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  #23041  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2014, 2:27 AM
Sonny☼LA Sonny☼LA is offline
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Saugus Prison Farm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood Graham View Post
The City of Los Angeles ran a larger jail system than L.A. County for many years. This included prisoners kept in cells and tanks at Lincoln Heights Jail, trustees who worked on the prison farm in Saugus and trustees kept at LHJ. The farm was a God Send for drunks who were sentenced to 30, 60 or 90 days to dry out. Many did dry out and once again were able to live a normal life. Others were of course bound to come back. The labor was not forced as in terms of doing something against their will but it gave them a chance to shorten their sentence or learn a trade or occupy their time instead of doing nothing. Counseling was also available in an effort to thwart the effects of drunkenness.
Eventually the city jail system was abandoned and left to the county, only detention prior to arraignment or release from custody were now city jail purposes. The city continued arresting drunks but they served no time and had no chance to dry out. They were instead released upon sobering up and return to the bars and liquor stores to start the process over again. Lot of drunks died because of the loss of this system.
Interesting, HG, thanks.

Also interesting that one of the first search results for the Saugus prison farm brings up the story of Bob Mizer, brave founder of the Athletic Model Guild, sent to the farm for six months for disseminating obscene material in 1947. More surprising than the conviction is that he only needed to wait six years for the US Supreme Court to overturn the decision.
The Advocate

Is it related to the Pitchess Honor Rancho?
LA County Sheriff

LA Times article on a prison farm break in 1986.
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  #23042  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2014, 3:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredH View Post

Martha Vickers (third wife of Mickey Rooney)

The Big Sleep, Warner Bros. (1946)

Mickey sure got the babes.
He sure did FredH, and with noirish results.


His fifth wife was Barbara Ann Thomason (stage name Carolyn Mitchell)
Here she is with a list of her various 'titles'.


http://marriage.about.com/od/Multipl...y-Rooney_6.htm


This pose is similar to the one above. (I'm including it because of the location near Bullocks Wilshire)
Where was this taken? it resembles a motel--

iltil


'Carolyn Mitchell' cheescake



Here are the newlyweds.





They eventually had four children together.

corbis.image



Here comes the noirish part:

In 1966 Barbara Ann Thomason Rooney (age 29) was murdered by her 25 year old lover, Milos Milosevic, in Rooney's home with Mickey's gun.


www.dailymail.com




Removing wife number five from 13030 Evanston Street Los Angeles.

corbis


13030 Evanston Street
latimesblog.latimes

above: Attorney Harold Abeles escorts three of Barbara and Mickey's children from the murder house. (Kimmy Sue was at her grandparent's house in Inglewood)

Milos Milosevic timeline

murderpedia.com


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Last edited by ethereal_reality; Aug 9, 2014 at 8:40 PM.
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  #23043  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2014, 3:52 AM
Sonny☼LA Sonny☼LA is offline
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Future Muscle Beach

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Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post
Does anyone recognize the buildings behind these three sun-bathers?


ebay
I thought this was cool as I just saw the Huell Howser episode on Muscle Beach today. This must be one of the few photos without people flipping and flexing. Could be before the workout equipment was installed in the 30's? Sad that many of the buildings in the immediate background of all those Muscle Beach photos are gone. The Vista Tea Room building stood about where Hot Dog On A Stick is now, just north of the brown building in the picture below. That building is still there (now white), along with the Purser Apartments (now beige), just behind the chess board between Seaside Terrace and Arcadia Terrace.

ER, your 2012 posting of the huge 1947 Muscle Beach photo is the Santa Monica location.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post
Here's an enormous photo of Muscle Beach/Venice Beach in 1947.




http://macrochef.files.wordpress.com...nd-r1-e054.jpg

above: There's a good trick going on in front of the middle tan awning (pan right----> )


In the Howser episode, he actually interviewed several old timers including Pudgy Stockton, mentioned by MichaelRyerson in this post.

