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  #81  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2019, 3:52 PM
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CrestedSaguaro CrestedSaguaro is online now
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Originally Posted by azliam View Post
Since we're speaking about flying, let me just say that I believe Phoenix continues to fly so much under the radar even still with all of the growth that has occurred. Even though our MSA is nearly at 5 million, we're still not good enough for an MSL expansion soccer team. Not good enough for more TATL/TPAC international service. Yet other smaller cities continue to receive both. I thought Sky Harbor used an incentives program to entice other carriers to launch new routes to and from Phoenix, but it appears other cities are capturing those routes more quickly.

Is the problem really due to our location and proximity to other cities, lack of F500 companies, or is it and outdated image that people still have of Phoenix - or all of the above? Does the city need to market itself differently?

After all, there are still quite a lot of people out there who still believe it's hot all year round in Phoenix, that we're still primarily just a snowbird haven, that we haven't mitigated our water issues, that we sprawl more than any other metro area, etc. And others seem to gloss over the fact that we continue to have very high numerical population growth, job growth, diversified economy, and despite our lackluster downtown (in comparison to other places) that we have made serious strides both there and in Tempe. When will the masses start to acknowledge all of the positive change in Phoenix? Will this take another generation or two to accomplish?
Pretty much all of the above. I think the problem is that up till about 20 years ago, that's what Phoenix pretty much was. It's hard to change an outsiders' perception for a city to grow as much as Phoenix has in this short of a time-span. Especially if they only see pictures/videos of sprawl in the media. Anyone that's been here in 15+ years will still think that's what it was. Also, Phoenix needs to just get more recognition in the media. A hit movie or 2 based in Phoenix would help. As would another World Series or Suns championship season. The Superbowl could've helped a few years ago, but the problem is most of the city shots were mostly Glendale and sprawl. I don't remember a lot of urban scenes during the super bowl. A couple skyline shots, but nothing impressive. Sadly, this is what people see and then believe that's all there is.

This is where a big skyline could change that perception. A great looking skyline is the first thing that media (movies, commercials, sports) tend to show. The bigger the skyline, the bigger the perception of the city. This is why we need those tall buildings. I think we are starting to get there, especially with the nearly dozen or so towers in construction or about to go up. Get a skyline worthy of movies, shows, commercials, advertisements and the perception of Phoenix actually being a big city will change.

On a side note, the screen at AZ Center is now advertising the fact that Phoenix is the 5th largest city. We need lots more of that.
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  #82  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2019, 4:33 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by azliam View Post
Thanks for posting.

Limited international service?
Sadly true

Outdated Photo of Downtown?
Of course: https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-bes...19-11573658675
Have you tried to get up to date photos of downtown or Tempe?

Because the skylines arent good people dont take a bunch of pictures so they are all outdated
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  #83  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2019, 4:36 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by azliam View Post
Since we're speaking about flying, let me just say that I believe Phoenix continues to fly so much under the radar even still with all of the growth that has occurred. Even though our MSA is nearly at 5 million, we're still not good enough for an MSL expansion soccer team. Not good enough for more TATL/TPAC international service. Yet other smaller cities continue to receive both. I thought Sky Harbor used an incentives program to entice other carriers to launch new routes to and from Phoenix, but it appears other cities are capturing those routes more quickly.

Is the problem really due to our location and proximity to other cities, lack of F500 companies, or is it and outdated image that people still have of Phoenix - or all of the above? Does the city need to market itself differently?

After all, there are still quite a lot of people out there who still believe it's hot all year round in Phoenix, that we're still primarily just a snowbird haven, that we haven't mitigated our water issues, that we sprawl more than any other metro area, etc. And others seem to gloss over the fact that we continue to have very high numerical population growth, job growth, diversified economy, and despite our lackluster downtown (in comparison to other places) that we have made serious strides both there and in Tempe. When will the masses start to acknowledge all of the positive change in Phoenix? Will this take another generation or two to accomplish?
It really hasn't had a cultural break out like, for example, Austin had 10 years ago or say Nashville is getting now.

