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  #21  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2020, 3:48 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proghousehead View Post
Grid is only on east side below 14th. The west village is maze like in places and has nothing to do with 1811.
That's not entirely correct. Washington Square Park is the heart of the West Village and the area around it is based on the 1811 plan. Only west of Sixth Avenue does the grid get skewed a bit, probably because it was developed pre-1811. But it's obvious that they tried to reconcile that section of the West Village with the layout east of Sixth Avenue.

WSP is the origin of Fifth Avenue, which becomes the east/west boundary in Manhattan. Below WSP, Broadway is the east/west boundary above Houston, and there is no east/west designation below Houston.
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  #22  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2020, 8:04 PM
proghousehead proghousehead is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
That's not entirely correct. Washington Square Park is the heart of the West Village and the area around it is based on the 1811 plan. Only west of Sixth Avenue does the grid get skewed a bit, probably because it was developed pre-1811. But it's obvious that they tried to reconcile that section of the West Village with the layout east of Sixth Avenue.

WSP is the origin of Fifth Avenue, which becomes the east/west boundary in Manhattan. Below WSP, Broadway is the east/west boundary above Houston, and there is no east/west designation below Houston.
By West Village I am referring to west of 6th Avenue. I do not think anyone refers to WSP as the “west village”. I would know. I went to NYU and have lived in the area since 1997.

Weird thing you keep arguing man. Yeah, Gay Street is really part of the 1811 grid.
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  #23  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2020, 3:15 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Manhattan's grid starts at Houston St., not 14th St.

But this reminds me... A large section of Manhattan below Houston is actually laid out as the OP suggests. Mostly between Houston and Canal St. or Grand St.

I suspect that sunlight was a huge reason for the grid being laid out with long blocks east/west instead of north/south.

yep sorta.

technically -- to get right down to it per wiki:

The baseline of the Commissioner's remit was set at Houston Street – "North Street" at the time – "Art Street", which was located approximately where Washington Square North is today, and "Greenwich Lane", now Greenwich Street. Greenwich Village, then independent of New York City, and the current West Village were not part of the area the Commission was to deal with.

Previously, city commissioners gave the marching orders for surveyors in 1807:

They were given 4 years to have the island surveyed, and then to produce a map showing the placement of future streets. There were few specifications given to them about those streets, except that streets were to be at least 50 feet (15 m) wide, while "leading streets" and "great avenues" were to be at least 60 feet (18 m) wide.
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  #24  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2020, 3:35 PM
proghousehead proghousehead is offline
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top down views of Manhattan's streetscape:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ru...963223!5m1!1e4

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ru...963223!5m1!1e4

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ru...963223!5m1!1e4

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ru...963223!5m1!1e4

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ru...963223!5m1!1e4

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ru...963223!5m1!1e4

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ru...963223!5m1!1e4

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ru...963223!5m1!1e4

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ru...963223!5m1!1e4

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ru...963223!5m1!1e4

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7776.../data=!5m1!1e4

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7785.../data=!5m1!1e4

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8163.../data=!5m1!1e4

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8287.../data=!5m1!1e4

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8358.../data=!5m1!1e4

https://www.google.com/maps/place/40...352179!5m1!1e4

https://www.google.com/maps/place/40...352179!5m1!1e4



BONUS: Queens and the Bronx


https://www.google.com/maps/place/40...352179!5m1!1e4

https://www.google.com/maps/place/40...352179!5m1!1e4

https://www.google.com/maps/place/40...352179!5m1!1e4

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8380.../data=!5m1!1e4

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7096.../data=!5m1!1e4

As you can see, not all of NYC, let alone Manhattan - is on a rigid grid. Plenty of parts of the city are highly dense and urban and laid out like a European City.
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  #25  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2020, 4:38 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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speaking of noteworthy streets — stuyvesant street in the ev is one of the oldest streets in town. its set on a diagonal to the grid, but is actually one of the few that has a true east-west orientation. the rest are offset by about 29 degrees.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuyvesant_Street
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  #26  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2020, 4:41 PM
mhays mhays is offline
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Here's a topic: The extreme length of Manhattan blocks makes the avenues much busier with pedestrians, because they're concentrated onto fewer avenues.

If there were twice as many avenues, movement N-S would be easier, but both pedestrians and retail would be more dispersed vs. concentrated. The city wouldn't feel as big.

