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  #61  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2016, 5:08 PM
nei nei is offline
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Maybe it's because, in France, urban living for the wealthy is the norm, and so the rich live in cities because that's what they do, not necessarily because they have urbanist tendencies. In the U.S. urban living for the wealthy is the definite exception, so wealthy people who choose to live in Manhattan are making a conscious choice to embrace an urban lifestyle?
That may be part of it, but there's still limits on how inconvenient car ownership will be due to lack of parking.

One other factor. The 11th arrondissment and the Upper East Side have similar densities but the Upper East Side has much higher average heights. Either housing unit sizes are larger in the Upper East Side, or building coverage is lower. Or likely both. Since Manhattan has larger blocks and wide roads, perhaps it's possible the total road length for street parking is smaller than dense Paris neighborhoods. Few and wider roads equals less space for street parking than more, narrow roads. Add in the smaller car lengths.

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I mean, in the U.S., if you are wealthy, there's absolutely no reason to live in an urban environment unless that's your specific preference. The default location for the rich is wealthy suburbia, with single family homes geared around the auto. But in France, the wealthy tend to live in apartments in more urban environments, and you are simply following the "rules" to live in the 7th or 16th, just as you are following the "rules" if you're a radiologist living in a wealthy suburb in Ohio or wherever.
Makes sense, I think. But I think that many affluent New Yorkers except young singles would consider buying cars if parking wasn't so expensive or inconvenient. Driving car ownership levels to maybe 50-60% instead of 25% of households. Most affluent urbanites would probably consider a car nice to have even if they don't need to use it much; for example, for getting out of the city.

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Also, maybe some wealthy urbanites in the U.S. have vehicles but in their weekend/country homes? Totally anecdotal, but I know some wealthy Manhattan families that own cars, but keep them in other home in the Hamptons or on the Connecticut coast. Would the Census pick this up?
ACS is however the respondent answers. Not sure how the question is worded. But even in Manhattan, those wealthy families aren't that large of the population. 8% of Manhattan core hoseholds have an income > $500,000. And an additional 15% $200-$500,000 / year.

http://www1.nyc.gov/assets/planning/...core_study.pdf

I'd guess the second home class would be limited to those making above maybe $350-$400k/ year, and then not all of them.
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  #62  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2016, 6:03 PM
johnnypd johnnypd is offline
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Originally Posted by Jonesy55 View Post



Here's an interactive map of England & Wales showing figures on the % of households not owning a car by locality and the average number of cars per household, data from the 2011 census.

https://fusiontables.googleuserconte...mplt=2&hml=KML
Interesting map there Jonesy, thanks. 72 percent of households in central Newcastle don't have a car. Quick look round and I think that is the highest percentage outside of London. Makes sense I guess, lots of students live in that part of town, along with a good amount of poor people, while Newcastle tends to be better covered by public transport than most other cities. I'd also note that many rural/ small town areas up north, particularly County Durham but also parts of Yorkshire and Lancs are posting above 30 percent of households without a car. I wonder how these people are getting around.
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  #63  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2016, 7:49 PM
mhays mhays is offline
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My experience in smaller English cities (mostly Tunbridge Wells, and all anecdotal) is that while most households have cars, they don't use them as often. The half-mile walk to the town center is probably on foot. Commuting into central London (common in TW) is probably by train. Only other commuting directions, groceries (for those heading to the suburban supermarkets), and excursions (outside of a decent list of train-served places) are typically by car.
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  #64  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2016, 10:37 PM
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Minato Ku Minato Ku is offline
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Originally Posted by emathias View Post
My guess is that there are a number of factors. First, the size of the average French car is quite small even compared to the size of the average car in Manhattan. Second, I wouldn't be surprised if Manhattan has more public housing that central Paris does - a huge portion of Paris public housing is in the suburbs. This is relevant because it *might* mean that there are relatively fewer low-income people in central Paris who would more naturally be transit-captive. Wealthy and/or high-income people strongly prefer to have a car just because they can. Lending credence to that idea is that the car ownership in the 7th Arr. is 3rd highest, and the 7th is the highest-income area, and the 16th Arr. has the most millionaires, an average income of still over double the average for Paris as a whole, and the highest car ownership rate.
I would not be surprised to see that public housing have a higher car ownership rate than the average of Paris.
Modern public housing buildings are more likely to have parking space.

The 16th arrondissement has plenty of residential buildings with parking space. Most of its residential stock comes from the 20th century. In some way despite its density this arrondissement can be very suburban.
The 7th and 8th have a low population and a low density of population compared with the rest of the City of Paris. The few resident can easily park their car in streets deserted during the night or in the numerous underground car parks.