As I said before even most of our residents have no concept of the city because they moved here to live in their isolated suburban bliss.

My own parents have lived deep in Ahwatukke for 25 years they dont know this city but could tell you precise locations of neighborhood bars in Chicago 30 years ago. I just had a friend of mine who grew up here but has spent his whole life in Chandler/Gilbert

He arrived at my place and literally said "I have never been over here in my life" Me: "Yeah its like there is an actual city here"

And as biggus I think pointed out before, this isnt totally uncommon in a large metro I think its particularly bad here especially when you still hear people be like "Oh well X or Y is a "real City"" I have been all over the world there is nothing un-city like about Phoenix unless you think a "real City" has to be Manhattan, or Hong Kong
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  #84  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2019, 7:56 PM
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There's not nearly enough business travel or moneyed, cultural citizens for international travel, and I suspect its proximity to LAX makes carriers not bother.

Give it a while for things like Novus to build out. The explosion of North Tempe, the addition of Creighton, downtown's residential boom, etc has been unprecedented. You're looking at an almost-generational shift from the Phoenix of yore that only happened in a few years, and it's going to take time for the rest of the world to catch up.
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  #85  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2019, 8:26 PM
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What does it take for an airport to add an international flight?

By: Ben Norman; Chamber Business News, Aug. 28, 2019

https://chamberbusinessnews.com/2019...q_VqbzXXnFNKlM

Phoenix gets unbearably hot in the summer – that’s not news to anyone who has spent more than a week in the Valley of the Sun between June and September. With sweltering, 110-degree temperatures, people often look to out-of-state destinations for a hiatus from the heat. In fact, many leisure travelers eye destinations not just outside the state, but out of the country, as well.

The demand for global travel isn’t exclusive to Arizonans, either. According to the International Air Transportation Association, the percentage of global air traffic has increased every year since 2013. This year alone, global traffic increased by 4.3 percent in North America year-over-year.

Consequently, more and more people are clamoring for international flights. Compared to other large cities’ air hubs, Phoenix has a handful of overseas destinations, with direct landing spots in London, England and Frankfurt, Germany.

However, there is much more to adding international flights than one might imagine. In fact, the presence of business travelers drives most of an airline’s decision-making, as these fliers provide the most consistent traffic.

“In reality, airlines are 100 percent for-profit businesses, so they make their decisions about where to fly based on where they’ll make the most money,” explains Deborah Ostreicher, Phoenix Sky Harbor aviation director. “When we’re competing for an airline to come and serve Phoenix, Arizona with an aircraft, that aircraft is in demand by cities, depending on the airline, potentially all over the world. So, we’re not just competing with Las Vegas or San Diego; we’re potentially competing with Barcelona and Tel Aviv and Abu Dhabi and everywhere else. And the airline is always weighing their decision about where people will pay the most for the ticket and fill the flight.”

Ostreicher explains that travelers who pay business and first-class fares are the “bread and butter” of the airline’s decision to add an overseas flight. Without 100 or more people buying a business class ticket to an overseas destination, the airline isn’t willing to invest in an additional flight.

For example, because Phoenix had over 500 daily travelers to Europe, British Airways established a direct Phoenix-to-Heathrow flight. From there, travelers can conveniently venture outwards to other Western European countries. However, a destination like Tokyo only receives 30 to 60 travelers out of Phoenix every day, making it a less attractive starting point for an airline.

“Even though we are one of the largest [cities] in the country, we don’t have the highest average income, and our per-capita income is lower than a lot of our domestic competition. So even though San Diego is a smaller city, people earn more there, and even though it’s a smaller city, they have more big-business that travels,” Ostreicher said. “So, people say, ‘Well we have all this high-tech business here,’ which is true, but the jobs that are in the high-tech business here are not necessarily overwhelmingly the jobs that travel overseas – they’re more manufacturing jobs, which are great! But we don’t have a constant flow of business people traveling back and forth between Tokyo for business.”

