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  #61  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2020, 2:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montréaliste View Post
The Great wall of China is eleven thousand miles long and was started in the 7th Century BC.
Most of the ancient Walls have eroded away and the bulk of extant wall dates from the Qing dynasty (1500 ad ).
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  #62  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2020, 2:21 PM
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The Egyptians win with the Great Pyramid, but for other important ancient buildings I'd also throw out the Romans for their innovations with domed architecture. Namely the Pantheon in Rome and the Hagia Sophia in Istanbul.

Neither building is anywhere near the size of the Great Pyramid, of course. They're also nowhere near as old. The Great Pyramid was already thousands of years old by the time both were built.
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  #63  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2020, 2:54 PM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
It’s not our fault that , in contrast to Rome and Persia , very little architecture exists from ancient (2000 years ago) China , Japan , India etc

You can walk around the ruins of the imperial palace in Rome where Trajan and marcus Antonionius went about their business. Besides it’s architectural significance . The Pantheon is awesome because it’s still standing 1800 years later . Can’t say the same for China , it all got destroyed over time or was built of non durable materials

Also Roman concrete was durable , and the Chinese and Indians never learned the recipe
Nah. You’re just limited by your education that taught you only about Europe. For example, I was lied to in school when I was taught that Romans were so genius to have invented aqueducts. What a crock. Aqueducts were first used by the Indus Valley civilization 2500 years before the Romans. The Romans surely improved on the concept, but it was all derivative.

Sanchi in India was built around the same time that the Ancient Greeks built the Parthenon. Parts of it is still standing. Columns, temples, statues, religious shit. Whoopty doo.

Anyhow, none of it matters. None of this stuff comes close to the Great Pyramids.
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  #64  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2020, 3:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
Most of the ancient Walls have eroded away and the bulk of extant wall dates from the Qing dynasty (1500 ad ).
Everything ends up eroding. There are wind, rain, just weather and time to exhaust it at some point anyway.
I wonder how granite would pass the test of time. Granite is known as a very resistant type of stone, but it probably can't last forever anyway.
So when some bits of stone of old buildings are really damaged, they have to replace them, most often by using the same material and being faithful to the original, of course, so it all remains preserved anyhow.

Take a look at this bell tower for instance.


https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maisons-Alfort

That's a church of my hood, easily the oldest around here. it was built in the 12th century, and it is said that the bell tower would be the very original, like even the stone would be the same.
I'm skeptical about that statement. Some bits of it must have been renovated at some point in the past. I mean I doubt the local limestone would be that resistant.
It is nonetheless original and that Romanesque bell church is remarkably preserved.
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  #65  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2020, 5:35 PM
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I think the argument for the Great Pyramids, and more specifically the pyramid of Khufu is so strong because they've endured for over 5,500 years, and for 3,800 of those years, were also the tallest man-made structures on the planet. That's an incredible legacy that so much subsequent architecture has been built upon, both directly and indirectly. While seemingly primitive by our standards, they still inspire so much awe, and I think that quality alone can be an argument on why they are so important, and possibly 'THE most important building/s ever constructed', not to mention other more tangible metrics that help further the argument for their singular importance.
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  #66  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2020, 4:15 AM
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Originally Posted by CaliNative View Post
The Great Wall of China was a pretty spectacular project for its day, but as always the migrants, Mongols in this case, got in anyway and even were running China after a few years. Walls are permeable.
It's actually a bit of a myth that the wall failed, it withstood the Mongol / Steppe empires for 2,700 years and every time it was 'breached' was when the dynasty was stagnating/ collapsing from within and the generals bribed/ defecting, letting the Steppe armies (Mongols, Jurchens and Manchurians) through the passes.

Kublai Khan was the only one who managed to succesfully breach it (after 5 years planning) and maintain an incursion, by capturing three fortresses and employing a defecting Chinese army (the Jin Dynasty); it took them 60 years to conquest China, after which the Mongol (Yuan) Dynasty let the wall go to rot as of course there was no longer a need to defend the territory, from themselves. After their own fall 50 years later, the conquering Ming rebuilt the present incarnation of the wall you see today, which was later bribed to get past, and technically never 'fell'.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ming_G...ll_of_the_Ming

https://www.travelchinaguide.com/chi...nghis-khan.htm


Fun fact, the wall was originally built as China's cavalries were weak compared to the Steppe armies, due to a regional lack of potassium in the soil that normally makes horses stronger. This is also a reason why the Chinese empire never extended ever westward, and why gunpowder rose to the fore as a weapon (though it became so dangerous in society they declared a moratorium. However, once the Mongols got their hands on it... the rest is history. City destroyers the world over).

