US Cities Overlooked by Foreign Tourists

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

I mean why come across the ocean to visit Miami when you can take a 2 hour flight to Nice or Naples?

Miami doesn't really share any similarities with Nice or Naples. Naples primary draws are history and culture. Fantastic museums with almost unrivaled treasures from antiquity. Nice is a historic town, with laughably horrible beaches.

[dc_denizen]

ok fine , costa del sol or wherever the brits all hang out in southern spain

[Shawn]

Some of this will sound harsh, but please remember it's coming directly from the mouths of a vast - and wealthy - target audience: East Asian tourists.

Chicago does poorly in my part of the world, because 1. Illinois doesn't prioritize promoting Chicago over the rest of the state, and 2. since most of this target audience already lives in big cities, "why would I fly half way across the world to visit Big City Not New York?" LA offers a drastically different experience as an East Asian tourist than New York does; Chicago simply doesn't. There's no definitive hook. Nagoya suffers from the same predicament in Japan.

Philadelphia sometimes doesn't even index unaided. Sedona, AZ indexed higher than Philly in an August 2018 qual/quant we ran across Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan. And that was in-audience (i.e. travelers), not the general public. I've said this many times here: Pennsylvania does as bad a job at promoting itself in APAC as Massachusetts, New York, and Washington do good jobs.

Miami's popularity is mainly with Europeans and South Americans. It's not a Top 20 for any of my markets. Same with Orlando. Las Vegas, on the other hand, is still hugely popular; it doesn't matter how big Macau or Jeju get, the prestige will always be on the Strip.

Nothing in the South does well among APAC tourists either. Which is a shame, because New Orleans is without a doubt one of the few cities in the US which can offer an actual unique experience unlike anything you can find over here. But yeah, beyond name recognition (Atlanta: Olympics, Dallas: "Texas") and among specific industries (SxSW helps Austin here), places like Houston and Tampa are blanks. Vietnam isn't one of my market responsibilities, but I know Houston at least has strong unaided awareness there due to the large volume of back-and-forth with the big Houston Vietnamese community. Vietnamese-TexMex is the shit right now in HCMC. I'm jealous.

Denver? Pittsburgh? Minneapolis? Blank stares, guys, blank stares.

[Shawn]

Originally Posted by ChiMIchael

I think what it comes down to is whether foreigners desire to consume US culture when they visit.

Bingo.

And again, since the majority of APAC tourists already live in big, healthy cities with excellent transit and walkability, there's really no draw for your average North American city. "We already have all of this, but better" is the attitude.

Japanese, Korean, and Taiwanese tourists visit the mainland US for 3 reasons:

1. Nature: National Parks are huge draws
2. American pop culture (i.e. where in LA or NYC their favorite sitcoms or movies were filmed)
3. "Big America": indulging in renting a big-ass gas guzzler SUV or sports car, driving on big-ass American highways, and eating big-ass portions of unhealthy American food. You can get this experience basically anywhere in the country, although the ideal image is often California (for the sunny skies and wide highways).

We break the mainland out, because Hawaii / Guam / Saipan are different markets with different appeal points. Hawaii alone gets more Japanese, Korean, and Taiwanese tourists annually than the rest of the US does combined.

[Will O' Wisp]

^I'll add on to the above with two more that apply more to pac rim countries beyond Japan, Korea, and Taiwan

4. Shopping: in mainland China and SEA, American goods are often seen as much higher class than local ones
5. Visiting relatives: usually it's parents visiting their children while they go to college

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by Shawn

Bingo.

And again, since the majority of APAC tourists already live in big, healthy cities with excellent transit and walkability, there's really no draw for your average North American city. "We already have all of this, but better" is the attitude.

Japanese, Korean, and Taiwanese tourists visit the mainland US for 3 reasons:

1. Nature: National Parks are huge draws
2. American pop culture (i.e. where in LA or NYC their favorite sitcoms or movies were filmed)
3. "Big America": indulging in renting a big-ass gas guzzler SUV or sports car, driving on big-ass American highways, and eating big-ass portions of unhealthy American food. You can get this experience basically anywhere in the country, although the ideal image is often California (for the sunny skies and wide highways).

We break the mainland out, because Hawaii / Guam / Saipan are different markets with different appeal points. Hawaii alone gets more Japanese, Korean, and Taiwanese tourists annually than the rest of the US does combined.

Mostly matches my experiences in Europe. Foreign visitors are just not that interested in American cities or culture beyond pop culture.

My dad has some friends in rural Germany with a house full of American paraphernalia, but it was all artifacts and photos of Route 66, Cowboy ghost towns, Native Americans, Florida Keys, Yosemite, Yellowstone, Grand Canyon with the only sign of actual American cities being the Hollywood sign and the Empire State Building.