This creates a paradoxical situation for airlines and businesses, Ostreicher notes. How does a city get more internationally operated businesses without direct, international flights? And on the other hand, how does a city’s airport obtain a flight without enough business travelers? Ostreicher explains that once companies locate here, she and her team can reel in new overseas travel opportunities.

“Which comes first, the chicken or the egg? How do you get the business without the flight?” she says. “[Business leaders] will tell you that we’ve never lost a deal for a locate because we don’t have nonstop service; it’s nice to have, but it’s not a deal breaker. If we get the business and the traffic is there, the airline will come.”

With Arizona ranked as the seventh best state for businesses, this doesn’t seem out of reach. The more the city invests in businesses and the infrastructure to attract and support them, the more international flights citizens will have available.

Right now, Sky Harbor has 23 nonstop international destinations, but only two are transatlantic and none go to Asia or Oceania.

Per the airports website:
http://www.skyharbor.com/flights/flyphx

Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport offers nonstop service to 23 international destinations! When you utilize these nonstop flights, or book connections straight through from Phoenix Sky Harbor, you are counted in the numbers of people traveling internationally and demanding these services. If you book your own flight to Los Angeles or other cities, then book another flight from there to your international destination, the data shows your flight ended in LA. Airlines don’t “see” you as an international traveler who would utilize a seat if they flew to Phoenix.

Last edited by ChaseM; Nov 15, 2019 at 2:48 AM.
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  #86  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2019, 10:45 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by combusean View Post
There's not nearly enough business travel or moneyed, cultural citizens for international travel, and I suspect its proximity to LAX makes carriers not bother.

Give it a while for things like Novus to build out. The explosion of North Tempe, the addition of Creighton, downtown's residential boom, etc has been unprecedented. You're looking at an almost-generational shift from the Phoenix of yore that only happened in a few years, and it's going to take time for the rest of the world to catch up.
I think this is an outdated perception

'there are not enough travelers" the Phoenix metro has a lot of wealthy people

Thats not it what brings international direct flights is business travel not once every couple of years international vacations.
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  #87  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 1:06 AM
skiesthelimit skiesthelimit is offline
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post

And as biggus I think pointed out before, this isnt totally uncommon in a large metro I think its particularly bad here especially when you still hear people be like "Oh well X or Y is a "real City"" I have been all over the world there is nothing un-city like about Phoenix unless you think a "real City" has to be Manhattan, or Hong Kong
As someone who moved here from the East Coast, my main complaint of a "real city" is the lack of public transportation and walkability. Phoenix suffers heavily from being car centric due to the way the city was built (for cars), and it's trying to bounce back from that for sure and doing a decent job at it. But the metro as a whole has a looooooooong ways to go, DTPHX, Old Town/North Scottsdale and Tempe are all stepping in the right direction in terms of walking but the rest of the metro... that's a different story.

In terms of public transportation, we have the expanding light rail, which is convenient if you live in Tempe or DTPHX anywhere else... again... not so much lol. And then there's the bus... which I'd prefer to not even talk about the bus because from what I've noticed with the routes, and running it through google maps it takes 2x as long as driving yourself and requires way too many transfers to get to where you need to go. i.e. (sourcing google transit here, correct me if I'm wrong), to go from Tempe to DTPHX it would take 3 buses and 1 hr 44 minutes... for what would normally be a 20 min drive... Whereas when you look at the footprint of other what people tend to call "real cities" outside of the two you mentioned, they all have much better public transportation (which we're getting there with light rail) and this is including cities that are smaller than us.

For comparison's sake, Phoenix was neck and neck with Philly up until last year or the year before is when it finally passed in population. Similar size population for both cities but DRASTICALLY different feeling of a "city" ignoring, climate, environment, and architecture.

