or conversation, I cringe
How can you not love anyone who shacks up with white supremacist and neo-nazi groups?

Arpaio with the leader of the Phoenix chapter of the "National Socialist Movement"

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #80  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2009, 11:00 PM
CANUC CANUC is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 515
Yeah, last night Phil Gordon jumped on the shooting at the Holocaust museum as a chance to throw Arpaio under the bus by noting the exact video on YouTube. Arpio’s response was almost comical, he said and I quote “I saw an American flag so I pulled over”, now that’s priceless since when does the confederate flag look like the American flag? LOL. The many has gone completely senile.
__________________
“Yeah, had it in my storage place from when I lived in Phoenix, well I lived in Mesa but when you say Mesa people don’t know what Mesa is…eh, it, it, it’s Phoenix…yeah I lived in Phoenix.”
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Southwest
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 7:53 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.