Africa and South America get similar treatment. One or two cities that foreigners have some interest in and then off to the Serengeti or the rainforests.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I think a lot of American cities make it very hard for tourists to discover them due to lack of transit infrastructure, so I don't think there are many that are easy places to visit but still don't attract tourists. One city that probably does fit the criteria is Philly. Philadelphia has relatively good transit, intact urban neighborhoods, and top cultural institutions. It is also really easy to get to from NYC, but being so close to NYC might actually work against it as a tourist destination.

And DC... Philly is the least popular kid of the three... and Baltimore is the forgotten, disabled stepchild who lives in a group home.

And Baltimore is even my favorite of the NYC-Philly-Baltimore-DC cluster in certain ways.

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

Of those, Miami, vegas, and Orlando are the US equivalent of Marbella or Benidorm or some chintzy crap elsewhere in spain.

I mean why come across the ocean to visit Miami when you can take a 2 hour flight to Nice or Naples?

All in all, those beaches and weather year-round have nothing on Miami's.

[pj3000]

And not to toot my own horn, but... toot toot:


"The three most beautiful cities in the world are Paris; St. Petersburg, Russia; and Pittsburgh.

If Pittsburgh were situated somewhere in the heart of Europe, tourists would eagerly journey hundreds of miles out of their way to visit it. Its setting is spectacular."

- Brendan Gill, Architecture Critic, The New Yorker, January 9, 1989

[jd3189]

People visit Miami for the tropical Latin vibe, Art Deco architecture, warm beaches, and proximity to the Caribbean. A very unique experience in the South and US as a whole.

Outside NYC, LA, SF, New Orleans, and a few other cities, many American cities are essentially the same or unknown in the eyes of tourists. Chicago has a distinct vibe, but how distinct is it from NYC? And if so, how likely would a tourist choose it over NYC if they haven't been to the latter yet?

But since Orlando is on the list, the average tourist doesn't care about the intricacies of a city. Many barely ( if at all) venture out to the non-tourist areas. I bet 90% of the people who visit Orlando haven't even been to Downtown. They flew in and got a shuttle to Disney World and that was the end of it. Most people who visit NYC only visit Manhattan, and in Manhattan itself most people just stay near Times Square. Same with Hollywood BLVD in LA.

The Las Vegas strip is the main thing that brings people to the middle of a desert and there is no urban form or anything worth checking out a block or two out of the main Blvd.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by Shawn

Some of this will sound harsh, but please remember it's coming directly from the mouths of a vast - and wealthy - target audience: East Asian tourists.

Chicago does poorly in my part of the world, because 1. Illinois doesn't prioritize promoting Chicago over the rest of the state, and 2. since most of this target audience already lives in big cities, "why would I fly half way across the world to visit Big City Not New York?" LA offers a drastically different experience as an East Asian tourist than New York does; Chicago simply doesn't. There's no definitive hook. Nagoya suffers from the same predicament in Japan.

Philadelphia sometimes doesn't even index unaided. Sedona, AZ indexed higher than Philly in an August 2018 qual/quant we ran across Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan. And that was in-audience (i.e. travelers), not the general public. I've said this many times here: Pennsylvania does as bad a job at promoting itself in APAC as Massachusetts, New York, and Washington do good jobs.

Miami's popularity is mainly with Europeans and South Americans. It's not a Top 20 for any of my markets. Same with Orlando. Las Vegas, on the other hand, is still hugely popular; it doesn't matter how big Macau or Jeju get, the prestige will always be on the Strip.

Nothing in the South does well among APAC tourists either. Which is a shame, because New Orleans is without a doubt one of the few cities in the US which can offer an actual unique experience unlike anything you can find over here. But yeah, beyond name recognition (Atlanta: Olympics, Dallas: "Texas") and among specific industries (SxSW helps Austin here), places like Houston and Tampa are blanks. Vietnam isn't one of my market responsibilities, but I know Houston at least has strong unaided awareness there due to the large volume of back-and-forth with the big Houston Vietnamese community. Vietnamese-TexMex is the shit right now in HCMC. I'm jealous.

Denver? Pittsburgh? Minneapolis? Blank stares, guys, blank stares.

Yeah, I think Chicago has more appeal for Europeans, since it's a very different kind of city than European cities. But NYC sucks up most of that type of traffic. On the other hand, the Art Institute/Field Museum/etc. need to be marketed better. Only a handful of cities in the world have a better museum game than Chicago, although there is still room for improvement here to capitalize on some things, with some missed opportunities (like, Albuquerque has the Nuclear Museum, St. Louis has the Blues Museum, and Las Vegas has the Mob Museum... a good argument could be made for having all of those in Chicago).

