NEW YORK | 15 Penn Plaza (Hotel Penn) | 1,200 FT / 388 M | 61 FLOORS

[JMKeynes]

Hopefully, this horrible site to the north is developed first. The state needs to condemn this piece of junk.

[NYguy]

No demo permits yet…


http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/Jo...ssdocnumber=02

ARCHITECTRUAL WORK ASSOCIATED WITH THE REMOVAL OF THE MARQUEE AND NON-STRUCTURAL DECORATIVE COLONADE AS INDICATED ON DRAWINGS.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

Hopefully, this horrible site to the north is developed first. The state needs to condemn this piece of junk.

That building will come down in a later phase….

[JMKeynes]

That's what I was afraid of. That block is disgusting.

[NYguy]

Still not completely sold on this design, and we still haven't seen the northern side renderings. But compared to the amount of renderings released for 270 Park Avenue (exactly 0), it's at least something to look at.

Of course, JPMC doesn't need to lease any floors, but still.


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6. Only slight differences in between these 2 renderings.








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[JMKeynes]

I think that it’s a beautiful tower. I can’t get excited about anything in this cesspool of an area though until the excrement on the adjacent block is razed.

Governor Hoochul should exercise the powers of eminent domain.

I don’t see this being built until this area is dramatically improved. No one will pay $175/sf for this area. Further, the mere fact that Vornado is proceeding with demo means nothing. As I recall, the Bloomberg site on Lex sat empty for years.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

I think that it’s a beautiful tower. I can’t get excited about anything in this cesspool of an area though until the excrement on the adjacent block is razed.

One thing I do know, is that in New York, businesses come and go. Those that can make it remain. The fact that so many of the businesses in that stretch have been there for so long tells me it's not the "cesspool" you keep screaming that it is.

Even so, with rents naturally going up in the area, there will be some that have to close and move, one way or another.

[JMKeynes]

I believe that Vornado also owns this garbage on 7th. To the extent that, Vornado is willing to forego revenue at the Hotel Penn, it should also raze this junk and make it a really nice plaza until it can redevelop that building.

[jackster99]

I do understand the dislike for this tower, same with Tower Fifth. However, I would be ecstatic to see both rise. Shows how spoiled we have become with NYC, that people would rather a 1270 ft and 1556 ft tall behemoths NOT rise, because they don't like the aesthetics. The skyline is so massive, these won't ruin it, they just become a sum of 110+ buildings over 650 feet tall. Both will be built of the highest quality materials too, you can bet on that.

[JMKeynes]

I like how they show the hideous tower on the next corner with a new facade.

[gttx]

I'm sure it's been said many times in this thread, but "Penn 15" is a ridiculous name.

[JMKeynes]

As noted, I think that this will be a gorgeous tower, but I really have gripes with this area. It’s DISGUSTING. I used to take the train from Penn a lot, and I hated going there. It's literally the worst area south of 96th Street.

However, it has so much potential. There are beautiful, old buildings all over that just need TLC. Thus, one day, this area will change and will be amazing just like the Grand Central area has changed. It used to be disgusting too, yet now, it’s beautiful and is getting better and better.

Vornado must acquire the whole block to the north, and if, as reported, the owner remains intransigent, Hoochul should exercise eminent domain.

This area also needs greenery. It's a shame that our society is too broke to build a new Bryant Park/Madison Sq./Union Sq.

This gross crap on 34th must come down too.

[Busy Bee]

Start.

Over.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by NYguy

I’m more offended by the base, as it’s currently constituted. Respect the streetwall, or just give us a plaza.



Some of the original looks...

I hope they go back to the original designs. I don't think the current design will age well and its brutalist design detracts from the graceful Empire State building.

[Barney Greengrass]

This is going to require soooo many leaf blowers! Lol

Just like the Spiral, I'm very dubious of these designs that rely on large scale foliage in four seasons NYC. That almost never turns out well, and we've never seen anything on the scale of these. What's appropriate for Singapore doesn't necessarily work here.

I visit A LOT of offices in this city, and one thing I've noticed is the places that do have lofty outdoor space generally don't use it, and it just becomes dirty and trashy and a windblown nuisance. I'm sure there are exceptions, but I really haven't seen them. Actually the only place I saw that really used its roof space was Spotify in the Flatiron, but then they went and moved to 4 WTC where they have none.

Maybe it's a new trend, but I'm betting it's a mistake.

[rgarri4]

Yeah I'm still not a fan. There are so many more graceful ways to create outdoor space without sacrificing the form of the tower. Just wished they studied that more. Especially since its a supertall.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Boerumer

This is going to require soooo many leaf blowers! Lol

Just like the Spiral, I'm very dubious of these designs that rely on large scale foliage in four seasons NYC. That almost never turns out well, and we've never seen anything on the scale of these.

I think too much is made of the "green" in these spaces (for example, the Spiral). The green is only there because its outdoor space. When we have these spaces at street level - with trees - no one complains about having foliage for four seasons. The point of that outdoor space is that it's outdoor space. If it's green in the summertime, and cold in the wintertime, well yes. Welcome to New York. It's not supposed to be green year 'round.

Developers build what tenants want, it's how things get built. This is where things have been moving for a while now, so much so that everyone should be used to it. Even the older buildings with setbacks are now taking advantage setbacks creating outdoor and green space. With streets as crowded as they are in Manhattan, and outdoor space being rare, it's an advantage buildings that do have it have over buildings that don't.


Now, I still find this design to be very "busy". And I don't like this particular design so close to the Empire State. But I completely understand what they are doing. I think it would go over better on Park Avenue. I'm not a fan of the base, and how it disrupts the streetwall.


At 350 Park, another Vornado/Foster team up, they don't have room for the larger floorplates.




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[tdawg]

Those trees are going to kill and maim a lot of people.

[BK1985]

While the design isn’t my favorite, I’m fine with it. We always gripe about how developers are just building boring boxes and don’t do anything new. Well this is something new. Maybe it will work, maybe it won’t. Not every building is going to be an icon.

[BK1985]

Originally Posted by DCReid

I hope they go back to the original designs. I don't think the current design will age well and its brutalist design detracts from the graceful Empire State building.

The market has totally changed to the point that the pelli design is outdated. open spaces and wellness are definitely a bigger selling feature for office designs now.