I thought it funny that they mentioned the differences between the gymnasts and the bodybuilders...they didn't mix too much, apparently. The gymnasts said they were there all day from 8am while the bodybuilders came for an hour and got in their way the rest of the day, distracting the womenfolk. Today, the rings and swings remain at the original site of Muscle Beach while the bodybuilders have moved south to the Venice boardwalk, near Windward Ave, separated after all those years.

Last edited by Sonny☼LA; Aug 10, 2014 at 7:54 PM. Reason: Correction to location of Vista Tea Room.
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  #23044  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2014, 5:31 AM
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[QUOTE=ethereal_reality He sure did [B]FredH[/B], and with noirish results.

Here comes the noirish part:

In 1966 Barbara Ann Thomason Rooney (age 29) was murdered by her 25 year old lover, Milos Milosevic, in Rooney's home with Mickey's gun.


www.dailymail.com

Wow! ER - I had no idea. Every time I read about this guy, something new pops up. He lived til 93, but somehow managed to cram in about 193 years of living (and misery).

I still can't figure out how he got all those women.

Last edited by FredH; Aug 9, 2014 at 5:44 AM.
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  #23045  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2014, 5:42 AM
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[QUOTE=HossC; Following [URL="http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=6683840&postcount=23024"]MichaelRyerson's very detailed and informative post about the 4th Street cut[/URL], here are a couple of extra images.

This one is simply titled "4th Street cut." The camera was somewhere near to Grand Avenue, looking roughly west along 4th Street towards the Harbor Freeway. Just behind the "Smith's" sign on the white wall is the southern end of Bunker Hill Avenue, and the large building on the left is the Barbara Worth on Hope Street. The picture is dated 10/15/54.


Huntinton Digital Library

HossC - I love this photo and I'm not sure why. I guess it gives you the feeling of just being dropped off at a random street corner in 1954 and given the chance to take a look around.
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  #23046  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2014, 1:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HossC View Post
Following MichaelRyerson's very detailed and informative post about the 4th Street cut, here are a couple of extra images.

This one is simply titled "4th Street cut." The camera was somewhere near to Grand Avenue, looking roughly west along 4th Street towards the Harbor Freeway. Just behind the "Smith's" sign on the white wall is the southern end of Bunker Hill Avenue, and the large building on the left is the Barbara Worth on Hope Street. The picture is dated 10/15/54.


Huntinton Digital Library

Nice post, Hoss. As usual. This image, in particular, is amazing. The camera appears to be situated on the property on the NW corner of Grand and 4th Street. The Brunson/4th&Grand service garage would have been to the immediate right of the camera. As you've noted, we're looking across the southern end of Bunker Hill Avenue and immediately beyond that the shattered foundations of the now-missing Crestholme, the Kiernan and the Gibson over on the NE corner of Hope Street. That distinctive dark retaining wall is all that's left of the Hildreth (Hopecrest, indeed). Over here on the left, between the Barbara Worth and the camera, the upper floors of the LaBelle and the Bronx have been removed and out-of-frame to left the status of the Gordon and the Zelda is unknown although here's a shot of the Zelda in August so it seems likely she would be gone by October. The camera in your shot would be somewhere west of the flatbed Ford, probably beyond the pile of rubble.


The Man comes for the Zelda, 1954

August, 1954. The Zelda reduced to little more than a shell awaits the final indignity. Down to the left the Grenada appears largely intact, as does the Sherwood. To the right, the Gordon is hollow and next door the Bronx is being reduced to rubble. So it goes. (Great two-tone Buick at speed, center/bottom), Cars parked at lower right edge are waiting for service at the 4th & Grand garage.

USC digital archive/Los Angeles Examiner Collection, 1920-1961

Last edited by MichaelRyerson; Aug 9, 2014 at 1:34 PM.
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  #23047  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2014, 6:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post

Olive near 4th Street in 1965.


