[Moncton] Dieppe Developments

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Scarface

So they want to take over Lakeville? That's what it seems anyway, and as far as I know Lakeville is part of Moncton...

Nope. Lakeville is to the northwest of route 15. Dieppe is interested in the land to east of route 15.

[Nashe]

Why would they expand NE and not SE/E? You'd think they'd want to fill in the SE gap first... it would make more sense.

Link

[mylesmalley]

Originally Posted by Vorkuta

Why would they expand NE and not SE/E? You'd think they'd want to fill in the SE gap first... it would make more sense.

Link

Partly because of this I'm sure.

Purely speculating, but the other side of the TCH has rail access and arguably better highway access via Champlain and Scoudouc. Dieppe eventually wants to expand their industrial footprint to the other side of the airport, and the other side of the highway would be a reasonable next step.

That land is also closer to Dieppe's water supply, which might mean it's cheaper to service.

[benvui]

I still don't believe it is necessary, there is a lot of undeveloped/underdeveloped land within the City of Dieppe limits, expansion shouldn't be allowed until the land they currently have is used.

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by mylesmalley

Partly because of this I'm sure.

Purely speculating, but the other side of the TCH has rail access and arguably better highway access via Champlain and Scoudouc. Dieppe eventually wants to expand their industrial footprint to the other side of the airport, and the other side of the highway would be a reasonable next step.

That land is also closer to Dieppe's water supply, which might mean it's cheaper to service.

Maybe so. Still, there's a lot of bog/swamp over there, unlike towards Memramcook. Wierd.

[mylesmalley]

Originally Posted by benvui

I still don't believe it is necessary, there is a lot of undeveloped/underdeveloped land within the City of Dieppe limits, expansion shouldn't be allowed until the land they currently have is used.

What difference if they're annexing uninhabited unincorporated land?

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by mylesmalley

What difference if they're annexing uninhabited unincorporated land?

I assume because he's (and I'm) worried about more sprawl.

[mylesmalley]

Zoning and land use planning are a lot tighter in incorporated cities than in unincorporated rural communities. Density can only happen where utilities are available. As the city fills up, we'll see more and more development along the periphery that uses huge lots (to handle septic fields) that will end up taking much more space than (relatively) more densely packed suburban neighborhoods. Dieppe can put much tighter controls on the types of development going up.

Not to mention the tax argument - people living in these surrounding areas will almost certainly work in the city but not pay taxes there - meaning they'll be contributing to infrastructure wear and tear, traffic etc, but not paying towards upkeep.

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by mylesmalley

Not to mention the tax argument - people living in these surrounding areas will almost certainly work in the city but not pay taxes there - meaning they'll be contributing to infrastructure wear and tear, traffic etc, but not paying towards upkeep.

Have you looked at the area in question? Nobody would live there without a lot of fill. A lot. Might make sense for further expansion of the industrial park, though.

[Scarface]

Originally Posted by Vorkuta

Have you looked at the area in question? Nobody would live there without a lot of fill. A lot. Might make sense for further expansion of the industrial park, though.

To me it does not make any sense ti'll Dieppe is really out of land, and not crying wolf... The fact they want to expand under false pretences "We have no more land to develop" Should hopefully be a good reason for the province to say no... From the way the story is written the Mayor of Dieppe is trying to expand into both Lakeville, and Painsec Junction. Because they are saying both North of Highways 2/15, and East of highway 2.

[JHikka]

Myles is correct in this circumstance.

As far as i'm concerned i'd rather municipalities eat up as much land and territory as possible. The larger municipalities we have the better; the fewer unincorporated rural communities we have the better. The likelihood of development is far greater in Dieppe territory than in unincorporated territory which would otherwise have no direct controller. In the end i'd obviously like to see Dieppe merged into a Greater Codiac region, but for the time being eating up as much rural space as possible is just as good.

In NB, i'd rather we worry about sprawl and future developments than have no sprawl or developments at all. The sprawl is going to happen until it reaches a point where it's infeasible to travel to the larger urban areas. AFAIK, people travel from Shediac and Cap-Pelé to Moncton, so Scoudouc really isn't that big a deal. I don't think that if we refused Dieppe's application for territory expansion that they would suddenly begin building 20-story apartment buildings out of the need for urbanization. The demand isn't there for that. That only happens when it becomes too difficult to expand out.

From what I can tell of maps the city of Moncton has Lakeville within its boundaries. They are both NW of the 2/15 interchange. In the NE corner of the interchange there is nothing heading towards Scoudouc. The NE isn't technically the NE but rather the NE quadrant of the interchange. Just use the interchange as an orientation for NW/NE. The airport would technically be in the SE quadrant of the interchange when using this when it is literally S of the interchange.

Originally Posted by Scarface

From the way the story is written the Mayor of Dieppe is trying to expand into both Lakeville, and Painsec Junction. Because they are saying both North of Highways 2/15, and East of highway 2.

Painsec is South of Route 2.

[Scarface]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Myles is correct in this circumstance.

