PHILADELPHIA-CAMDEN-WILMINGTON-ATLANTIC CITY-READING | Metro Development Thread

[ePlanningPhila]

Originally Posted by jonesrmj

Why would it not be fair to compare Tyson's Corner to Wilmington? Yes Wilmington has a larger population than Tysons, but Wilmington is also having the worst of development out of every city in the Philly Metro (Including King of Prussia, etc). The thing that I don't understand is since Wilmington was founded before Philly, was a major fort back then, and was closer to the ocean and also in the same area, how did Philly out compete Wilmington?

Can we start a Wilmington thread? Ill be honest. These constant generalized questions on the metro thread is getting old. To be blunt, some of your questions are very generalized, and not focused on development. You constantly say the same things over and over again. To quickly answer your questions. Tyson's Corner is barely 40 years old. Most development is less than 20. Therefore it is a totally different animal. Wilmington is an old city. Meaning they are two totally different animals, that present different opportunities and constraints. I will not go into details, because they should be quite self evident.


In regards to settlement. The 'Delaware Valley' was first settled by dutch and swedes, which they were in constant battle over the claimed areas in the first decades of settlement. The English then conquered the colony. Therefore there was not much trade or settlement prior to 1660/1670s. Philadelphia was settled by William Penn in 1680s, he was a very well to do Quaker from England. The king of England was actually indebted to his family. Therefore he granted what would be known as Pennsylvania to Penn, which was the largest land grant ever to one person in history. Penn and his connections with London and trade is what landed Philadelphia on the map and drew to its growth. Also Pennsylvania was a large area with many resources which yielded the immense growth even more rapidly. It goes in more detail than that, but that is the general reason. But TBH these constant questions about Wilmington are redundant and do not pertain to new development which is what this forum is all about.

[jonesrmj]

Originally Posted by ePlanningPhila

Can we start a Wilmington thread? Ill be honest. These constant generalized questions on the metro thread is getting old. To be blunt, some of your questions are very generalized, and not focused on development. You constantly say the same things over and over again. To quickly answer your questions...

...But TBH these constant questions about Wilmington are redundant and do not pertain to new development which is what this forum is all about.

Well then maybe I should just delete my account and unsubscribe from this forum because I want to be able to talk about my city more then just the crap development it's getting. If you look at Wilmington development, it's the same crap low-rise apartment at every potential lot over and over. How is that exciting because it's boring and not improving anything (except maybe the population - by like 0.00000000008%)? Wilmington is going through many issues that I would like to address! And FYI, I say these things a bunch of times because people don't take any time to acknowledge my point, and just attack me because I'm criticizing my own city. Maybe I should just leave because I'm ruining it for the people who only hear what they want to hear.

[ePlanningPhila]

Originally Posted by jonesrmj

Well then maybe I should just delete my account and unsubscribe from this forum because I want to be able to talk about my city more then just the crap development it's getting. If you look at Wilmington development, it's the same crap low-rise apartment at every potential lot over and over. How is that exciting because it's boring and not improving anything (except maybe the population - by like 0.00000000008%)? Wilmington is going through many issues that I would like to address! And FYI, I say these things a bunch of times because people don't take any time to acknowledge my point, and just attack me because I'm criticizing my own city. Maybe I should just leave because I'm ruining it for the people who only hear what they want to hear.

You are very repetitive and basically say the same things over and over again, even after other posters try to answer your questions. It seems no matter what anyone says you constantly repeat the same thing. Progress is step by step. Wilmington has pros and cons. Are you in school? From your tone I take it you are on the younger side, and it seems like you would benefit from some type of city planning/urban studies coursework. It just gets old because your contribution to the forum is constantly repetitive. And while Wilmington is considered part of the Philadelphia Metro, it is not the only place and I rather just put all Wilmington items in its own thread so I do not have to read about it anymore to be frank.

[jslice]

Originally Posted by ePlanningPhila

You are very repetitive and basically say the same things over and over again, even after other posters try to answer your questions. It seems no matter what anyone says you constantly repeat the same thing. Progress is step by step. Wilmington has pros and cons. Are you in school? From your tone I take it you are on the younger side, and it seems like you would benefit from some type of city planning/urban studies coursework. It just gets old because your contribution to the forum is constantly repetitive. And while Wilmington is considered part of the Philadelphia Metro, it is not the only place and I rather just put all Wilmington items in its own thread so I do not have to read about it anymore to be frank.

don't kick us all out because of jones.

[Milksteak]

Originally Posted by jonesrmj

Well then maybe I should just delete my account and unsubscribe from this forum because I want to be able to talk about my city more then just the crap development it's getting. If you look at Wilmington development, it's the same crap low-rise apartment at every potential lot over and over. How is that exciting because it's boring and not improving anything (except maybe the population - by like 0.00000000008%)? Wilmington is going through many issues that I would like to address! And FYI, I say these things a bunch of times because people don't take any time to acknowledge my point, and just attack me because I'm criticizing my own city. Maybe I should just leave because I'm ruining it for the people who only hear what they want to hear.