And another major thing I see being brought up in here with regards to international flights (and to stray my post back on topic) is culture. There's a lack of culture that is unique to Phoenix, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it doesn't give the city an identity. Everyone is from everywhere and brings those cultures, but Phoenix is just a hodgepodge of people, it doesn't have it's own identity... at least not yet. As it stands, the major cultural influence here is Mexican, then I'd say Asian, and then maybe give a slight nod to Indian, but outside of those main 3... good luck trying to find something that isn't American food or Italian American cuisine. I've struggled finding authentic Eastern European food, African food, and Caribbean food/shops here in the valley since moving from back east and the ones here that I have found, don't offer nearly as much as the others. Soul food is also scarce here, which is something that is more mainstream in cities of similar size elsewhere in the country. And correct me if I'm wrong, but when majority of Phoenicians seem to go somewhere "international" it's either Hawaii (still the states lol) or Mexico. With some venturing to the Caribbean here and there...
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  #88  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 2:07 PM
azliam azliam is offline
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Originally Posted by skiesthelimit View Post
As someone who moved here from the East Coast, my main complaint of a "real city" is the lack of public transportation and walkability. Phoenix suffers heavily from being car centric due to the way the city was built (for cars), and it's trying to bounce back from that for sure and doing a decent job at it. But the metro as a whole has a looooooooong ways to go, DTPHX, Old Town/North Scottsdale and Tempe are all stepping in the right direction in terms of walking but the rest of the metro... that's a different story.

In terms of public transportation, we have the expanding light rail, which is convenient if you live in Tempe or DTPHX anywhere else... again... not so much lol. And then there's the bus... which I'd prefer to not even talk about the bus because from what I've noticed with the routes, and running it through google maps it takes 2x as long as driving yourself and requires way too many transfers to get to where you need to go. i.e. (sourcing google transit here, correct me if I'm wrong), to go from Tempe to DTPHX it would take 3 buses and 1 hr 44 minutes... for what would normally be a 20 min drive... Whereas when you look at the footprint of other what people tend to call "real cities" outside of the two you mentioned, they all have much better public transportation (which we're getting there with light rail) and this is including cities that are smaller than us.

For comparison's sake, Phoenix was neck and neck with Philly up until last year or the year before is when it finally passed in population. Similar size population for both cities but DRASTICALLY different feeling of a "city" ignoring, climate, environment, and architecture.

And another major thing I see being brought up in here with regards to international flights (and to stray my post back on topic) is culture. There's a lack of culture that is unique to Phoenix, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it doesn't give the city an identity. Everyone is from everywhere and brings those cultures, but Phoenix is just a hodgepodge of people, it doesn't have it's own identity... at least not yet. As it stands, the major cultural influence here is Mexican, then I'd say Asian, and then maybe give a slight nod to Indian, but outside of those main 3... good luck trying to find something that isn't American food or Italian American cuisine. I've struggled finding authentic Eastern European food, African food, and Caribbean food/shops here in the valley since moving from back east and the ones here that I have found, don't offer nearly as much as the others. Soul food is also scarce here, which is something that is more mainstream in cities of similar size elsewhere in the country. And correct me if I'm wrong, but when majority of Phoenicians seem to go somewhere "international" it's either Hawaii (still the states lol) or Mexico. With some venturing to the Caribbean here and there...
I think that's a broad assumption to claim that the majority of Phoenicians who travel "internationally" consider Hawaii "international" or limit their "international" travel to Hawaii or Mexico (or even Canada). It helps that we have a significant amount of direct flights to these places, so naturally more Arizonans would frequent these locales. I've been to Hawaii seven times and I can't even count how many times I've been to Mexico and Canada. However, I know many people from Arizona who have traveled abroad and beyond these locations. I, myself have traveled to many places including Australia, Hong Kong, Singapore, Macau, mainland China, Japan, all over Caribbean, England, Netherlands, Germany, France, Belgium, Italy, Greece, Canary Islands since I've lived in AZ.

