July 1, 2020 Population Estimates - United States of America

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Handro

But as far as my actual QOL for the next 25 years? I don't see how it would be improved at all... or to go even a step further, I don't see how it wouldn't be impaired.

as someone who has lived extensively on both sides of the procreation coin, i'll simply say that there are many different ways to define and understand "Quality of Life".



is parenthood the most difficult (and at times irritating) challenge i've ever undertaken?

yes, YES, a million time YES!!!




would i say that my "Quality of Life" is lower now compared to my care-free bachelor days?

no, i honestly wouldn't. so much has obviously changed with the MASSIVELY shifted priorities that come with shouldering the monumental responsibility of raising a child, but on balance, my kids have DEFINITELY been a net add to my life.

the love is indescribable, and i'm a hard-core love junkie.




YMMV.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Acajack

One thing I'd add is that having both partners 100% in agreement to not have kids is perfectly fine, but if one partner does and the other one doesn't, I'd suggest parting ways. As extreme as that sounds.

I agree with this 100%. A total deal breaker.

[muertecaza]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

as someone who has lived extensively on both sides of the procreation coin, i'll simply say that there are many different ways to define and understand "Quality of Life".



is parenthood the most difficult (and at times irritating) challenge i've ever undertaken?

yes, YES, a million time YES!!!




would i say that my "Quality of Life" is lower now compared to my care-free bachelor days?

no, i honestly wouldn't. so much has obviously changed with the MASSIVELY shifted priorities that come with shouldering the monumental responsibility of raising a child, but on balance, my kids have DEFINITELY been a net add to my life.

the love is indescribable, and i'm a hard-core love junkie.




YMMV.

That's been my experience as well. Although I do wonder if I'm just fooling myself or "synthesizing happiness" when I'm cleaning shit off a potty trainer's feet.

It's also interesting that within a couple pages people have noted the social stigma that can come both with too many children, and with no children. My social set includes a lot of Mormons, so families with 3+ kids is pretty normal for me. But my impression is that even among the Mormons family sizes are shrinking.

Maybe eventually we'll see an Italy-style campaign to encourage childbirth:

https://www.npr.org/2016/09/01/49228...rate-backfires

From an American perspective at least, hard to imagine a slogan like "Beauty doesn't have an age. Fertility has." going off very well.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by yuriandrade

Sure, the US hasn't elected a president (and almost relected him) whose main platform was to stop immigration. A promise he met, btw.

Facts matter bud.

He was against ILLEGAL immigration, not legal.

We received almost 4 million legal immigrants during the last 4 years, so no, immigration wasn't stopped.

[jtown,man]

On the kid question.

First, this is something we don't talk about much, but it's why many women freak out around 28-30. They know their child rearing possibilities are diminishing every year.

Second, I don't want anyone to have a kid no matter how silly I think their excuses are, and trust me, most excuses are rather lame. It doesn't matter, the kid does, and if the parent has any reservation and have a choice, don't have one.

I am 33 and my girlfriend is 29. She is now in hardcore baby mode. We won't have one until we are officially married but it's coming. She wants a lot of em, but we'll see how the first deal works out lol

If you want a cat or 10 kids, whatever. Do whatever makes you happy.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by muertecaza

That's been my experience as well. Although I do wonder if I'm just fooling myself or "synthesizing happiness" when I'm cleaning shit off a potty trainer's feet.

LOL!

yeah, the daily grind of parenthood can absolutely be challenging.

but on the macro level, the love they can bring is some of the purest, most un-cut shit you can find anywhere.

Originally Posted by jtown,man

Second, I don't want anyone to have a kid no matter how silly I think their excuses are, and trust me, most excuses are rather lame. It doesn't matter, the kid does, and if the parent has any reservation and have a choice, don't have one.

generally agreed.

however, as i've mentioned many times before, there is a subset of people (yours truly included) primarily made-up of men who really don't know how badly they want a kid until they actually have one.

mother nature is tricky bitch like that.

[chris08876]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

On the kid question.

First, this is something we don't talk about much, but it's why many women freak out around 28-30. They know their child rearing possibilities are diminishing every year.

Second, I don't want anyone to have a kid no matter how silly I think their excuses are, and trust me, most excuses are rather lame. It doesn't matter, the kid does, and if the parent has any reservation and have a choice, don't have one.

I am 33 and my girlfriend is 29. She is now in hardcore baby mode. We won't have one until we are officially married but it's coming. She wants a lot of em, but we'll see how the first deal works out lol


If you want a cat or 10 kids, whatever. Do whatever makes you happy.

Jtown man right now:

[Buckeye Native 001]

Originally Posted by JManc

The pressure is real. People asked us when we were having kids right after we were married and I had to remind them that we were not 30. While more and more people are having less kids, there still is somewhat of a stigma with those who don't have them (for whatever reason). For me, I was immature AF throughout my 20's, dated the wrong people throughout my 30's and didn't want kids until it was too late.