LAPL
While we're still in the area of 4th Street, I've been curious about the road on the left of the Olive Inn since I first saw this picture. That must be the rear of the Judd Apartments in the background.

My search for the mystery road led me to the 1972 Historic Aerials image below. It looks like the "S" shaped road provided access between S Olive and S Grand while the 4th Street Cut was being dug. I decided to include a larger area because of the details it shows. Pretty much all of the buildings mentioned in the last few posts about the 4th Street Cut have gone, as has Bunker Hill Avenue and the section of Grand Avenue between W 1st and W 4th. S Hope has a temporary jog around the under-construction Security Pacific Plaza (Bank of America Plaza).


Historic Aerials


Here are a few previous posts with images relating to this area:

gsjansen: 4th & Grand Service Garage looking across 4th Street in 1955 and 1956.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=4072

FredH: Casa Alta on Olive Street being demolished in 1966. The Olive Inn and Mutual Garage are in the background.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=18863

FredH: Close-up of the Olive Inn with the 4th & Grand Service Garage in the background.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=18874

Flyingwedge: Some great, large, color aerial views of Bunker Hill, circa early 1969.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=19714
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  #23048  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2014, 7:55 PM
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David H. Geedy

My 2nd great-granduncle David H. Geedy moved to Los Angeles in 1905. His address was given as 1670 West 23 Street, Los Angeles from an article in the Los Angeles Herald dated November 19, 1905. Using the Google mobile there are houses that could date from that era on the street. I could not find 1670, it looks as if the numbering has changed somewhat. This might be an interesting area to look for some Noirish tales.
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  #23049  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2014, 8:37 PM
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1960

usc



This unique structure still stands on Ferguson Drive in Commerce. (all thirty vaults are still intact...I counted them)


Google_Earth



And it's practically next door to the old Union Pacific East Los Angeles Depot.


La Angelina on flickr.


We first covered the East Los Angeles Depot back on page 466.

Here is a nice vintage photograph when it was still in use.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=9306


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Last edited by ethereal_reality; Aug 9, 2014 at 8:48 PM.
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  #23050  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2014, 9:20 PM
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the bented way in better days

Hi HossC. Here is the entrance way dropping on Olive. It is taken from the opposite point of view. It was posted by Beaudry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaudry View Post
The Wales not long before its demolition --
calstatelibrary
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  #23051  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2014, 9:55 PM
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"Money, money, money...its a rich man's world".

[QUOTE=FredH;6685488]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethereal_reality He sure did [B
FredH[/B], and with noirish results.

Here comes the noirish part:

In 1966 Barbara Ann Thomason Rooney (age 29) was murdered by her 25 year old lover, Milos Milosevic, in Rooney's home with Mickey's gun.


www.dailymail.com

Wow! ER - I had no idea. Every time I read about this guy, something new pops up. He lived til 93, but somehow managed to cram in about 193 years of living (and misery).

I still can't figure out how he got all those women.
Can't figure out how little 5'3" Mickey got all those women.
I have a possible answer......MONEY.
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  #23052  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2014, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otis Criblecoblis View Post
That's what's known as a "counter check". As with all such bank forms, at least back in the day, it was printed up with the information for each individual branch. These checks were used whenever a customer's own personalized checks were not available, e.g. for a new account or when a customer ran out. They were also placed in the lobby so a customer could cash a check inside the branch without using one of his personalized checks.
I never used a bank counter check, but I'm old enough to have used a grocery store counter check; this would have been some time around 1991-2. It's strange to think how even as late as the early 1990s they weren't accepting bank debit or ATM cards in a chain grocery store.
Quote:
Later, when MICR encoding (the line of printed numbers and symbols along the bottom) came into use, banks took these checks out of the lobby and the individual branch info off the checks.
I know with some banks, at least, the first part of the account number tells the branch number, so you could say the info is still there, as part of the OCR sequence at the bottom of the check.
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A Couple Of Before-And-Afters That Won't Make You Sad
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  #23053  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2014, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlvaroLegido View Post

Hi HossC. Here is the entrance way dropping on Olive. It is taken from the opposite point of view. It was posted by Beaudry.
Thanks, AlvaroLegido. I must've seen Beaudry's post, but never connected it with the other picture.