The arrondissement with the lowest medium income in Paris is the 19th arrondissement, yet it has a higher car ownership rate than the average.
It can be esplained by a "large" number of buildings with parking space as well for the 15th, 13th, 12th arrondissements.
The lowest car ownership rate are for the 2nd, 10th and 3rd arrondissements, very dense area with few parking space. Those arrondissements are popular among young urbanites (hipsters and etc).

The poor Seine Saint Denis departement has a higher car ownership rate than the wealthy 16th arrondissement.
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  #65  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2016, 5:06 PM
Jonesy55 Jonesy55 is offline
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Originally Posted by johnnypd View Post
Interesting map there Jonesy, thanks. 72 percent of households in central Newcastle don't have a car. Quick look round and I think that is the highest percentage outside of London. Makes sense I guess, lots of students live in that part of town, along with a good amount of poor people, while Newcastle tends to be better covered by public transport than most other cities. I'd also note that many rural/ small town areas up north, particularly County Durham but also parts of Yorkshire and Lancs are posting above 30 percent of households without a car. I wonder how these people are getting around.
I guess if you work in the same small town that you live in (or you are retired) then you might not need to get around much, the town is probably small enough to walk around for day to day purposes and you can take a bus or train on the occasions you want to go somewhere else.
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  #66  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2016, 5:15 PM
Jonesy55 Jonesy55 is offline
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Originally Posted by mhays View Post
My experience in smaller English cities (mostly Tunbridge Wells, and all anecdotal) is that while most households have cars, they don't use them as often. The half-mile walk to the town center is probably on foot. Commuting into central London (common in TW) is probably by train. Only other commuting directions, groceries (for those heading to the suburban supermarkets), and excursions (outside of a decent list of train-served places) are typically by car.
That's probably true in many places, it's a 500m walk for me into my local town centre so I would never drive it. My normal work location is in another town which I usually drive to but I often also work in other cities (Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham, London..) and if I'm going to any of those places that particular day I will take the train. Grocery trips are a mix of walking and car then we go various places but car for weekend excursions.

The average annual mileage for a privately owned car in the UK is now down to 7,500 miles per year after declining steadily over the past 15-20 years, it was 9,000 miles in 2002.
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  #67  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2016, 7:14 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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Outside the NYC metro, does anyone know the U.S. neighborhoods with the lowest % of car ownership? I assume certain neighborhoods in Boston, Philly, DC, Chicago and SF are candidates, alongside some college towns and maybe religious enclaves?
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  #68  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2016, 11:26 PM
nei nei is offline
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Outside the NYC metro, does anyone know the U.S. neighborhoods with the lowest % of car ownership? I assume certain neighborhoods in Boston, Philly, DC, Chicago and SF are candidates, alongside some college towns and maybe religious enclaves?
How do you define a neighborhood? Smaller neighborhoods have an advantage. I'd guess it's in either San Francisco or Boston. Chicago's center is relatively car friendly compared to the rest, though the denser parts of Chicago probably rankly highly by transit + walk commute share due to job centralization. Boston has a high student population, so it should be higher than the others, except...

The Tenderloin in San Francisco has very high density (and in an old urban way) and high poverty. Chinatown for similar reasons, though probably a bit higher than the Tenderloin. The college student heavy neighborhoods of Boston are just outside the city center and not that high density, so I think it's less likely. Though there is one census tract near Northeastern that has a density of about 100k/sq mile; but that's one census tract, not a neighborhood.

Thinking about it, it has to be the Tenderloin. I can't think of any center city neighborhood of the cities listed that's as poor; and the Tenderloin might be the densest neighborhood in the US outside of the NYC metro. The Tenderloin has seen some gentrification, but mainly by those looking to live cheaply. Why would those people own a car? Checking the map below for mean number of vehicles in renter occupied homes, Tenderloin and the general downtown San Francisco area looks lower than any Boston neighborhood. Doubt there are many owner occupied homes in the Tenderloin.

http://www.city-data.com/

looking at my Boston map:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...4&postcount=44

the lowest car ownership section of the city is a section west of downtown between Northeastern and Boston University, think it's called the Fenway neighborhood. There are two census tracts lower, but I suspect they have sample size issues, and aren't large enough to be a neighborhood. I'll make a San Francisco to compare soon.
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  #69  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2016, 11:39 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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Originally Posted by nei View Post

Thinking about it, it has to be the Tenderloin. I can't think of any center city neighborhood of the cities listed that's as poor; and the Tenderloin might be the densest neighborhood in the US outside of the NYC metro. The Tenderloin has seen some gentrification, but mainly by those looking to live cheaply. Why would those people own a car? Checking the map below for mean number of vehicles in renter occupied homes, Tenderloin and the general downtown San Francisco area looks lower than any Boston neighborhood. Doubt there are many owner occupied homes in the Tenderloin.
Yeah, SF's Tenderloin and maybe Chinatown would make sense. Old-school dense, poor, lots of elderly and transient, and very limited auto accommodation. SF is kind of unique in that it's a "top tier" U.S. city, extremely desirable, yet lots of core poverty.

