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  #1421  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2015, 4:07 PM
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Went to check out the SMART train yesterday parked outside the Marin Co Fair at the future Civic Center Station. The train will also be there today and tomorrow, available for viewing 12pm-7pm.

Hard to tell from the photos, but first thing you realize walking up to this thing, is that this is a REAL train - not some puny light rail train.








One car has a bathroom, the other a small concession stand (and yes, you will be able to travel between cars)











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  #1422  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2015, 5:32 PM
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If by "real train" you mean looks typically American... being designed without an ounce of sex appeal or current fashionability, built twice as heavy as needed and has all the aesthetic appeal of an armored vehicle, than yes, it's a "real train."

I would much prefer this than those bespoke tanks:


Pesa

...or the new Stadler Flirt (off the shelf) DMU's ordered by TexasRail:


Stadler
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  #1423  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2015, 7:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
If by "real train" you mean looks typically American... being designed without an ounce of sex appeal or current fashionability, built twice as heavy as needed and has all the aesthetic appeal of an armored vehicle, than yes, it's a "real train."
Wow. Talk about trolling. That's just your opinion, man.

By real train, I mean it's not streetcar-like.

If you couldn't tell from the pictures, the train IS damn sexy, was designed by the Japanese, and is FRA-compliant (the trains you show aren't). This line is being shared with freight so that is a must.

It also goes 80mph, and is CHEAPER.

I've been to Japan several times and have ridden dozens if not hundreds of trains (including Shinkansens). I know what a real train is, and this is a real train.
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Last edited by northbay; Jul 2, 2015 at 7:53 PM.
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  #1424  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2015, 8:10 PM
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A post with a strong opinion does not "trolling" make. I've read these forums since 1998, and a member since 2006. I'm fairly confident that excludes me from being labelled a "troll."
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  #1425  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2015, 8:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
A post with a strong opinion does not "trolling" make. I've read these forums since 1998, and a member since 2006. I'm fairly confident that excludes me from being labelled a "troll."
Look, I'm just posting pictures of my local train system under construction and someone comes in and says my system sucks. If that's not trolling, then it certainly isn't very nice or positive behavior.

I don't go in other region's forums putting down everything (though I do follow other regions).
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  #1426  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2015, 9:26 PM
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Actually the trains Busy-Bee show are FRA Compliment....and are real trains used in 60% of the World with the exception of the US....and Canada....
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  #1427  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2015, 9:34 PM
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Great. I never said they weren't real trains. This is forum for the Bay Area, not the rest of the world.

Geez, you guys make me not want to go through all the trouble of sharing pictures on this forum!
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  #1428  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2015, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northbay View Post
Wow. Talk about trolling. That's just your opinion, man.

By real train, I mean it's not streetcar-like.

If you couldn't tell from the pictures, the train IS damn sexy, was designed by the Japanese, and is FRA-compliant (the trains you show aren't). This line is being shared with freight so that is a must.

It also goes 80mph, and is CHEAPER.

I've been to Japan several times and have ridden dozens if not hundreds of trains (including Shinkansens). I know what a real train is, and this is a real train.
When SMART and DCTA ordered their equipment the FRA split was still in effect. SMART went with the cheaper FRA compliant cars and DCTA went with Stadler GTWs which at the time required temporal separation as on New Jersey's Riverline and Austin's Capital Metro.

While the GTWs were on order, DCTA went to the FRA and received alternative certification as shown here.

http://www.progressiverailroading.co...thority--31230

For a brief time DCTA operated some trains with leased RDCs and their new GTWs.

The FLIRT3 train had better be FRA certified now since Fort Worth's TEXRAIL will share 3 miles of Union Pacific mainline between downtown Fort Worth and north Fort Worth.

I like the SMART trains and the GTWs and the FLIRT3s. But I am so old I like the RDCs, too.
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  #1429  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2015, 10:29 PM
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There's nothing wrong with some reasonable criticism of a train design. Many people (including locals) were far, far more critical of the Denver RTD commuter rail train design, which is much boxier and utilitarian than the SMART car. Some people even used the SMART cars as an example of a better looking FRA-compliant train than RTD's Hyundais.