-------------


Quote:
Originally Posted by rcarlton View Post

My 2nd great-granduncle David H. Geedy moved to Los Angeles in 1905. His address was given as 1670 West 23 Street, Los Angeles from an article in the Los Angeles Herald dated November 19, 1905. Using the Google mobile there are houses that could date from that era on the street. I could not find 1670, it looks as if the numbering has changed somewhat. This might be an interesting area to look for some Noirish tales.
I found David H. Geedy listed at 1670 W 23rd Street in the City Directories between 1909 and 1921 (LAPL doesn't have any directories for that area between 1901 and 1909). Someone called Claude H McFadden was living there by 1923. The 1921 CD's 'Street and Avenue Guide' says that the 1600 block started at Raymond Avenue, which is the same as today, but like you, I couldn't find #1670 either. The houses either side of that number today are 1666 (built in 1914) and 1676 (built in 1904). The last mention I found for 1670 W 23rd Street in the City Directories is in the 1973 edition. The 1987 edition seems to have mainly different house numbers, so was the street renumbered between 1973 and 1987?
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  #23054  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2014, 12:09 AM
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[QUOTE=MartinTurnbull;6684420]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourmaline View Post
nor have I heard of Graubstein’s Peruvian Theater (which, in itself, sounds odd, doesn't it...?)
Sounds like a somewhat loose mockery of Graumann's Chinese Theater to me.Initially I wasn't sure the menu was a joke until I saw "imitation peanut butter" on the child sized club sandwich, and "lettuce leaf on Saltine-like crackers" for dieters. Peanut butter is already one of the cheapest foods substances in the universe, and there's no way Disney, master of trademark themselves even back then, would invite the ire/lawyers of Nabisco by describing a non-Nabisco cracker as "Saltine-like".
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  #23055  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2014, 1:40 AM
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We've seen numerous photographs of the aftermath of the 1910 Los Angeles Times building bombing.
Here are two from ebay (maybe we've seen them on NLA.....maybe not)


I'm posting them because I have a question that has been bothering me for some time.
What is the white thingy with the rectangular sign on top? (in this view someone has draped a jacket on it)


ebay



Here's another view. (this time with a wagon beside it)


ebay

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Last edited by ethereal_reality; Aug 10, 2014 at 2:04 AM.
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  #23056  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2014, 2:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson View Post
With a nod to NLA stalwart HossC and our recent conversation about the 4th Street cut...


Looking west from the Goodyear blimp 'Paegel' at Grand Avenue and 3rd Street, 1954

Looking west from the Goodyear blimp 'Paegel' from about Grand Avenue and 3rd Street in late 1954. Really a great view showing
the scourge of the 4th Street cut being applied across the southern slope of Bunker Hill. Many important structures are gone by now
(although many remain and are captured in this great image).

First the obvious: on the left, on this side of the Harbor Freeway, we have a wing of the Statler, (unfortunately no view of the
Richfield), the Rex Arms and the Jonathan Club. Still moving to the right, we find the Architects Building on the SE corner of
5th Street and Figueroa and the Monarch Hotel catty-corner on the NW corner.

Following 5th Street back to the left edge we find the back of the Sunkist and just a bitty corner of the Central Library,
then behind the Sunkist (to the right) we find the Touraine is still in business, the little Sons of the Revolution Library,
the dark and rather nondescript Santa Barbara, the Wentworth (Rubiyat), a parking lot and then the bright Barbara Worth (the Briggs).

