If majority of eateries/bars/salons etc. went out of business, what would happen?

[dktshb]

Seems like most everybody assumes landlords are the bad guys and not affected when their tenants are not paying rent. Sure there are lots of big corporate landlords but there are plenty (I would presume the majority) of landlords that have mortgages to pay, and building utilities and maintenance expenses on top of trying to make an income.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by dktshb

Seems like most everybody assumes landlords are the bad guys and not affected when their tenants are not paying rent. Sure there are lots of big corporate landlords but there are plenty (I would presume the majority) of landlords that have mortgages to pay, and building utilities and maintenance expenses on top of trying to make an income.

This situation isn't the fault of landlords, but their political lobbying is probably getting in the way of a good policy solution.

[Chef]

Originally Posted by dktshb

Seems like most everybody assumes landlords are the bad guys and not affected when their tenants are not paying rent. Sure there are lots of big corporate landlords but there are plenty (I would presume the majority) of landlords that have mortgages to pay, and building utilities and maintenance expenses on top of trying to make an income.

Right or wrong doesn't enter into the equation. Small businesses are not bad for not paying rent when they have no cash flow. Landlords are not bad for wanting to get paid. Both are prisoners of circumstance.

The challenge for commercial landlords that that there is no upside to evicting a tenant who's business was sound before the pandemic but has no customers now. The landlord is certainly in their rights to evict but they are doing it in a time where there is no demand for commercial property. So either the space is filled with a tenant that isn't paying rent or it is empty with no hope of being filled anytime soon. Neither are good options.

The small business bailout was clearly the most bungled part of the stimulus. If we had kept the small businesses whole the landlords would still be getting paid. Instead we will likely have a ton of small business go under, triggering a wave of commercial landlord bankruptcies that they may lead to the need to bail out the banks again.

[Pedestrian]

The answer to the original question is simple: People would open new ones, once it's safe and legal.

In fact, this could be an ultimate benefit of COVID: Lots of new and novel eateries and drinking establishments.

Such places are a fundamental part of civilization--they've been around since the first "city". They aren't going away, just being reconstitututed with new capital, new prorietorship in some cases and new directions.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by Chef

The small business bailout was clearly the most bungled part of the stimulus. If we had kept the small businesses whole the landlords would still be getting paid. Instead we will likely have a ton of small business go under, triggering a wave of commercial landlord bankruptcies that they may lead to the need to bail out the banks again.

And how would you have done that other than how it was done: Free money to pay salaries?

You can argue (1) There wasn't enough money for every business and the process to get some was too difficult and (2) the program ended prematurely.

But let's face it: Free money is not free. It runs up the debt that has the potential to be a burden if someday interest rates rise. There has to be a question about how much of it the government could create and who should get it. In other words, there are limits. And I think we have come close to them.

So what other way could you have satisfied the interests of both small business tenants and landlords?

As my above post suggests, it could well be that the best solution is a cleansing turnover. Let the businesses fail and support the employees as individuals for a period . . . until new businesses can reopen as they will. I actually predict a restaurant renaissance.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

And how would you have done that other than how it was done: Free money to pay salaries?

You can argue (1) There wasn't enough money for every business and the process to get some was too difficult and (2) the program ended prematurely.

But let's face it: Free money is not free. It runs up the debt that has the potential to be a burden if someday interest rates rise. There has to be a question about how much of it the government could create and who should get it. In other words, there are limits. And I think we have come close to them.

So what other way could you have satisfied the interests of both small business tenants and landlords?

As my above post suggests, it could well be that the best solution is a cleansing turnover. Let the businesses fail and support the employees as individuals for a period . . . until new businesses can reopen as they will. I actually predict a restaurant renaissance.

Letting a ton of businesses collapse would wreak havoc on the financial system. Most likely the cheaper option is to pay them to not go under at once.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Just speaking about Birmingham here, I don't know how things would go in other towns, I'm pretty sure other bars and eateries would just take their place. Downtown is full of construction right now, so sicne the pandemic started the number of bars/eateries really hasn't decreased/increased.

