What to do with 16th Street Mall (split from Denver Dev thread)

[seventwenty]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Here's my last attempt at a magical solution. The mile long Mall could be broken up by having a couple of blocks as it exists and then a block or two that are more normal streets. Even more normal blocks could have extra wide, landscaped sidewalks. Then have three blocks of total Mall and then another break and so on. I'm not against having one of the shuttle lanes moved to 15th street; it would provide more flexibility in several ways.

This is the worst option of them all. So you ruin the right of way for the shuttle and confuse drivers who drive where they're not supposed to.

Besides in a way we already have this. Pavilions in one area. DUS/LoDo in another. Sketch and crappy tshirt stores in the middle.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by enjo13

Why have one great downtown street when you can have two? This is roughly the 500th go around on this discussion and my point hasn't changed in years. People have no problem walking one block to catch the shuttle in the opposite direction. It would add a ton of foot traffic to 15th and much more nicely tie the convention center (now just a one block walk to the shuttle) into the halo that is the mall. You get much more activation for virtually no cost. You also get to either put a dedicated bike lane on 16th or move that bus lane to dead center on 16th and you get nice wide patio spaces on 16th (which is what I prefer).

Given the development opportunities on 15th this also gives a better chance of getting flagship retail built downtown. There is very little adequate space on 16th and 15th remains far too much of a ghost town (particularly up past California) to entice retailers to actually move in. This gives us a better shot in my opinion.

It's not like there isn't a model for this: Portlands streetcar runs on separate streets and can be similarly ridden for free over a stretch roughly the same size. Seems to work beautifully there.

This is a solution to another problem which I personally like. The rest of the downtown pedestrian experience sucks so *viola* add transit. It's acknowledging that the Shuttle isn't the problem on the Mall, but that it might be the solution to the problem that is 15th Street. 16th does have a problem when it comes to adequate retail space: there's not a lot of it and 15th St could provide some of that in that barren area between Arapahoe and Court.

[PLANSIT]

People keep calling it a pedestrian mall. It was built as a Transit Mall and functions really really well as one. In fact, a perpendicular Transit Mall was proposed as part of the 1986 Downtown Area Plan.

The Transit is why it is successful for how long it is. If we were talking about 5-6 blocks, sure, it probably would be fine as just a pedestrian mall. This is not the case.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Not only do I agree with enjo13's points about Millennials but I have wet dreams about Millennials. I would also add they're they're the ones that are supposed to be more liberal and socially tolerant. Being younger they're much less likely to be intimidated or bothered than older or female peoples. I'm not sure about what fat people think? Perhaps we need a survey?

Hilariously, the little post-it notes that were in the slideshow in the DBJ article show Millienials complaining about the following on the Mall:

1) Transients
2) Smoking
3) Panhandling

Sounds like a bunch of old ladies right there.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by Robert.hampton

Successful pedestrian malls can move FAR in excess of 50,000 people every day....on foot. See Ramblas, Stroget.

I said pedicabs can't move 50,000 people per day, but congrats on knocking down that strawman.

Originally Posted by RyanD

'Millennials' are the douchiest generation who doesn't give two shits about any other generation.

People say that about every young generation.

[Scottk]

Ban smoking on the mall like Boulder so the homeless people don't sit on the mall smoking cigarettes.

Ban panhandling.

Increase police patrols and actively enforce panhandling / smoking ban

[DownhomeDenver]

There's nothing wrong with the mall shuttle except maybe for the number of stops. Is it really necessary to stop every block? How about every other?

Anyway, during the day the 16th Street Mall in my observation and opinion is magical. I love it. The changes to the Pavilions has been great and we definitely need some upgraded retail...I don't necessarily see an Apple store, but I dunno a Gordman's or a Steinmart would be interesting. Those are just retailers I know of in this area I'm throwing out there. Even a Target would be nice but seems that might never come to fruition.

One of my gripes with the 16th Street Mall is that the aesthetic is definitely 1980s. But that's just me being shallow. I think it should be modernized. But do we really want to spend millions on new light posts and flower pots??? Probably not.

My other gripe is how many areas of the mall are so dark at night. So you have the lights going down the middle right? And then along some of the storefronts you might have a good spotlight here and there. Plus, there are some corners like 16th and Champa that are just brightly lit up and pretty damn fantastic.

However, there are some blocks that are just way too dimly lit and when an area is dimly lit, trouble brews. I think some additional lights posts along the wide sidewalks would be nice adjacent to the store fronts in order to give that feeling of security. Would it really help cut down on crime, I don't know.

I really like what the DDP has done with the gardens and the vendors in the center strip. I don't want to compare Pearl Street to 16th Street cuz theyre two totally different animals, but I think there needs to be more family friendly amenities maybe added somewhere along the mall. Not necessarily do we need a playground, but some areas where little kids could climb on stuff, or maybe experience some urban art up close and personal like. That's about the only thing I've noticed about Pearl Street is the attention to the family--albeit rich white families most likely.

I digress....

Again, I'm not a millenial and I don't live downtown....so my opinion carries about enough weight as a TakeFive post about Easy Like Sunday Morning. hehe, it's time to get a new song pal.

Peace!

[EngiNerd]

Originally Posted by DownhomeDenver

There's nothing wrong with the mall shuttle except maybe for the number of stops. Is it really necessary to stop every block? How about every other?

Anyway, during the day the 16th Street Mall in my observation and opinion is magical. I love it. The changes to the Pavilions has been great and we definitely need some upgraded retail...I don't necessarily see an Apple store, but I dunno a Gordman's or a Steinmart would be interesting. Those are just retailers I know of in this area I'm throwing out there. Even a Target would be nice but seems that might never come to fruition.

One of my gripes with the 16th Street Mall is that the aesthetic is definitely 1980s. But that's just me being shallow. I think it should be modernized. But do we really want to spend millions on new light posts and flower pots??? Probably not.

My other gripe is how many areas of the mall are so dark at night. So you have the lights going down the middle right? And then along some of the storefronts you might have a good spotlight here and there. Plus, there are some corners like 16th and Champa that are just brightly lit up and pretty damn fantastic.

However, there are some blocks that are just way too dimly lit and when an area is dimly lit, trouble brews. I think some additional lights posts along the wide sidewalks would be nice adjacent to the store fronts in order to give that feeling of security. Would it really help cut down on crime, I don't know.

I really like what the DDP has done with the gardens and the vendors in the center strip. I don't want to compare Pearl Street to 16th Street cuz theyre two totally different animals, but I think there needs to be more family friendly amenities maybe added somewhere along the mall. Not necessarily do we need a playground, but some areas where little kids could climb on stuff, or maybe experience some urban art up close and personal like. That's about the only thing I've noticed about Pearl Street is the attention to the family--albeit rich white families most likely.

I digress....

Again, I'm not a millenial and I don't live downtown....so my opinion carries about enough weight as a TakeFive post about Easy Like Sunday Morning. hehe, it's time to get a new song pal.

Peace!

You could probably accommodate both of those in one shot, have a sculpture piece that can also be climbed on and interacted with. I remember as a kid my father worked in the Park Central building and they used to have an intricate water sculpture in the skyline park side that I would play around on along with other kids. They could easily do something like that

[Scottk]

Everybody is hating on take five lately wtf

He is one of the most respectful posters on this forum and is always contributing to the discussion in a positive way.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by DownhomeDenver

The changes to the Pavilions has been great

What changes? #HaventBeenThereInAFewYears