And now a great expanse of open ground wherein we are missing the single-family residence which used to sit in the shadow
of the Barbara Worth on the SW corner of 4th and Hope Streets and the Castle Tower Apartments which had clung to the
hillside above Flower Street behind the Barbara Worth (and the now missing single family residence) are gone as well. Then the
roadbed for the 4th Street stub which overlooked Flower Street and on the north side of 4th street the now missing Hildreth Mansion
and the carriage house studio of Margrethe Mather (who had died two years earlier on Christmas Day, 1952) on the NW corner of 4th
and Hope Streets.

We have a view of the roof of the oddly contemporary Stuart K. Oliver house which will succeed in being the absolute last private
residence to go under on this side of Bunker Hill.

The 4th Street roadbed has not yet been lowered in this image but by January of 1955 they will begin dropping the grade in this
area by thirty feet or more.

Following the 4th Street right-of-way to the east (left toward the bottom of the image) across Hope Street, we find every
street-side structure missing. Across Hope Street from the Barbara Worth (south side of 4th) we have the LaBelle,
the Bronx and the Gordon all gone and at Grand Avenue all that's left of the Zelda is a surprisingly small basement cavity
(next door is a parking lot and then the Grenada).

Across Grand Avenue we can see that the Leonard Rose Mansion is finally gone, it being little more than a pilfered shell
for a decade or more.

On the north side of 4th Street, across Hope Street from the Stuart K. Oliver house we find the Gibson, the Kiernan and
the Crestholme all asunder.

The missing Crestholme brings us to Bunker Hill Avenue (which runs north from 4th Street), that storied lane of early
prominence and at what appears to be its summit we find 'The Castle', whiter than her neighbors, and awaiting a distant and fiery
end (with the Salt Box), in ignoble circumstances, having been designated for preservation, suffering the indignity of being
uprooted from this long-time perch, to be stored briefly behind chain-link only to be torched by Christine Sterling or Norris
Poulson or the Ghost of Otis Chandler or somebody.

But that's in the future, for now, with devastation all around, we go a bit further to the north (right) on Bunker Hill Avenue
and find the enormous Alta Vista (and we're looking at her short side!) standing watch over the west portal of the
3rd Street tunnel (and I'd be remiss if I didn't make the nearly de ri-guer observation that the Alta Vista was, of course,
at one time, the residence of diminutive, Los Angeles novelist John Fante. And yes, he used it in Ask the Dust, renamed
in the novel as the Alta Loma).

USC digital archive/Los Angeles Examiner Collection, 1920-1961


Bunker Hill, going away piece by piece, 1954

Archived caption material perpetuates long-standing error concerning Hildreth house. First the caption: "Time is catching up with Bunker
Hill--it's going away piece by piece. This is the west end of Fourth Street cut, newest inroad into the Hill. Arrow points to Stuart K. Oliver
home, site of Dr. Ed(win) Hildreth's old "House of Sorrows." Photograph dated December 7, 1954." The problem with the caption is Stuart
Oliver's house was not built on the Hildreth property (357 S. Hope Street), it was built next door (at 351-53 S. Hope Street), one property
to the north of the Hildreth house. The Hildreth house would have stood just about where this steam-shovel's cab is now sitting albeit
perhaps fifteen or twenty feet straight up, as much of the Hildreth lot has been excavated. Margrethe Mather's beloved studio, in the
Hildreth carriage house, would have been about sixty or eighty feet to the left of the steam shovel. A slight variation on this pernicious
rumor is that the Oliver house was built next door on the site of the Hildreth carriage house! But, of course, we all know the Hildreth
carriage house was on 4th Street (715 W. 4th Street), due west of the house NOT on Hope Street north of the house. The Hildreth
carriage house was leased to Margrethe Mather in about 1916-17 and that lease remained in effect until her death in 1952 (property was
demolished in 1954). In those later years, Mather's health failing, it served primarily to store her belongings. She lived over in Glendale
with George Lipton.