I got a fuck ton of pressure from my mother (Catholic) throughout my 20s to find a mate and have kids. I think part of the reason I went dateless and celibate from 2004 to 2011 was me being a wannabe dickhead edgelord.

Then again, she and my father married when she was 21 and was 23 when she had me. Part of the reason I held off for years was seeing my mom, doing the best she did (I was a shithead as a child and am generally worse now), but recognizing in hindsight that she was a relatively young and not wanting to be in a similar situation myself at that age.

[chris08876]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

LOL!

yeah, the daily grind of parenthood can absolutely be challenging.

but on the macro level, the love they can bring is some of the purest, most un-cut shit you can find anywhere.

I was just at a friends house 3 weeks ago who has a 1 year old and 2 year old. His house looks like if Ronald McDonald did acid and repainted his house. Its all child proof. Looks like a Toys R Us surplus warehouse with all of the toys everywhere. I stepped on a toy car, almost tripped. His wife gained many pounds, and he gained weight too. He told me that the 2 year old is now walking, and always opening up drawers and relocating objects. He tells me the 1 year old takes massive craps that make diaper changing a nightmare. He tells me that when he finally goes to bed at 1 am to get up at 5:30 am, at 1 am, the 1 year old always cries.

So un-pure, cut shit... sure... but man... that baby Fentanyl is dangerous stuff! Seems very hard on the mind. Seems like an exhausting never ending trip.

I guess you have to love that. Maybe having a baby makes people's pain and BS tolerance a lot higher.

The costs, the daycare costs, the lack of sleep, the micromanagement.

Love must be a crazy thing for one to be a zombie for a few years.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by chris08876

Jtown man right now:

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Obadno

I find that honestly quite sad, where do you live?

i mean its not really material, i’ve been answering directly to boswash lately in some kind of geographically tiered professional services morlock and eloi shit.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by chris08876

Love must be a crazy thing

Not only is love a crazy thing,

It's ultimately the only thing, really.

Or so I've found at my ripe old age of 45.

[chris08876]

My gf brings up kids but she's insane. Mentally ill she is with those ideas. Kids... pff.... gotta enjoy life. Ain't ready yet!

I have nightmares of ending up getting a minivan. Its kind of like fixing a dog.

With the baby onboard stickers, going 20 below the posted speed limit...!

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Not only is love a crazy thing,

It's ultimately the only thing, really.

Or so I've found at my ripe old age of 45.

i agree. the wheels fall off the hedonic treadmill at some point and thats all that is left.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by chris08876

My gf brings up kids but she's insane. Mentally ill she is with those ideas. Kids... pff.... gotta enjoy life. Ain't ready yet!

I have nightmares of ending up getting a minivan. Its kind of like fixing a dog.

With the baby onboard stickers, going 20 below the posted speed limit...!

Never had baby on board stickers and never drove under the speed limit. But I did have a minivan at one time.

Right now one of my kids has decided to randomly start playing the piano and sing.

Can't beat that.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

i agree. the wheels fall off the hedonic treadmill at some point and thats all that is left.

"looking back on it all now, I wish I could have afforded a home that was bigger, a car that was a little fancier, and just a few more toys".

- said by no one one on their death bed, ever.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

"looking back on it all now, I wish I could have afforded a home that was bigger, a car that was a little fancier, and just a few more toys".

- said by no one one on their death bed, ever.

perhaps 10023 will be the first?

[bobbyv]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

"looking back on it all now, I wish I could have afforded a home that was bigger, a car that was a little fancier, and just a few more toys".

- said by no one one on their death bed, ever.

"looking back on it all now, I wish I could have traveled more and seen the world and enjoy the journey of living for my own happiness"

Said by many parents on their death bed.

Don't kid yourself Dan, one must look at the glass half full when committed to a lifelong choice. It's fortunate you'll never know what you have missed, otherwise depression sets in.

Personally I could give two sh*** about material attainment as you imply, I care more about the experience and thrill of life, I support millennials who go childless, less pollution in this world.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by bobbyv

"looking back on it all now, I wish I could have traveled more and seen the world and enjoy the journey of living for my own happiness"

Said by many parents on their death bed.
.

It exists but "many" is greatly overstated.

I suppose it's found among people whose kids ended up really fucked up and-or totally estranged from them, or perhaps sociopaths who never should have had kids in the first place.

(There is probably a lot of cross-pollination among the groups above.)

But the vast majority of parents would never think that and you basically never hear stuff like that.

And it's not just because they're holding back to not hurt their kids' feelings. (Unless you have a camera focused on people's inner soul.)

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by bobbyv

Don't kid yourself Dan, one must look at the glass half full when committed to a lifelong choice. It's fortunate you'll never know what you have missed, otherwise depression sets in.

Personally I could give two sh*** about material attainment as you imply, I care more about the experience and thrill of life, I support millennials who go childless, less pollution in this world.

Huh?

The are more ways than having children to fill your life with love.

If being loved back by those you love isn't your driving force, then you and I have simply had very different life experiences.

And that's ok.