The SMART project appears to be a success. Could it have better looking trains? It's possible, but we can't all have trains that look like the TGV, and at the end of the day, it's still transportation after all.
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  #1430  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2015, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northbay View Post
Great. I never said they weren't real trains. This is forum for the Bay Area, not the rest of the world.

Geez, you guys make me not want to go through all the trouble of sharing pictures on this forum!
I really enjoyed the pics and your write up. Thanks for taking the time to post
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  #1431  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2015, 11:21 PM
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^Thank you. Here's more pics (not by me this time).

Posted by the mod fieldofdreams on SSC:

Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
^^ I went in today, and I must say that I am totally impressed with this train. Hands down my new favorite vehicle that will significantly help me with my commutes in the North Bay.


DSC01144 by Anthony Nachor, on Flickr


DSC01145 by Anthony Nachor, on Flickr


DSC01152 by Anthony Nachor, on Flickr


DSC01153 by Anthony Nachor, on Flickr


DSC01156 by Anthony Nachor, on Flickr


DSC01159 by Anthony Nachor, on Flickr


DSC01161 by Anthony Nachor, on Flickr


DSC01162 by Anthony Nachor, on Flickr


DSC01166 by Anthony Nachor, on Flickr


DSC01167 by Anthony Nachor, on Flickr


DSC01171 by Anthony Nachor, on Flickr


DSC01173 by Anthony Nachor, on Flickr


DSC01175 by Anthony Nachor, on Flickr


DSC01177 by Anthony Nachor, on Flickr


DSC01189 by Anthony Nachor, on Flickr

I will find a way to design the seating chart since I drew it on paper.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...#post125264162
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  #1432  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2015, 11:58 PM
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I appreciate the pics, and think these trains look pretty good.
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  #1433  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2015, 12:56 AM
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Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by redblock View Post
While the GTWs were on order, DCTA went to the FRA and received alternative certification as shown here.

For a brief time DCTA operated some trains with leased RDCs and their new GTWs.

The FLIRT3 train had better be FRA certified now since Fort Worth's TEXRAIL will share 3 miles of Union Pacific mainline between downtown Fort Worth and north Fort Worth.

I like the SMART trains and the GTWs and the FLIRT3s. But I am so old I like the RDCs, too.
I really didn't want to nitpick TexRail comments on a SMART thread, but......

DMUs on shorter trains are more efficient than coaches being push or pulled by heavy diesel locomotives. Just compare horsepowers to see that statistic generally.

F59PH (a common diesel locomotive in commuter service) has 3,200 hp (2.4 MW).

Stadler GTW 2/6 in use in the US has 630 hp (470 KW) Therefore 2 GTWs running together in a consist will have a total of 1260 hp.

Nippon Sharyo DMU in use in the US has 760 hp (567 kW). Therefore, 2 DMUs running together as a married pair will have a total of 1520 hp.

Then to complicate matters very much, the different type of cars hold a different number of passengers. But there are savings on fuel consumption for DMUs mainly because the engines used are smaller in size. It's hard to put on paper which DMU is more efficient. More seats doesn't mean more efficient if the seats are not full. But there is a point when too many DMUs are placed on a train where the total hp surpasses a single F59PH loco.

The TexRail train will usually not operate on UP and BNSF tracks or within their right-of-ways. Those 3 miles north of downtown Fort Worth will be on brand new tracks in a brand new corridor parallel to them, except where it will flyover a UP yard just north of the Purina plant. Where TexRail turns onto the ex-Cotton Belt line at Tower 60 (near the stockyards), it will remain on a brand new exclusive track within the DART owned corridor until after the FWWR owned Hodge Yard, east of the yard it will share tracks with everyone using the Cotton Belt track through Grapevine and then turn south to DFW Airport where it will again run over brand new tracks in a brand new corridor. Therefore, it will be sharing tracks with Amtrak and the TRE through downtown Fort Worth, and with everyone on the ex-Cotton Belt tracks east of Hodge Yard.