According to this study of international flight search preferences by state in 2017 (doesn't indicate exactly what "international" implies, but the word "abroad" is used), Arizonans are at the national average of ⅔ of US airfare searches for domestic travel and ⅓ for international travel:

https://media.hopper.com/research/wh...road-this-year
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  #89  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 3:16 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by skiesthelimit View Post
As someone who moved here from the East Coast, my main complaint of a "real city" is the lack of public transportation and walkability. Phoenix suffers heavily from being car centric due to the way the city was built (for cars), and it's trying to bounce back from that for sure and doing a decent job at it. But the metro as a whole has a looooooooong ways to go, DTPHX, Old Town/North Scottsdale and Tempe are all stepping in the right direction in terms of walking but the rest of the metro... that's a different story.

In terms of public transportation, we have the expanding light rail, which is convenient if you live in Tempe or DTPHX anywhere else... again... not so much lol. And then there's the bus... which I'd prefer to not even talk about the bus because from what I've noticed with the routes, and running it through google maps it takes 2x as long as driving yourself and requires way too many transfers to get to where you need to go. i.e. (sourcing google transit here, correct me if I'm wrong), to go from Tempe to DTPHX it would take 3 buses and 1 hr 44 minutes... for what would normally be a 20 min drive... Whereas when you look at the footprint of other what people tend to call "real cities" outside of the two you mentioned, they all have much better public transportation (which we're getting there with light rail) and this is including cities that are smaller than us.

For comparison's sake, Phoenix was neck and neck with Philly up until last year or the year before is when it finally passed in population. Similar size population for both cities but DRASTICALLY different feeling of a "city" ignoring, climate, environment, and architecture.

And another major thing I see being brought up in here with regards to international flights (and to stray my post back on topic) is culture. There's a lack of culture that is unique to Phoenix, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it doesn't give the city an identity. Everyone is from everywhere and brings those cultures, but Phoenix is just a hodgepodge of people, it doesn't have it's own identity... at least not yet. As it stands, the major cultural influence here is Mexican, then I'd say Asian, and then maybe give a slight nod to Indian, but outside of those main 3... good luck trying to find something that isn't American food or Italian American cuisine. I've struggled finding authentic Eastern European food, African food, and Caribbean food/shops here in the valley since moving from back east and the ones here that I have found, don't offer nearly as much as the others. Soul food is also scarce here, which is something that is more mainstream in cities of similar size elsewhere in the country. And correct me if I'm wrong, but when majority of Phoenicians seem to go somewhere "international" it's either Hawaii (still the states lol) or Mexico. With some venturing to the Caribbean here and there...

This is still mostly moot because outside of the east coast most Midwest, southern and western cities are just as car dependent as Phoenix yet you never hear people that they are not “real” because they don’t have an old school east coast train system. Furthermore your statement about culture is shallow “not enough ethnic food like the ethnic foods I had back in the east coast” what a garbage complaint.

Whenever somebody talks about a lack of “culture” what they mean is that it isn’t like the eastern seaboard, you’d never hear somebody go to rural Mexico or some tiny town in the Caribbean with literally 0 diversity and call that place cultureless

Thank you, you are precisely what I am talking about, east coasters that move here and live in their suburban bliss and then pontificate that they don’t understand why Phoenix is such a suburban bliss type of place...
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  #90  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2019, 5:37 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Not Metro Phoenix but good news for Prescott:

http://azbex.com/10m-grant-confirmed...port-terminal/



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The long wait is over for the new Prescott Regional Airport terminal project.

During a Prescott City Council study session Tuesday, November 19th, Mayor Greg Mengarelli announced that he had just received word that the airport terminal project had been confirmed for a $10M Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) grant.

And that means that the postponed groundbreaking on the terminal project could occur by as early as December.

Mengarelli told the audience that he had heard from the office of U.S. Sen. Kyrsten Sinema just before the start of Tuesday’s meeting.

City officials had long reported that FAA officials had assured them that a grant was coming.

City officials had expected to hear about the grant award by late summer, and originally scheduled the groundbreaking for construction on October 4th.

Because of the delay, the city announced in September that it would be pushing off the terminal groundbreaking.

Airport Director Robin Sobotta said a formal public announcement is scheduled for Friday, November 22nd.

Meanwhile, she said, city officials would be in contact with the FAA to talk about the schedule for processing the grant.