Beijing


https://brewminate.com

Baghdad (world's largest city, where every inhabitant -man, woman, child, cat and dog was beheaded and a giant pyramid made of their skulls)


https://kurdistantribune.com


Moscow -the tsar and patriarch were later rolled into a carpet and laid under a celebration tent, then slowly crushed by the partygoers.




Kiev


https://www.slideshare.net/lodgek/ea...-from-the-east


Japan (considered the world's first mechanised, modern warfare in 1270 using Chinese tech and armies, but ultimately a failed invasion and now the largest naval graveyard for 4,000 ships and 140,000 men. The typhoons that scuppered the fleets each time were known as the kamikaze -divine wind)



All that's left of Merv's city walls, a city razed in Turkmenistan (rival to Baghdad as world's largest), and possible site of historys worst single massacre, of 700,000 inhabitants.


https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/00017...ormat&fit=max&


3,800 temples (out of 4,500) remain as ruins of the capital of Bagan, Myanmar -once covered in gold


https://www.flickr.com/photos/arembl/12849689915/

Last edited by muppet; Sep 28, 2020 at 6:06 AM.
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  #67  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2020, 4:54 AM
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Welcome home! The cave was the one that started them all.
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  #68  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2020, 5:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
Nah. You’re just limited by your education that taught you only about Europe. For example, I was lied to in school when I was taught that Romans were so genius to have invented aqueducts. What a crock. Aqueducts were first used by the Indus Valley civilization 2500 years before the Romans. The Romans surely improved on the concept, but it was all derivative.

Sanchi in India was built around the same time that the Ancient Greeks built the Parthenon. Parts of it is still standing. Columns, temples, statues, religious shit. Whoopty doo.

Anyhow, none of it matters. None of this stuff comes close to the Great Pyramids.
Besides, didn't the Romans use mostly Greek slaves, freedmen and citizens to do the real inventing & engineering? Without the Greeks, what would the Roman Empire have been? Roman civilization is mostly derivative of Hellenistic. Greek civilization owes a debt to Egyptians and Phoenicians and also the Minoans, who may or may not have been Greeks. Herodotus told us so. And everyone owes a debt to the Sumerians, who invented modern western civilization.

Last edited by CaliNative; Sep 28, 2020 at 5:44 AM.
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  #69  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2020, 5:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
Nah. You’re just limited by your education that taught you only about Europe. For example, I was lied to in school when I was taught that Romans were so genius to have invented aqueducts. What a crock. Aqueducts were first used by the Indus Valley civilization 2500 years before the Romans. The Romans surely improved on the concept, but it was all derivative.

Sanchi in India was built around the same time that the Ancient Greeks built the Parthenon. Parts of it is still standing. Columns, temples, statues, religious shit. Whoopty doo.

Anyhow, none of it matters. None of this stuff comes close to the Great Pyramids.
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppet View Post
It's actually a bit of a myth that the wall failed, it withstood the Mongol / Steppe empires for 2,700 years and every time it was 'breached' was when the dynasty was stagnating/ collapsing from within and the generals bribed/ defecting, letting the Steppe armies (Mongols, Jurchens and Manchurians) through the passes.

Kublai Khan was the only one who managed to succesfully breach it (after 5 years planning) and maintain an incursion, by capturing three fortresses and employing a defecting Chinese army (the Jin Dynasty); it took them 60 years to conquest China, after which the Mongol (Yuan) Dynasty let the wall go to rot as of course there was no longer a need to defend the territory, from themselves. After their own fall 50 years later, the conquering Ming rebuilt the present incarnation of the wall you see today, which was later bribed to get past, and technically never 'fell'.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ming_G...ll_of_the_Ming

https://www.travelchinaguide.com/chi...nghis-khan.htm


Fun fact, the wall was originally built as China's cavalries were weak compared to the Steppe armies, due to a regional lack of potassium in the soil that normally makes horses stronger. This is also a reason why the Chinese empire never extended ever westward, and why gunpowder rose to the fore as a weapon (though it became so dangerous in society they declared a moratorium. However, once the Mongols got their hands on it... the rest is history. City destroyers the world over).