On the plus side, in addition to the easier movement for pedestrians, the avenues wouldn't need to be insanely wide if there were more of them.
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  #27  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2020, 4:56 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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ha well im not sure more streets would have been any more pleasant with more cars and probably forcing triple the gridlock for decades since cars came on the scene.

i’d rather less streets for cars altogether.

that said, in the new covid era, it is all about taking out cars and street lanes again. i just read 10k parking spaces are now gone due to streeteries. so thats a new crack at cutting down on cars. someday i hope they make broadway all for pedestrians up to columbia at least.
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  #28  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2020, 5:31 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays View Post
Here's a topic: The extreme length of Manhattan blocks makes the avenues much busier with pedestrians, because they're concentrated onto fewer avenues.

If there were twice as many avenues, movement N-S would be easier, but both pedestrians and retail would be more dispersed vs. concentrated. The city wouldn't feel as big.

On the plus side, in addition to the easier movement for pedestrians, the avenues wouldn't need to be insanely wide if there were more of them.
I'm not sure about the bolded part. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, SoHo is actually laid out like this already (long blocks n/s, short e/w), and it is one of the densest retail areas in the city. Broadway between Houston and Spring St is one of the most pedestrian congested stretches in the entire city.
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  #29  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2020, 5:40 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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The East Side of Midtown has much shorter distances between the avenues than the West Side, but if anything is more congested, with more pedestrians and more retail, so I'm not sure if this theory holds. There are likely other contributing factors besides avenue spacing.
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  #30  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2020, 6:03 PM
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MolsonExport MolsonExport is offline
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Maybe because it isn't the way it isn't?
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  #31  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2020, 6:45 PM
mhays mhays is offline
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I wouldn't call East Midtown lively by Manhattan standards. Even the avenues are pretty light on retail.

In any case, my point is about the random typical parts of Manhattan. Not everything can be a Midtown, or a center.
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  #32  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2020, 7:33 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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^ no i dk about that. its just different than fifth avenue. lex and third have plenty of shopping, but its more for locals. yet there are things like the fancy antiques around the aerial tram and of course bloomingdales. have you ever been there? the bloomies area is often a mob scene after work during non-covid times.

also, i know we all use these terms, but just like west midtown, aka the hells kitchen neighborhood historically, there really isnt an east midtown. past third ave all that becomes more residential neighborhoods like turtle bay and sutton place or to the southern end of it grand central, consulates and the un. certainly the gc area is quite lively.
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  #33  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2020, 7:47 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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East Midtown probably has a higher concentration of retail and pedestrian activity than any other geography in the western hemisphere. And it likely has few rivals globally.

Anyways, while NYC is heavily gridded in the core, excepting downtown, much of the Bronx and Queens, especially, are non-gridded.

Much of Queens has this look:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/10...!4d-73.8300527

Random streets, total mishmash of buildings. Weird lanes, quasi-alleys, older SFHs next to newer highrises.
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  #34  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2020, 11:39 PM
mhays mhays is offline
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It's a big area. I've stayed in hotels around 47th & Lex a couple times and found the broader area quiet and boring by Manhattan standards.
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  #35  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2020, 2:43 AM
proghousehead proghousehead is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
East Midtown probably has a higher concentration of retail and pedestrian activity than any other geography in the western hemisphere. And it likely has few rivals globally.

Anyways, while NYC is heavily gridded in the core, excepting downtown, much of the Bronx and Queens, especially, are non-gridded.

Much of Queens has this look:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/10...!4d-73.8300527

Random streets, total mishmash of buildings. Weird lanes, quasi-alleys, older SFHs next to newer highrises.
That Queens street view is awesome. That whole Kew Gardens/Forest Hills/ Briarwood area has such an interesting streetscape. Like a London suburb aesthetically. Great mix of urban and hyper dense and walkable suburbia. Perfect medium between the two.
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  #36  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2020, 7:37 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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Originally Posted by mhays View Post
It's a big area. I've stayed in hotels around 47th & Lex a couple times and found the broader area quiet and boring by Manhattan standards.
actually there are quite a few things for tourists to do within just a few blocks of that intersection, which also includes experiencing grand central, thee busiest area in nyc. it is midtown manhattan standards, so i am not sure what you are looking for that isnt as boring or quiet as any of that.
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