As far as i'm concerned i'd rather municipalities eat up as much land and territory as possible. The larger municipalities we have the better; the fewer unincorporated rural communities we have the better. The likelihood of development is far greater in Dieppe territory than in unincorporated territory which would otherwise have no direct controller. In the end i'd obviously like to see Dieppe merged into a Greater Codiac region, but for the time being eating up as much rural space as possible is just as good.

In NB, i'd rather we worry about sprawl and future developments than have no sprawl or developments at all. The sprawl is going to happen until it reaches a point where it's infeasible to travel to the larger urban areas. AFAIK, people travel from Shediac and Cap-Pelé to Moncton, so Scoudouc really isn't that big a deal. I don't think that if we refused Dieppe's application for territory expansion that they would suddenly begin building 20-story apartment buildings out of the need for urbanization. The demand isn't there for that. That only happens when it becomes too difficult to expand out.

From what I can tell of maps the city of Moncton has Lakeville within its boundaries. They are both NW of the 2/15 interchange. In the NE corner of the interchange there is nothing heading towards Scoudouc. The NE isn't technically the NE but rather the NE quadrant of the interchange. Just use the interchange as an orientation for NW/NE. The airport would technically be in the SE quadrant of the interchange when using this when it is literally S of the interchange.


Painsec is South of Route 2.

I said Painsec Junction not Painsec... Painsec is within the Highway Painsec Junction is the oposite side of the Highway so it would be East or NE.

[mylesmalley]

Originally Posted by Scarface

To me it does not make any sense ti'll Dieppe is really out of land, and not crying wolf... The fact they want to expand under false pretences "We have no more land to develop" Should hopefully be a good reason for the province to say no... From the way the story is written the Mayor of Dieppe is trying to expand into both Lakeville, and Painsec Junction. Because they are saying both North of Highways 2/15, and East of highway 2.

What false pretences? The city limits are 75% full and the city wants to annex more land for future development.

Dieppe isn't talking about annexing land already incorporated into Moncton. And so what if they did go after land past Lakeville? Almost all of Moncton's growth has been in the west end of the city.

For what it's worth, don't be surprised if you see Riverview come to annex land to the south of the current town limits, and for Moncton to go after the rest of the land south of the TCH and north of the hump yard in the next few years.

[pierremoncton]

Originally Posted by JHikka

From what I can tell of maps the city of Moncton has Lakeville within its boundaries.

Correction: Moncton ends roughly at the railway crossing on Shediac Rd near Baseline Rd. Google Maps depicts this correctly if you just enter "Moncton".

[L'homard]

Well, if Moncton's land mass was 75% full, most here would be shitting bricks, and rightly so!
Seems like a non-issue to me. Shediac triped its size last year when it took over a massive chunk of land from the south side of Route 15 to Scoudouc and no one batted an eye.
This is what wise municipalities do. They think decades ahead.
Personally, if I had any interest in Dieppe, it would be in why they've never seen an overpass into the airport as a prirority, or their high and getting higher debt ratio, or their crumbling Champlain Street., or why they are spending mega millions on a water source when they already have treated water piped to every house, company an industry.
But that's just silly me.

[Hogie75]

Originally Posted by L'homard

Well, if Moncton's land mass was 75% full, most here would be shitting bricks, and rightly so!
Seems like a non-issue to me. Shediac triped its size last year when it took over a massive chunk of land from the south side of Route 15 to Scoudouc and no one batted an eye.
This is what wise municipalities do. They think decades ahead.
Personally, if I had any interest in Dieppe, it would be in why they've never seen an overpass into the airport as a prirority, or their high and getting higher debt ratio, or their crumbling Champlain Street., or why they are spending mega millions on a water source when they already have treated water piped to every house, company an industry.
But that's just silly me.

I find it strange that they didn't try to annex Greater Lakeburn and connect up with the border of Memramcook as that area is not developed and within the Trans Canada Loop, but I guess they want to have the visibility of the airport and route 15 I guess. But I think it would make more sense as it is still right on the TCH and a lot easier to develop probably.

[MonctonRad]

With the proposed new phase of the Airport Industrial Park, Aviation Avenue will be extended eastward. Ultimately, the plan is to build a new interchange from Aviation Avenue accessing the TCH to the east of the airport. This interchange would allow access to the newly annexed land to the north of the TCH. I imagine this explains Dieppe's interest in expanding in this direction. I don't foresee this annexed territory being used much for residential. I expect ultimately it will be industrial, perhaps with some commercial thrown in where it borders the TCH.

None of this will happen for 20 years or so........

[NBNYer]

Structural steel is up to the third floor for the office building at the corner of Champlain and Marché. It's quite imposing over the intersection and will give the area a much more urban feel. If the lots on either side of 200 Champlain street can also be developed, I think Dieppe will finally legitimately have a downtown.

[drewber]

Picture of the work as of last night. Coming along pretty well!

[micks5477]

Courtesy of Drewber, whose pic was huge, I downsized it for him and others to see.