The FLIRT and GTW crash impact designs are similar, and it should easily qualify for the same alternate FRA certification standard. TexRail trains will not be operating overnight, when FWWR freight trains could run trains to local customers if temporal separation is required. There really aren't many freight customers east of Hodge Yard where an overnight train couldn't handle the work. The only trains they must run concurrently with will be Grapevine Vintage, Amtrak (Texas Eagle), and TRE passenger trains. The only time the Heartland Flyer will be sharing the same tracks with TexRail is on just the UT-OU weekend each year. I'm pretty sure the FLIRT trains will be able to get FRA certification to share tracks with passenger trains at least.

Last edited by electricron; Jul 3, 2015 at 1:08 AM.
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  #1434  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2015, 4:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesCO View Post
Look at this! First pictures of the first new BART car to be manufactured in centuries!



http://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2015/news20150617-1
Not liking that third door. BART is mainly a suburban rail system and people generally travel fairly long distances, I don't think it's necessary to add another door at the expensive of seats.
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  #1435  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2015, 4:35 AM
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The third door is the most important new feature. It will allow people to get in and out of the trains faster, meaning shorter dwell times at stations, meaning those longer trips will take less time. BART is at capacity and fewer seats means more standing room. Trains are at crush loads during rush hours, and ridership will only continue to grow. The new cars are intended to address that.
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  #1436  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2015, 4:36 AM
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Probably has more to do with the berthing time in the downtown stations. Decreasing that turnaround time increases capacity, and a third set of doors would definitely be beneficial in that goal.
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  #1437  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2015, 4:37 AM
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Looks like we got to that question at the same time fflint.
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  #1438  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2015, 6:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fflint View Post
The third door is the most important new feature. It will allow people to get in and out of the trains faster, meaning shorter dwell times at stations, meaning those longer trips will take less time. BART is at capacity and fewer seats means more standing room. Trains are at crush loads during rush hours, and ridership will only continue to grow. The new cars are intended to address that.
Yea I get that...but standing room only for all those commuters going to the East Bay or down near Milbrae! Phew I guess there will be enough people getting off at a certain point that people can start moving to seats. So yea, this makes sense.

Can't wait for the new MUNI trains as well. Also a system that is just crushed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by northbay View Post
Great. I never said they weren't real trains. This is forum for the Bay Area, not the rest of the world.

Geez, you guys make me not want to go through all the trouble of sharing pictures on this forum!

Thanks for posting the pics and all of that information. I'm on your side - I think there's warranted criticism and a pleasant way to go about it, and then there's whatever these other guys were saying. These trains look older, but aren't they older/being reused/recycled?

Speaking of, it looks like the one guy, who is clearly self unaware, is referring to NEW trains between Fort Worth and DFW. He may not realize that the Metroplex is still not quite on the cutting edge of transit (especially given its size of 7 million area residents) despite how fancy those trains look. These SMART trains are running through rural Sonoma County, not a major metropolis and not to one of the world's busiest airports! I think it's great that we are putting trains back in what is essentially mostly ag land. Public transit does not have to be exclusive to major urban centers. Sometimes things need to be done on cheap - we can get far more transit implemented if we are often a little less concerned with aesthetics.
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  #1439  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2015, 7:20 PM
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For SMART... any word on the types of concessions they will have at the snack bar? Alcoholic drinks? Just chips and soda? Packages sandwiches? Postcards and playing cards? That's really cool, as far as I know almost unheard of now in the US for a non-Amtrak train to have on-board concessions.

So I see there is funding and a plan to extend the line as planned south to Larkspur but why isn't it directly connecting to the Larkspur ferry terminal, clearly the logical place for it?!? Nuts to have to take a shuttle bus or walk a good distance between the two. Please tell me there is a long term plan to build a flyover to bring the train directly to the ferryboat dock like a logical intermodal connection would be anywhere outside the US or like any in the US built before WWII. I hear the claim that most riders are within Marin & Sonoma but with a good connection to SF via the ferry I have to believe it would get a lot commuters to SF and day trippers from SF if it was a seamless painless connection.
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  #1440  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2015, 7:42 PM
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How much of the system is going to be single/double track?
What is the plan for the ROW to Napa Junction?
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