Serious question...do you attend any neighborhood associations/development meetings within Wilmington? Do you know how many apartments are going up in my town? None. Office buildings? Zero. Shit, retail?? Notta! What do I do? I keep my finger on the pulse of what is going on in my surrounding area, and of course our economic driver, Philly. I've met with the mayor in my town, written folks in the redevelopment authority....try to understand from the people on the ground what is happening and what I can do to assist. You can't ask things like "why does Tyson's Corner get this, but we don't?" That is a different town in a different region with completely different driving factors behind its growth. You know what else Wilmington isn't? Trenton NJ, hemorrhaging population since 1950. It almost seems like any success in any other mid-sized city in the US is a sign of Wilmington's failure to you.

By the way, I've seen some of the development in Wilmington...I would kill for some projects like that locally.

[El Duderino]

jones, your passion for your city is great. however, expecting skyscrapers when there isn’t demand and then complaining about it is neither beneficial nor fun, nor something that leads to the informed discourse that makes this board great. we all agree that wilmington is going through growing pains due to many of the issues you have correctly pointed out. but to whine that philly (and others) gets skyscrapers while wilmington gets smart, appropriately-scaled development is frankly annoying.

we all understand you are frustrated; maybe bring up this frustration again once a quarter as opposed to once a week and you’ll get less backlash.

in the meantime: get involved locally! Milksteak was dead-on in saying there are ways to make an impact in a real way. channel all of your energy in these ways and you’ll be a part of the change you want to see.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by Capsule F

Because population has nothing to do with it. For one, its a DC suburb and there is no shortage of government and related business in the area. That area will continue to be one of the most recession proof and will survive the culling of MSAs.

It would be more fair to compare Tyson's Corner to King of Prussia, and King of Prussia is doing pretty well.

Wilmington unfortunately has had a lot of bad luck and it is upsetting. For whatever reason it no longer has the strong allure of a niche area to set up shop. Perhaps it was too reliant on DuPont. Also the board and leadership of DuPont messed up. There is absolutely no reason that it shouldn't have had the success of DOW in the long run. Wilmington has suffered from being too close to DC and Philadelphia, much like Philadelphia has suffered from being too close to DC and NYC.

However I see no reason that motivated leadership can't reinvent the city again. It needs to once again be known for something, whether its tax benefits or niche industries. It needs to approach large banks and convince them of what they once knew about doing business there, perhaps pharmaceuticals too. I love Delaware and our family shore house is in Bethany. Southern shore points are a strong spot for Delaware, and its tax climate is pretty fantastic. I believe people just don't know about how easy it is to live, vacation, and work there. The good news is that the city still looks impressive for its size and has tons of potential.

Tyson's Corner is a quintessential edge city and nothing to aspire to. But Wilmington is not situated like that and could not if it wanted to. I think Wilmington is doing it right at the moment. It went astray in the past through over-reliance on specific employers and industries. And letting its office buildings become obsolete. The steps it is now taking to reinvigorate the city and make it a place people live and want to live will foster more jobs and a more diverse economy in time. There's nothing it can do to immediately create demand for skyscrapers or convince largescale employers to abandon office parks.

[Mappy]

NJ DEP Commits $25M to Transform Former Camden Landfill Into Waterfront Park

"The project will remediate an old municipal dump, connecting the Cramer Hill neighborhood to the Cooper and Delaware Rivers for the first time in 70 years."

http://www.njpen.com/nj-dep-commits-...terfront-park/

[jonesrmj]

Will this prove some of you wrong that say I do nothing to contribute to the city? Or that I care about it????

[IMG]Email to Wilmington Airport to help Attract Airlines. by jonesrmj, on Flickr[/IMG]

[El Duderino]

dude, no one said you do nothing and no one said you don’t care about the city. just chill with the “but whyyyyy not us?” and no one will have an issue. also, i’d be careful in comparing wilmington’s airport to those that serve the biggest metro area in north america; those types of comparisons are only feeding into your perceived lack of progress.

[jsbrook]

Great project. Where is this in relation to the American Water headquarters and other work going on around that?

Originally Posted by Mappy

NJ DEP Commits $25M to Transform Former Camden Landfill Into Waterfront Park

"The project will remediate an old municipal dump, connecting the Cramer Hill neighborhood to the Cooper and Delaware Rivers for the first time in 70 years."

http://www.njpen.com/nj-dep-commits-...terfront-park/

[ePlanningPhila]

Originally Posted by jonesrmj

Will this prove some of you wrong that say I do nothing to contribute to the city? Or that I care about it????