[SLO]

Originally Posted by JManc

I think Covid is shaking off a lot of dead weight. Other than the hotels, airlines and ride-shares, much of these companies were losing market share for years...I mean, the last time I shopped at JC Penney, I was with my grandmother and Chuck E. Cheese; I remember their pizza tasting like cardboard when I was 8. The movie theater industry has been struggling for years with mediocre movies and outrageous ticket/ food prices.

I think while all that is true, at least on the retail side, we've just seen such a massive shift to online shopping that retail was dying. Now it will be combined with a sagging commercial real estate market because companies may shift more employees permanently home and thus need less office space.

A hope could be that the mixed use and live/work model of development takes the place of dying retail centers.

As far as restaurants, bars etc. They will bounce back, the people that lose their positions in the pandemic, for the most part, will not retire they will reinvent.

[Tom In Chicago]

Originally Posted by CaliNative

Question about Chicago pizza. Is it possible to get good thin crust in Chicago, or is deep dish the only reliable choice there?

Just to pile on to this discussion. . . most /Chicago/ pizza is thin crust "tavern style" cut into squares. . . There is also a ton of Chicago "stuffed" or "deep dish" (depending on how you define it) which is what everyone defaults to when they think of Chicago style pizza. . .

But what makes Chicago unique in the pizza world is the fact that you have all that [PLUS] every other style pizza represented here - with the sole exception of upstate New York "tomato pie" which I haven't seen anywhere else. . .

. . .

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by Tom In Chicago

But what makes Chicago unique in the pizza world is the fact that you have all that [PLUS] every other style pizza represented here - with the sole exception of upstate New York "tomato pie" which I haven't seen anywhere else. . .

. . .

Ah so tomato pie really is a thing. I've never had it or even heard of it---until a place called "Tomato Pie" opened in my town some years ago; they opened another location in LA proper too (in the Silverlake neighborhood). I still haven't had a tomato pie though.

https://www.tomatopiepizzajoint.com/

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Tom In Chicago

But what makes Chicago unique in the pizza world is the fact that you have all that [PLUS] every other style pizza represented here - with the sole exception of upstate New York "tomato pie" which I haven't seen anywhere else

Piece Pizza over in wicker park has something on their menu called "tomato pie".

here's their description:

Tomato Pie

This traditional pizza is made with our red sauce, no mozzarella. Topped with garlic, grated Pecorino-Romano and finished with olive oil.

i've never ordered it, and i've never had upstate NY tomato pie either, so i cannot speak to its authenticity or goodness, but if you're a big fan of the style, maybe give it a try the next time you're over by there.

[Tom In Chicago]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Piece Pizza over in wicker park has something on their menu called "tomato pie".

i've never ordered it, and i've never had upstate NY tomato pie either, so i cannot speak to its authenticity or goodness, but if you're a big fan of the style, maybe give it a try the next time you're over by there.

Interesting. . . I like Piece, but nothing in any of the Yelp photos indicates they do anything like the upstate New York tomato pie - I think it's exclusive to Utica and looks more like a Detroit style crust with just tomato (of course) and Romano cheese - but I'll have a look next time I'm there (over by). . .

Maybe JManc knows more about it as he's originally from up that way. . .

. . .

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Tom In Chicago

Interesting. . . I like Piece, but nothing in any of the Yelp photos indicates they do anything like the upstate New York tomato pie - I think it's exclusive to Utica and looks more like a Detroit style crust with just tomato (of course) and Romano cheese - but I'll have a look next time I'm there (over by). . .

yeah, i'm pretty sure it's just their standard new haven style crust and sauce without the mozarella. (Piece only has the one crust style AFAIK).

if upstate NY tomato pie crust is more akin to a detroit style crust, then it's probably not the same thing.