NEW YORK | 80 South Street | 1,436 FT | 113 FLOORS - Page 25

NYguy · #**481** Posted **Feb 5, 2018, 2:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

This obviously will rise, but who will build it?

https://therealdeal.com/2018/02/03/e...n-re-holdings/

Didn't see anything about this site being for sale.

But if it ever is put up for sale, it won't be a long one. Potentially someone who would build sooner rather than later.

JMKeynes · #**482** Posted **Feb 5, 2018, 3:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy

Didn't see anything about this site being for sale.

But if it ever is put up for sale, it won't be a long one. Potentially someone who would build sooner rather than later.

I agree

N830MH · #**483** Posted **Feb 12, 2018, 7:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy

Didn't see anything about this site being for sale.

But if it ever is put up for sale, it won't be a long one. Potentially someone who would build sooner rather than later.

Oh, absolutely! They will build it in a distant future. We shall see what happen.

chris08876 · #**484** Posted **Feb 12, 2018, 7:21 PM**

I have a feeling this will rise in the next cycle or at least be completed by 2022.

JMKeynes · #**485** Posted **Feb 13, 2018, 1:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy

http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/Jo...ssdocnumber=01

http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/Jo...ssdocnumber=01

The renderings for 80 Flatbush look like this model for 80 South St

Prezrezc · #**486** Posted **Feb 13, 2018, 3:52 PM**

Meh....

That model was from so long ago and so much has changed that I'm not sure whether it can be reliably cited anymore.

JMKeynes · #**487** Posted **Feb 13, 2018, 5:10 PM**

I agree.

NYguy · #**488** Posted **Apr 26, 2018, 12:52 AM**

I wonder if some of these extra rights could end up here...

https://therealdeal.com/2018/04/25/h...treet-seaport/

Howard Hughes eyes 600K sf of air rights at South Street Seaport
Developer’s plans for the New Market Building are unclear

By Kathryn Brenzel
April 25, 2018

Quote:

The Howard Hughes Corporation is eyeing more than 600,000 square feet of air rights that could become available in the South Street Seaport. The question is: What will the company do with them?

In its latest annual review, the Dallas-based firm notes that some 212,000 square feet of air rights could be freed up from the New Market building, a now-vacant structure already pegged for demolition. Those rights could be combined with another 415,000 square feet of air rights from Pier 17 and the Tin Building, two of HHC’s redevelopment projects that are already well underway. HHC, according to the review, is working with the city to figure out what to do with the unused development rights.

Quote:

Meanwhile, there’s another mystery nearby. China Oceanwide Holdings is expected to build a tower as tall as 1,436 feet at 80 South Street — a property the company purchased, along with a neighboring site at 163 Front Street, from HHC for $390 million. The City Council approved the tranfer of 426,940 square feet of air rights to the site in February 2016, allowing for a tower that spans more one million square feet. No plans have been filed with the city’s Department of Buildings as of yet, but Curbed reported in May 2017 that the company filed demolition plans for both existing buildings.

Sky88 · #**489** Posted **Apr 26, 2018, 5:07 PM**

A possible collaboration between Howard Hughes and China Oceanwide Holdings could generate a large 1.650-1.700ft tall mixed-use tower.

NYguy · #**490** Posted **Apr 27, 2018, 3:25 AM**

http://investor.howardhughes.com/int...w_April_25.pdf

80 South St would be in the upper right...

Hudson11 · #**491** Posted **Apr 27, 2018, 4:29 AM**

There doesnt seem to be anywhere else the air rights could be put to use where NIMBYs wouldn't shoot down a new tower.

NYguy · #**492** Posted **Apr 27, 2018, 2:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hudson11

There doesnt seem to be anywhere else the air rights could be put to use where NIMBYs wouldn't shoot down a new tower.

That's what I'm thinking, though they are goibg to be unhappy either way. The only question is if the economics of it. 80 South is supposed to be half residential, and the footprint as is is small. Maybe they could put some higher end condos on top, but the tower would still need to bulk up a little, which means more whining about shadows. I just hope there is a resolution soon. I think 1 Seaport needs to get completed before any work gets started here.

JSsocal · #**493** Posted **Apr 27, 2018, 5:36 PM**

There's that huge stubborn parking lot off water street (bottom left of the pink axon dwg), it doesn't look like HH corporation owns it, but that could be the site of a medium size full block building, possibly with interior retail.