There are other dense urban neighborhoods outside of NYC, but the issue is they tend to be somewhat gentrified/affluent and often have newer construction, which accommodates the auto better. Chicago's East Lakeview is maybe almost as dense as Tenderloin, and over a larger geography, but is fairly affluent, and the big towers all have tons of parking. River North and Streeterville may even be denser over very small geographies, but almost everyone lives in enormous towers on garage bases.

And, yeah, Boston probably ranks highly with all the universities, but it's also true that the universities tend to be in slightly less urban enclaves. Harvard Square is dense and urban but not like Boston's core. Then there's Philly and DC, which probably have a few contending neigborhoods. DC with its young professional transients and Philly with its tight core neighborhoods probably do well.
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  #70  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2016, 8:25 PM
nei nei is offline
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Originally Posted by emathias View Post
My guess is that there are a number of factors. First, the size of the average French car is quite small even compared to the size of the average car in Manhattan. Second, I wouldn't be surprised if Manhattan has more public housing that central Paris does - a huge portion of Paris public housing is in the suburbs. This is relevant because it *might* mean that there are relatively fewer low-income people in central Paris who would more naturally be transit-captive. Wealthy and/or high-income people strongly prefer to have a car just because they can. Lending credence to that idea is that the car ownership in the 7th Arr. is 3rd highest, and the 7th is the highest-income area, and the 16th Arr. has the most millionaires, an average income of still over double the average for Paris as a whole, and the highest car ownership rate.
http://www.itdp.org/wp-content/uploa...-Turn_ITDP.pdf

I found this link which has a total on number of parking spaces for Paris (page 52):

755,000 (on-street: 165,000; off-street: 590,000)

I know the "Manhattan Core" — Manhattan south of Harlem, has 102,000 off-street parking spaces (hmm, the link numbers exclude the Upper West and East sides). Don't think any on-street space count has been done, though its use is not only by residents. The Manhattan Core has about half the population of Paris, but if you could add a ring surrounding the Manhattan Core I suspect it would still have fewer parking spaces. Regardless, Manhattan has a much lower number off-street parking spaces per capita than the Paris city proper average
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  #71  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2016, 10:19 PM
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Minato Ku Minato Ku is offline
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There are plenty of underground car parks in Paris.
http://opendata.paris.fr/explore/dat....85596,2.35597
This is just the public car parks owned by the City of Paris, there are plenty others.
Under railway terminals, shopping malls, important buildings to just name those open to everybody.

Most buildings built after the ww2 have underground car park, even in Central Paris.
Few examples
https://www.google.fr/maps/@48.84311...i13312!8i6656?

https://www.google.fr/maps/@48.84630...i13312!8i6656?

https://www.google.fr/maps/@48.86171...i13312!8i6656?

https://www.google.fr/maps/@48.85869...i13312!8i6656?
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  #72  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2017, 5:31 PM
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Yuri Yuri is offline
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Updating:

BRAZILIAN FLEET 2016 (Cars + SUVs + Pickup trucks)

Brazil's fleet reached 61 million registered cars as in Dec 2016, for 297 cars for each 1,000 people. In 2000, there were 2.6 times less: 23,098,456. Data for all the states. I'll post metro areas later:


2016

--------- Cars + SVUs + Pickups Dec 2016 --- Dec 2010 --- Growth

BRASIL --- 61.231.074 --- 43.333.074 --- 41,3%

1. SUDESTE --- 32.965.556 --- 24.197.387 --- 36,2%

2. SUL --- 13.067.204 --- 9.256.587 --- 41,2%

3. NORDESTE --- 7.792.237 --- 4.964.526 --- 57,0%

4. CENTRO-OESTE --- 5.299.711 --- 3.581.506 --- 48,0%

5. NORTE --- 2.106.366 --- 1.333.068 --- 58,0%



1. São Paulo --- 20.177.879 --- 15.260.318 --- 32,2%

2. Minas Gerais --- 6.767.544 --- 4.592.149 --- 47,4%

3. Paraná --- 5.032.967 --- 3.581.553 --- 40,5%

4. Rio de Janeiro --- 4.912.273 --- 3.561.407 --- 37,9%

5. Rio Grande do Sul --- 4.789.669 --- 3.394.649 --- 41,1%

6. Santa Catarina --- 3.244.568 --- 2.280.385 --- 42,3%

7. Goiás --- 2.147.025 --- 1.433.634 --- 49,8%

8. Bahia --- 2.109.834 --- 1.324.948 --- 59,2%

9. Pernambuco --- 1.493.165 --- 1.006.037 --- 48,4%

10. Distrito Federal --- 1.408.903 --- 1.044.561 --- 34,9%

11. Ceará --- 1.290.645 --- 818.151 --- 57,7%

12. Espírito Santo --- 1.107.860 --- 783.513 --- 41,4%

13. Mato Grosso --- 884.988 --- 544.459 --- 62,5%

14. Mato Grosso do Sul --- 858.795 --- 558.852 --- 53,7%

15. Pará --- 716.344 --- 438.327 --- 63,4%

16. Rio Grande do Norte --- 616.034 --- 400.666 --- 53,7%

17. Paraíba --- 584.391 --- 375.067 --- 55,8%

18. Maranhão --- 526.439 --- 317.267 --- 65,9%

19. Amazonas --- 475.177 --- 336.169 --- 41,3%

20. Piauí --- 416.964 --- 234.882 --- 77,5%

21. Alagoas --- 394.020 --- 252.046 --- 56,3%

22. Sergipe --- 360.745 --- 235.462 --- 53,2%

23. Rondônia --- 350.048 --- 207.059 --- 69,1%

24. Tocantins --- 263.113 --- 159.089 --- 65,4%

25. Acre --- 108.515 --- 68.111 --- 59,3%

26. Amapá --- 98.267 --- 66.749 --- 47,2%

27. Roraima --- 94.902 --- 57.564 --- 64,9%



---- Car/1,000 Inh -- Inh 2016

1. SUL --- 444 --- 29.439.773

2. SUDESTE --- 382 --- 86.356.952

3. CENTRO-OESTE --- 338 --- 15.660.988

-- BRASIL --- 297 --- 206.081.432

4. NORDESTE --- 137 --- 56.915.936

5. NORTE --- 119 --- 17.707.783



1. Distrito Federal --- 473 --- 2.977.216

2. Santa Catarina --- 470 --- 6.910.553

3. São Paulo --- 451 --- 44.749.699

4. Paraná --- 448 --- 11.242.720

5. Rio Grande do Sul --- 424 --- 11.286.500


6. Minas Gerais --- 322 --- 20.997.560

7. Goiás --- 321 --- 6.695.855

8. Mato Grosso do Sul --- 320 --- 2.682.386


--- BRASIL --- 297 --- 206.081.432

9. Rio de Janeiro --- 295 --- 16.635.996

10. Espírito Santo --- 279 --- 3.973.697


11. Mato Grosso --- 268 --- 3.305.531

12. Rondônia --- 196 --- 1.787.279

13. Roraima --- 185 --- 514.229


14. Rio Grande do Norte --- 177 --- 3.474.998

15. Tocantins --- 172 --- 1.532.902

16. Pernambuco --- 159 --- 9.410.336

17. Sergipe --- 159 --- 2.265.779

18. Paraíba --- 146 --- 3.999.415

19. Ceará --- 144 --- 8.963.663

20. Bahia --- 138 --- 15.276.566


21. Acre --- 133 --- 816.687

22. Piauí --- 130 --- 3.212.180

23. Amapá --- 126 --- 782.295

24. Amazonas --- 119 --- 4.001.667


25. Alagoas --- 117 --- 3.358.963

26. Pará --- 87 --- 8.272.724

27. Maranhão --- 76 --- 6.954.036
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  #73  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2017, 6:54 PM
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dimondpark dimondpark is offline
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Greater Los Angeles(CSA)
2015 Population: 18,679,763
2015 Registered Automobiles: 14,656,931
Autos Per 1,000 Pop: 784

LA Area Counties, Autos Per 1,000 Persons:
Ventura County 928
Orange County 893
San Bernardino County 834
Riverside County 805
Los Angeles County 770

Greater San Francisco( CSA)
2015 Population: 8,713,914
2015 Registered Automobiles: 7,498,809
Autos Per 1,000: 860

SF Bay Area Counties, Autos Per 1,000 persons:
Sonoma County 1,037
Napa County 1,021

San Mateo County 955
Marin County 942
Santa Cruz County 937
Solano County 919
Contra Costa County 887
San Joaquin County 869
Santa Clara County 860
Alameda County 827
San Francisco County 571

SD Metro:
San Diego County 873
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