The grant will also require a review and approval by the Prescott City Council.

With the next regular meeting of the City Council set for December 10th, Sobotta said a special council meeting could take place in the meantime to speed up the process.

City Manager Michael Lamar noted that with the FAA’s $10M — in combination with the $1M that the city recently accepted from the state and the $3.5M that the city has allocated from its own funds — the project should be ready to go.

On Monday, the city received word from its contracting team Willmeng Construction/Fann Contracting that the $13.9M guaranteed maximum price for the project would be extended from its initial deadline of November 16th until December 16th.
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  #91  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2019, 5:50 PM
exit2lef exit2lef is online now
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I believe all scheduled flights to Prescott are federally subsidized under the Essential Air Service program. Building a new terminal seems an expression of confidence that this program will continue for the long-term. There have been previous proposals from the Trump Administration to eliminate Essential Air Service, but I doubt that will actually occur. Many of the small cities and rural areas that benefit from this service are places where support for the president is strong.
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  #92  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2019, 7:12 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by exit2lef View Post
I believe all scheduled flights to Prescott are federally subsidized under the Essential Air Service program. Building a new terminal seems an expression of confidence that this program will continue for the long-term. There have been previous proposals from the Trump Administration to eliminate Essential Air Service, but I doubt that will actually occur. Many of the small cities and rural areas that benefit from this service are places where support for the president is strong.
Prescott is big enough now I'm surprised that it would need subsidies but maybe its too close to Phoenix unless it gets much larger
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  #93  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2019, 7:22 PM
exit2lef exit2lef is online now
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Prescott is big enough now I'm surprised that it would need subsidies but maybe its too close to Phoenix unless it gets much larger
I think proximity is the issue. Many people aren't willing to pay a premium for flights at their local airport if they can have access to more choices, larger jets, and cheaper fares at a major airport two hours away. I think the Essential Air Service makes sense for remote Alaskan villages and other destinations far removed from major airports. I don't think there's nearly a strong a case for it in a place like Prescott, but at this point, I believe EAS is here to stay. As you suggest, Prescott may eventually grow to the point that EAS subsidies are no longer needed. That may be part of the aspirational thinking in building this new terminal.
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  #94  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2019, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by exit2lef View Post
I think proximity is the issue. Many people aren't willing to pay a premium for flights at their local airport if they can have access to more choices, larger jets, and cheaper fares at a major airport two hours away. I think the Essential Air Service makes sense for remote Alaskan villages and other destinations far removed from major airports. I don't think there's nearly a strong a case for it in a place like Prescott, but at this point, I believe EAS is here to stay. As you suggest, Prescott may eventually grow to the point that EAS subsidies are no longer needed. That may be part of the aspirational thinking in building this new terminal.
JSX - focused on short haul flights with smaller jets - curiously has Prescott airport listed in the 'tell us where you want to fly from' drop downs. I think they could do pretty good business out of Prescott. Hopefully they expand there (and to Scottsdale Airport).

https://www.jsx.com/destinations

I'm flying them for the first time from PHX -> OAK next month. Was only $50 more than flying American on the same route.
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Old Posted Nov 22, 2019, 10:20 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by xymox View Post
JSX - focused on short haul flights with smaller jets - curiously has Prescott airport listed in the 'tell us where you want to fly from' drop downs. I think they could do pretty good business out of Prescott. Hopefully they expand there (and to Scottsdale Airport).

https://www.jsx.com/destinations

I'm flying them for the first time from PHX -> OAK next month. Was only $50 more than flying American on the same route.
Took it to vegas and the time savings alone would be worth paying more for a ticket and the best part is its basically on par with normal commercial flights.

Also diggin' that Mammoth seasonal, going to need to take advantage of that.