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by jd3189

People visit Miami for the tropical Latin vibe, Art Deco architecture, warm beaches, and proximity to the Caribbean. A very unique experience in the South and US as a whole.

Outside NYC, LA, SF, New Orle
Here is a list of museums that Chicago COULD have, but doesn't:


The Blues Museum (St. Louis "stole" this, but we can probably do it better)
The House of House Music (this is in progress, I think)
The Nuclear Museum (there's one in Albuquerque, but it started at UChicago)
The Chicago Museum of Style (surely there are enough grammar nerds? Maybe this won't help internationally. )
The Mob Museum (for some reason this is in Las Vegas...)
ans, and a few other cities, many American cities are essentially the same or unknown in the eyes of tourists. Chicago has a distinct vibe, but how distinct is it from NYC? And if so, how likely would a tourist choose it over NYC if they haven't been to the latter yet?

But since Orlando is on the list, the average tourist doesn't care about the intricacies of a city. Many barely ( if at all) venture out to the non-tourist areas. I bet 90% of the people who visit Orlando haven't even been to Downtown. They flew in and got a shuttle to Disney World and that was the end of it. Most people who visit NYC only visit Manhattan, and in Manhattan itself most people just stay near Times Square. Same with Hollywood BLVD in LA.

The Las Vegas strip is the main thing that brings people to the middle of a desert and there is no urban form or anything worth checking out a block or two out of the main Blvd.

Las Vegas is also close to the Grand Canyon (and a bunch of other natural sights, though those aren't nearly as popular) though.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by jd3189

People visit Miami for the tropical Latin vibe, Art Deco architecture, warm beaches, and proximity to the Caribbean. A very unique experience in the South and US as a whole.

Outside NYC, LA, SF, New Orleans, and a few other cities, many American cities are essentially the same or unknown in the eyes of tourists. Chicago has a distinct vibe, but how distinct is it from NYC? And if so, how likely would a tourist choose it over NYC if they haven't been to the latter yet?

But since Orlando is on the list, the average tourist doesn't care about the intricacies of a city. Many barely ( if at all) venture out to the non-tourist areas. I bet 90% of the people who visit Orlando haven't even been to Downtown. They flew in and got a shuttle to Disney World and that was the end of it. Most people who visit NYC only visit Manhattan, and in Manhattan itself most people just stay near Times Square. Same with Hollywood BLVD in LA.

The Las Vegas strip is the main thing that brings people to the middle of a desert and there is no urban form or anything worth checking out a block or two out of the main Blvd.

I hear this often for LA, and it's confusing. In LA, the hotels and tourist districts are scattered and tourists dont really like the Walk of Fame. And if they're seeing the LA basin, it's really spread out. There is a "touristy section" of LA like there is for Manhattan, although it's still tough a comparison.

[dave8721]

Originally Posted by Shawn

Bingo.

And again, since the majority of APAC tourists already live in big, healthy cities with excellent transit and walkability, there's really no draw for your average North American city. "We already have all of this, but better" is the attitude.

Japanese, Korean, and Taiwanese tourists visit the mainland US for 3 reasons:

1. Nature: National Parks are huge draws
2. American pop culture (i.e. where in LA or NYC their favorite sitcoms or movies were filmed)
3. "Big America": indulging in renting a big-ass gas guzzler SUV or sports car, driving on big-ass American highways, and eating big-ass portions of unhealthy American food. You can get this experience basically anywhere in the country, although the ideal image is often California (for the sunny skies and wide highways).

We break the mainland out, because Hawaii / Guam / Saipan are different markets with different appeal points. Hawaii alone gets more Japanese, Korean, and Taiwanese tourists annually than the rest of the US does combined.

^This. Along with 10023's post, outside of NYC there aren't really too many US cities that are worth travelling half way across the world to check out. What the US does do well is nature. The Grand Canyon, Yellowstone, Yosemite, Sequoia, basically all of Hawaii...etc. Those are things that people will travel from Europe or Asia to see.

[dave8721]

Originally Posted by jd3189

People visit Miami for the tropical Latin vibe, Art Deco architecture, warm beaches, and proximity to the Caribbean. A very unique experience in the South and US as a whole.

Outside NYC, LA, SF, New Orleans, and a few other cities, many American cities are essentially the same or unknown in the eyes of tourists. Chicago has a distinct vibe, but how distinct is it from NYC? And if so, how likely would a tourist choose it over NYC if they haven't been to the latter yet?

But since Orlando is on the list, the average tourist doesn't care about the intricacies of a city. Many barely ( if at all) venture out to the non-tourist areas. I bet 90% of the people who visit Orlando haven't even been to Downtown. They flew in and got a shuttle to Disney World and that was the end of it. Most people who visit NYC only visit Manhattan, and in Manhattan itself most people just stay near Times Square. Same with Hollywood BLVD in LA.