Beijing


https://brewminate.com

Baghdad (world's largest city, where every inhabitant -man, woman, child, cat and dog was beheaded and a giant pyramid made of their skulls)


https://kurdistantribune.com


Moscow -the tsar and patriarch were later rolled into a carpet and laid under a celebration tent, then slowly crushed by the partygoers.




Kiev


https://www.slideshare.net/lodgek/ea...-from-the-east


Japan (considered the world's first mechanised, modern warfare in 1270 using Chinese tech and armies, but ultimately a failed invasion and now the largest naval graveyard for 4,000 ships and 140,000 men. The typhoons that scuppered the fleets each time are known as the kamikaze -divine wind)



All that's left of Merv's city walls, a city razed in Turkmenistan (rival to Baghdad as world's largest), and possible site of historys worst single massacre, of 700,000 inhabitants.


https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/00017...ormat&fit=max&


3,800 temples (out of 4,500) remain as ruins of the capital of Bagan, Myanmar -once covered in gold


https://www.flickr.com/photos/arembl/12849689915/
Interesting. In the 4th photo, is that some kind of tank-like vehicle pulled by oxen? I agree, the pyramids are the greatest structures of all. They will probably be still there in 10,000 years. Do you agree with the theory that the Sphinx might be considerably older than the pyramids, maybe many hundreds or thousands of years older?
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  #70  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2020, 5:47 AM
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Nope it's a Mongolian felt yurt, probably the General's. Someone high up who never warrants his abode be taken down.

Last edited by muppet; Sep 28, 2020 at 6:03 AM.
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  #71  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2020, 5:53 AM
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This is the remains of Shangdu (Xanadu) near Beijing, the old Mongol capital they relocated into China. At it's heart was the Khan's great Pleasure Dome, a palace like a great luxurious yurt filled with hareems, it's sides (the inner court pictured) are 1,800 ft wide.



The Mongol yurt is said to have later given rise to the distinctive Mughal (read: Mongol, of which the Mughals were the ancestors of) onion domes of India aswell as Russia:





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  #72  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2020, 5:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
The Pantheon in Rome. No other building was as influential re. architecture , design and construction techniques, at least in the West.

But not among the most iconic buildings, obviously.
This was also my gut reaction.
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  #73  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2020, 2:09 PM
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the most significant work of architecture is the first house ever built. that is where humanity first said, "I'm not going to live like an animal. I'm going to make my own shelter from the elements, my own protection from predators, and make something better than what I can find in nature." it was among the first acts of human identity and establishment. everything else proceeded from there - places of worship, places of education, places of work - all came from that first act of identifying humanity as a species that would not be subject to the destructive forces of nature, and had its own agenda for development.
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  #74  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2020, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
Isn't "important" entirely subjective?

And let's see how many western-centric examples we'll get...
Why on Earth would a Western-centric forum NOT list a Western building when this is subjective, by your own words?

Post some building in Asia or South America...or stop bitching lol
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  #75  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2020, 2:32 AM
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Just go in order in time. Tallest or biggest buildings in the world. That's my list
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  #76  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2020, 3:11 AM
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Time to break it down into sub-sets (and the engineering counts of course).


Link

Dry since 1989


Link
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  #77  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2020, 1:57 PM
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I'm going with the wigman. And fuck the teepee!

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  #78  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2020, 4:00 PM
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The Tower of Babel, a building so imposing that God himself had to come down and destroy it, a forerunner of all tall buildings and thought of building tall.
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  #79  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2020, 10:49 PM
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The Tower of Babel, a building so imposing that God himself had to come down and destroy it, a forerunner of all tall buildings and thought of building tall.
Real buildings only please
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  #80  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2020, 11:17 PM
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Monumental ruins in Sumer/Babylon that has the earliest preserved records of written language on artifacts, stones and other objects dating from 8000 years ago is my first vote. Ur, Iraq was the largest settlements of the known world at one point and used to be on the sea or at least a marshy wetland before sea levels dropped by about 8 feet.
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