Everyone vote for a direct daily from Phoenix to Orange County so I can use it when I go to California
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  #96  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2019, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by xymox View Post
JSX - focused on short haul flights with smaller jets - curiously has Prescott airport listed in the 'tell us where you want to fly from' drop downs. I think they could do pretty good business out of Prescott. Hopefully they expand there (and to Scottsdale Airport).

https://www.jsx.com/destinations

I'm flying them for the first time from PHX -> OAK next month. Was only $50 more than flying American on the same route.
I doubt that. If they move to Scottsdale Airport. It's very near my house. It is not too far from there. We know where it is. It is on Scottsdale Rd & Greenway Rd.
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  #97  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 4:57 PM
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Sky Train Phase too Fluff piece

https://azbigmedia.com/business/tran...rs-experience/




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On Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport’s 3,400 acres, more than 120,000 passengers arrive and depart daily, more than 1,200 aircraft takeoff and land, more than 5,300 cars are rented and more than 20,000 parking spaces accommodate passengers, staff, visitors and businesses. Ranked as the No. 2 airport in the country, Sky Harbor strives to deliver the best service and experience for travelers with innovative and impactful projects.

Sky Harbor Airport is in the second phase of extending the PHX Sky Train, the free, 24-hour transportation service that currently runs just under 2 miles from the 44th Street/ Washington Valley Metro light rail station to Terminal 3. In Phase 2, the PHX Sky Train is being extended from Terminal 3, 2.5 miles to the Rental Car Center (RCC), said Heather Shelbrack, spokesperson, Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport.

“Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport is America’s Friendliest Airport,” Shelbrack said. “Our goal is to provide world-class customer service to every customer every day. The extension of the PHX Sky Train to the RCC will provide another way of delivering the best service we can. It will provide a convenient connection across the Airport’s facilities, making it much faster and easier for our travelers to access the RCC from the terminals.”

Phase 2, which began in July 2017, is expected to be completed in 2021 and operational by 2022, follows Phase 1 (which links Terminal 4, the East Economy Parking lot and garages and the 44th Street/ Washington Valley Metro light rail station) and 1A (which connects Terminal 4 and Terminal 3), which were completed in 2013 and 2014, respectively. The $740 million project will be paid for with Rental Car Customer Facility Charges and airline Passenger Facility Charges and no local tax dollars will be used.

“Several sections of the fixed guideway facility (primary deck) have been completed and turned over to the System Supplier for installation of running surfaces, switches and system operating equipment,” Shelbrack said. “The ‘topping off’ of the RCC station is anticipated mid-December 2019. Additionally, vehicle production has started with the first set of train cars expected to arrive in Phoenix in the summer of 2020.”

Andrew Klem, a project manager for The Weitz Company, a subcontractor to Bombardier Transportation on PHX Sky Train Phase 2, said they are currently constructing the guideway running surface, installing the system operating components and expanding the maintenance facility as part of Phase 2. When the guideway and maintenance facility are completed, Bombardier Transportation will begin commissioning the new 2.5-mile extension in preparation of its opening by summer of 2022.

Klem and Scott Thomas, a project manager with The Weitz Company, said the train’s design features in Phase 2 are consistent with what’s being used on PHX Sky Train’s existing lines, however they said there are plans in place to improve signage and wayfinding to help guests navigate the train schedules.

“Most of the improvements along the new phase will be to the user experience. The main user-friendly feature for Phase 2 is connecting the rental car facility to each airport terminal and the overall broader light rail line. Once completed, PHX Sky Train will connect the RCC to all terminals and the light rail station on 44th and Washington Streets. This connectivity will allow light rail users to connect to all terminals, utilize free park and ride lots, all while saving time.”

Shelbrack said with the completion of Phase 2, travelers will be able to more easily connect to all of Sky Harbor’s facilities. “Many local residents also enjoy coming to the airport just to ride the train and explore the shopping, dining, and various art exhibitions throughout the airport,” Shelbrack added. “This is popular with school groups, families (especially during school breaks) and couples looking for a unique date night. The PHX Sky Train extension will make it easy to enjoy a complete tour of Sky Harbor, all the way to the RCC.”