LAPL


4th Street cut from Bunker Hill, January 16, 1955

Steam shovel is parked approximately on the corner of 4th and Hope Streets. Looking west across the Flower/Figueroa draw,
a corner of the Stuart K. Oliver house can be seen at the right edge behind the shovel. The Hildreth Mansion (or more properly in 1955,
Hopecrest) is gone, it's last resting place the pile of rubble in the shadow. Fitting. Adieu Margrethe.

Huntington Digital Library,Palmer Conner Collection of Color Slides of Los Angeles, 1950 - 1970


4th Street cut at Grand Avenue, 1955

Looking generally south on Grand Avenue across the excavation of 4th Street. North side of the Sherwood Apartments and beyond it the
Edison Building at 5th and Grand and the white Engstrum Apartments on upper 5th Street peeking over the shoulder of the Sherwood. Pile
of rubble in the right foreground is all that's left of the Grenada and the Zelda (which would be nearer the camera) has been carted away.
They're breakin' up that old gang of mine.

Huntington Digital Library, Palmer Conner Collection of Color Slides of Los Angeles, 1950 - 1970


Looking south from 4th and Grand Avenue, 1960

Looking south across the 4th Street cut at the exposed back of the Edison Building, Grand Avenue running south on the left. The 4th
Street roadbed is perhaps fifty feet below the original grade, so that we would be looking pretty much directly into the side of the Zelda
whose entrance would be twenty or thirty feet above those parked cars. The photographer has his back to the 4th Street garage which is
situated on the site of the Brunson, all those years ago.

USC digital archive/Automobile Club of Southern California collection, 1892-1963


Looking north on Grand Avenue from the south side of the 4th Street cut, 1956

Looking across the 4th Street cut from the approximate location of the Zelda. 4th Street Garage on the site of the Brunson Mansion,
Biltmore Apartments dark building directly above the Ford station wagon, the bright white Judd Apartments on the right and far up the
street, the white Lovejoy Apartments at Grand Avenue and 3rd Street.

LAPL


Extension of 4th Street through Bunker Hill, 1956

Looking west over 4th Street where half a mile extension will carry it from Hill Street under Grand Avenue (middle distance) and Hope
Street (Hildreth house is gone, only shrubs appear to remain) and over Figueroa and Flower (which cannot be seen) to the Harbor
Freeway, part of which can be seen in the background. Camera appears to be situated on the south east corner of Olive and 4th Streets
probably on the upper floors or roof of the Subway Building. Lovely curved staircase at center/bottom is from the now demolished Fremont
Hotel. The $1,256,085 project is scheduled to be finished Jan. 1st, 1956. 135,400 cubic yards of dirt are in the process of being moved
and work can be seen from the Harbor Freeway.
These images are haunting. You rock, Michael
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  #23057  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2014, 2:17 AM
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-photographer's stamp. Hemenway at the Auditorium Building






A true beauty.


ebay

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Last edited by ethereal_reality; Aug 10, 2014 at 2:33 AM.
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  #23058  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2014, 2:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post

We've seen numerous photographs of the aftermath of the 1910 Los Angeles Times building bombing.
Here are two from ebay (maybe we've seen them on NLA.....maybe not)

I'm posting them because I have a question that has been bothering me for some time.
What is the white thingy with the rectangular sign on top? (in this view someone has draped a jacket on it)


ebay
Here's another view of the scene that I found on USC.


USC Digital Library

Your mystery object appears to be an advertising board on a post with a sign for The Times at the top.


Detail of picture above.
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  #23059  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2014, 2:29 AM
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-Very interesting HossC. Thanks for the assist.
It appears the entire sign was lit from within.

It reminds me of the shooting gallery sign we've seen in previous posts.


http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=16634


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Last edited by ethereal_reality; Aug 10, 2014 at 3:11 AM.
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  #23060  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2014, 3:19 AM
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Hazel's Wonder Tablets, distributed out of a drug store on Whittier Boulevard.


ebay

-snake oil in pill form?

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