There's also the con-ed substation next to the brooklyn bridge. Not a tower here, but the site is so big it could still be a big commercial development with large floor plates.

Also 80 south street is such a small site its hard to see how more air rights given there could be put to use.

yankeesfan1000 · #**494** Posted **Apr 27, 2018, 9:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSsocal

There's that huge stubborn parking lot off water street (bottom left of the pink axon dwg), it doesn't look like HH corporation owns it, but that could be the site of a medium size full block building, possibly with interior retail...

That was my first thought too, shot in the dark, any idea who owns that lot? It's one of the worst downtown cases of, how on earth is that still a parking lot?

Prezrezc · #**495** Posted **Apr 27, 2018, 10:24 PM**

IMH(umble)O, as NYguy suggested, it might in fact be a better idea to finish up 1SPT first.
From that point, it could perhaps be applied as some kind of reference frame or provide some contextualization to determine how 80S could ultimately flesh out.

It would seem to me that the previous two incarnations of this tower weren't designed with the latter criterion in mind. And I'm fairly certain that 1SPT's final design came out after 80S's newer design was released.

Crawford · #**496** Posted **Apr 28, 2018, 4:38 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000

That was my first thought too, shot in the dark, any idea who owns that lot? It's one of the worst downtown cases of, how on earth is that still a parking lot?

It's due to NIMBYs. The lot is owned by the Millstein family, and they have tried to develop that lot for 30 years, but NIMBYs have always thwarted them.

The issue is that it's in the South Street Seaport Historic District (why, I have no idea) so the city won't allow anything tall. Millstein has attempted to get an exemption repeatedly, but failed.

So we're stuck with a parking lot, in the middle of Lower Manhattan, unless Millstein caves and builds something short and insubstantial. Thanks, NIMBYs!

Or maybe, somehow, DeBlasio can just push through a tower at this site, using the Seaport air rights. But I guarantee every local elected offical and neighborhood busybody will scream and cry, and lawsuits will inevitably be filed.

NYguy · #**497** Posted **Apr 28, 2018, 4:47 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSsocal

There's that huge stubborn parking lot off water street (bottom left of the pink axon dwg), it doesn't look like HH corporation owns it,
but that could be the site of a medium size full block building, possibly with interior retail.

Also 80 south street is such a small site its hard to see how more air rights given there could be put to use.

The 80 South St site is a small site, but as planned, the tower doesn't use the full footprint, there's room for more. That parking lot borders on the site, so extending the footprint would help,
even if just to distribute some of the rights to that corner. The problem is, that parking lot sits within the historic district, while the 80 South St tower sits just outside of it.

BTW, there's always the option of the dreaded cantilever, worked for CPT.

Prezrezc · #**498** Posted **Apr 28, 2018, 10:35 AM**

I wouldn't call a cantilever job, if necessary "dreaded".

If need be, whatever architect gets chosen will most likely find an innovative way to deal with the issue...especially given the importance of what's rising here.

NYguy · #**499** Posted **Apr 30, 2018, 3:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prezrezc

I wouldn't call a cantilever job, if necessary "dreaded".

If need be, whatever architect gets chosen will most likely find an innovative way to deal with the issue...especially given the importance of what's rising here.

We better hope so. This is a prime, waterfront site. No place to hide.

yankeesfan1000 · #**500** Posted **Apr 30, 2018, 3:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford

It's due to NIMBYs. The lot is owned by the Millstein family, and they have tried to develop that lot for 30 years, but NIMBYs have always thwarted them.

The issue is that it's in the South Street Seaport Historic District (why, I have no idea) so the city won't allow anything tall. Millstein has attempted to get an exemption repeatedly, but failed.

So we're stuck with a parking lot, in the middle of Lower Manhattan, unless Millstein caves and builds something short and insubstantial. Thanks, NIMBYs!

Or maybe, somehow, DeBlasio can just push through a tower at this site, using the Seaport air rights. But I guarantee every local elected offical and neighborhood busybody will scream and cry, and lawsuits will inevitably be filed.

Ah, thanks for the info. The fact that NIMBY's are using the LPC to claim that two surface parking lots, this one and the one on John and Front, deserve historic protection is a joke and a stain on the LPC, which looks more and more like a mechanism for NIMBY's to just block development where they don't want it.

That being said, I think this might be my favorite historic district in the city, and would love to see a new building with townhouses on Water St, and a tower section Pearl St.