[IMG]Email to Wilmington Airport to help Attract Airlines. by jonesrmj, on Flickr[/IMG]

To be honest, no one cares. Its cool to be passionate about your city man. It appears to me you are on the younger side and still have quite a bit to grasp on economics, bizdevelopment, planning, etc. As the other posters commented, just cool it on the repetitive Wilmington is suffering posts, its getting really old to read. Wilmington airport could be great for Allegiant. Philadelphia Intl is undergoing a Billion dollar investment and is the trans Atlantic hub for American so I do not see Wilmington becoming a major international airport for this region on any level. Again its cool you have a passion. If I were you I would start a Wilmington Urban Blog. I think it would be a more healthy outlet to talk about Wilmington issues on your very own blog than this development forum. I am sure you will attract blog followers.

[jonesrmj]

Originally Posted by El Duderino

dude, no one said you do nothing and no one said you don’t care about the city. just chill with the “but whyyyyy not us?” and no one will have an issue. also, i’d be careful in comparing wilmington’s airport to those that serve the biggest metro area in north america; those types of comparisons are only feeding into your perceived lack of progress.

Now yes, I have said "Why not Wilmington" a lot of times, but people seem more annoyed at the fact that I'm annoyed with the development we are getting and all the trouble Wilmington has been having with offices (Millsteak, we are not getting offices in Wilmington, in fact, we are loosing them). Am I not allowed to express how I feel about the city, and does anybody realize that what I have been saying is something Wilmington needs to work on?

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by jonesrmj

Now yes, I have said "Why not Wilmington" a lot of times, but people seem more annoyed at the fact that I'm annoyed with the development we are getting and all the trouble Wilmington has been having with offices (Millsteak, we are not getting offices in Wilmington, in fact, we are loosing them). Am I not allowed to express how I feel about the city, and does anybody realize that what I have been saying is something Wilmington needs to work on?

It's a bit annoying that you have not proposed any "superior" development or sustainable ways for achieving the same in Wilmington and that your understanding of what Wilmington can and should be doing to move forward seems simplistic and resistant to change or education. But carry on...

[Nova08]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Great project. Where is this in relation to the American Water headquarters and other work going on around that?

No, not really close to any ongoing work. This is ~8 blocks north of the BF bridge and on the north side of where the Cooper River meets the Delaware

[ePlanningPhila]

Originally Posted by jonesrmj

Now yes, I have said "Why not Wilmington" a lot of times, but people seem more annoyed at the fact that I'm annoyed with the development we are getting and all the trouble Wilmington has been having with offices (Millsteak, we are not getting offices in Wilmington, in fact, we are loosing them). Am I not allowed to express how I feel about the city, and does anybody realize that what I have been saying is something Wilmington needs to work on?

Dude please start a blog and talk about these topics on your own personal blog. Because Ill be honest it is very annoying to bring it to this forum every other day. Thanks. You personally will get FAR more out of starting your own blog than this forum. Also you will engage with people on your personal blog that want to discuss those topics. For the most part they have nothing to do with this Metro Development thread to be frank. Just brand it Wilmington 'something' and write once a week about a topic. I am sure you will slowly get a following of like minded people. But I think the consensus by most on this forum is your outlook and constant posts are getting very old to read.

[Knight Hospitaller]

My "ignore" list only works if people quit responding to the repetitive posts. :-/ I'll second the motion for Wilmington to have its own thread. It's part of our Metro area, but Delaware is really its own thing perception wise.

[jonesrmj]

Originally Posted by ePlanningPhila

Dude please start a blog and talk about these topics on your own personal blog. Because Ill be honest it is very annoying to bring it to this forum every other day. Thanks. You personally will get FAR more out of starting your own blog than this forum. Also you will engage with people on your personal blog that want to discuss those topics. For the most part they have nothing to do with this Metro Development thread to be frank. Just brand it Wilmington 'something' and write once a week about a topic. I am sure you will slowly get a following of like minded people. But I think the consensus by most on this forum is your outlook and constant posts are getting very old to read.

Fair Enough. I'll stop posting about the same thing too much from now on, but will people at least hear my point before attacking me that I'm pointing out some cons that need to be addressed?

[ePlanningPhila]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

My "ignore" list only works if people quit responding to the repetitive posts. :-/ I'll second the motion for Wilmington to have its own thread. It's part of our Metro area, but Delaware is really its own thing perception wise.

I do not think Wilmington must have it's own thread, I honestly think it fits nicely within the metro thread. I think jonesmjr is very passionate about topics that fit better on a blog, and he seems to understand that after some discussion. I am guessing he is on the younger side and needs an outlet to grow his passion which I advised a blog would work better than this forum and it seems he has agreed I like hearing about the Wilmington projects TBH. We live in a unique region since there are 3 separate states and a bit of separation in identity within each. But overall I think it is important to maintain the cohesion of a region and not separate.

[jjv007]

Damn y'all need to stop giving people so much heat. jonesrmj could probably tone it down a bit but no need to lambast him for his posts. He's expressing his thoughts on a forum that's meant for that.