Airline passengers will also benefit from the completion of the project, Klem and Thomas said, and will improve their travel experience, as they can “deplane, get on PHX Sky Train directly to the rental car facility or move between different terminals. This is especially helpful in the summer months as you will now be able to get off the plane and go all the way to the RCC without being exposed to the elements. This improvement will also minimize the amount of bus traffic within Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport and eases congestion for arrivals and departures.”

In addition to creating an even better traveler experience with the completion of PHX Sky Train Phase 2, the long-term vision for the Western end of Sky Harbor is entailed in the airport’s roadmap for the future called the Comprehensive Asset Management Plan (CAMP), which the Phoenix City Council voted to send to the Federal Aviation Administration for review and approval earlier this year, Shelbrack said.

“As part of the roadmap, plans include: Moving cargo and support operations to the north side of the airport to create room for expanded terminal facilities; working with the Union Pacific Railroad to partially trench the track and build a taxiway bridge so that planes can access the relocated cargo operations; and providing space for the Air National Guard 161st Refueling Wing to expand on the south side of the airport. Additionally, the airport will renovate some of its older space in Terminal 4, and look to make improvements to traffic flow along Sky Harbor Boulevard,” Shelbrack said.


“Each individual project in this plan will need to be approved by the Phoenix City Council, and is designed to be phased incrementally, so each portion is built only when demand warrants. All projects would be paid for through grants, airport revenues, facility charges and bonds. No local tax dollars will be utilized,” Shelbrack said.

The completion of PHX Sky Train Phase 2 will also impact the future of Terminal 2. “At this time, all airlines at Terminal 2 will move to Terminal 3, and Terminal 2 will close,” Shelbrack said. “Terminal 2 will be demolished as we look to make use of the space for other future projects. A PHX Sky Train Station was not planned for Terminal 2, but as part of the PHX Sky Train project, we did plan for a future West Ground Transportation Center and a future station for an additional west terminal.” Shelbrack said the airport is in the process of modernizing Terminal 3, and the final component of the project (the North Concourse) will be complete in 2020.

Kirk Fonfara, Sr. business development manager with The Weitz Company, said PHX Sky Train is exciting for Weitz since they have been involved with the project since the beginning with Phase 1 and 1A which were completed in 2013 and have the opportunity to see the project built through completion with each phase.

“We are also fortunate to help contribute to the City’s continued expansion and investment into Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport. Through this legacy project, Weitz has also had the privilege of working with some outstanding construction, engineering, and design professionals which include Hensel Phelps, Deutsch Architecture, Lea and Elliott, Gannett Fleming, Kimley-Horn, Wilson Electric, Suntec Concrete, and many others over the course of the last 10 years,” Fonfara said.

“Jim Bennett (director of aviation services for the City of Phoenix) has also been a vital asset to our teams over the years leading the efforts to keep the project moving forward through multiple phases. This project is iconic for the City of Phoenix and Weitz appreciates having the opportunity to help construct the PHX Sky Train and partnering with our client Bombardier Transportation,” Fonfara said.

Both Klem and Thomas echoed Fonfara’s thoughts. “Having seen how this project has progressed since the beginning, Weitz has seen this project continue to improve in design and build efficiencies and it’s a true result of collaboration and teamwork between our partners, the City, and Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport. Keeping access for airport and municipal workers, minimizing traffic delays, and making sure we can construct this project around the clock, are some of the critical challenges that our team has been able to solve through constant communication and proactively and carefully planning each step of the design.”
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  #98  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2019, 1:06 AM
N830MH N830MH is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
Thanks for sharing this! I appreciate that. I really hope they can start construction T3N concourse 2, West Terminal, taxiways on both side and demolished the T2.
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  #99  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2019, 8:27 PM
ASU Diablo ASU Diablo is online now
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The historic mural in Sky Harbor Airport's Terminal 2 is moving

Cool article on the historic mural located in T2 and its pending move to the Rental Car Center

https://www.azcentral.com/story/trav...es/2613168001/
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  #100  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2019, 4:13 AM
N830MH N830MH is offline
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Hi all,

This is first-ever new PHX airport hotel.

https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news...ughes-11409871

What do you think of it?
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