The Las Vegas strip is the main thing that brings people to the middle of a desert and there is no urban form or anything worth checking out a block or two out of the main Blvd.

Its also a few hours away from Orlando which is also high on the list. Many tourists do both. Plus it is the worlds #1 Cruise ship boarding point (or at least was when Cruise ships were a thing). Tourists will often come for a few days before boarding cruises out into the Caribbean.

[Yuri]

Bar Mexico and Canada, Brazil is only behind Britain, Japan and China as the main source for tourists to the US.

And for them the US is only New York, Orlando and Miami. That's it. Then, for experient travelers, you have something left for Chicago, Washington, Boston, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Las Vegas, but that's it.

[pj3000]

There are just so damn many sizable cities over a very large geographic area in the US, it makes sense that foreign tourists generally stick to the big, usual suspects. American tourists do the same, but there are obviously far less big cities to choose from in popular travel destinations.

If you’re a foreign tourist traveling to the US, why the hell are you going to pick St. Louis or Charlotte or Minneapolis?

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by pj3000

There are just so damn many sizable cities over a very large geographic area in the US, it makes sense that foreign tourists generally stick to the big, usual suspects. American tourists do the same, but there are obviously far less big cities to choose from in popular travel destinations.

If you’re a foreign tourist traveling to the US, why the hell are you going to pick St. Louis or Charlotte or Minneapolis?

Foreign trips are expensive and mostly vacations are rather short, so it only makes sense for foreign tourists to focus where the main attractions are. I've been to Europe three times, never to the US and even though I'm a very efficient tourist, squeezing most things in, I'm aware I didn't even scratch the surface.

I, for instance, would love to get to know the Great Lakes region extensively, but would I do it before visiting New York or Los Angeles? Or would I skip the US altogether and head back to Europe on my next vacations?

[Crawford]

I think it's pretty straightforward. Most leisure travelers seek different/unique things from their common routines. Does any American visit Europe seeking big box stores, tract housing and sprawl? Similarly, why would Europeans visit American cities domestically known for history and/or urbanity, unless there's a unique or best-in-class draw?

In contrast, our National Parks are iconic globally, and there are non-urban aspects to our culture (Wild West, theme parks) that are iconic globally. Baby boomer Germans (and I suspect other boomer Western Europeans) are crazy about Wild West stuff, having grown up on Clint Eastwood films and the like. It's just so radically different from anything in Europe.

Also, overseas travel is expensive and time-limited. How many non-Europeans have been to Paris, London and Rome on their first few leisure trips to Europe? I bet almost everyone. How many visited Warsaw, Oslo or Bratislava in those first few trips? I bet no one unless they have family/business connections.

[destroycreate]

As many others have said, here's my breakdown anectodally and having lived in Europe where I often heard presumptions about America.

1. Chicago - biggest issue is that it doesn't have global sex appeal. People abroad think Midwest, Apple Pie, boring. Really a shame because it's an amazing city and is probably the best microcosm of American identity in many ways, but NYC steals its thunder for the aforementioned reasons.
2. Philly/NoLa - Specifically for NoLa, I just haven't met any Europeans who really know anything about it. Plus, most Europeans despise the South based on what they hear/learn from the media.
3. Seattle - it drove me crazy when I lived there and would meet Europeans visiting for work (pretty much never met tourists), that they had no idea it was a vibrant, dense, walkable, and stunningly beautiful major city. Most of them were shocked by the size of the skyline, and how nice/cosmopolotain of a city it was. I couldn't pay my Danish friends to visit me, bc they just thought the PNW was this little podunk place on the map and they wanted to see "Hollywood".
4. San Diego - Surprised nobody has mentioned SD, but I guess it's my hometown so I need to speak up. Virtually nobody outside of the US seems to have heard of it, also drove me crazy living there. People outside NA only go there for Seaworld or Legoland. LA definitely takes up all the space.
5. Probably tie this with Seattle/SD, but Texan major cities really have zero pull for global tourists if we're honest.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by yuriandrade

Foreign trips are expensive and mostly vacations are rather short, so it only makes sense for foreign tourists to focus where the main attractions are. I've been to Europe three times, never to the US and even though I'm a very efficient tourist, squeezing most things in, I'm aware I didn't even scratch the surface.

I, for instance, would love to get to know the Great Lakes region extensively, but would I do it before visiting New York or Los Angeles? Or would I skip the US altogether and head back to Europe on my next vacations?

Exactly, it just makes sense. I lived in Brazil for a little while, so I was able to travel around and see some of the cities and places unknown to foreign tourists. But if I'm visiting for a relatively short time period, I usually stick to Rio and environs.