Ontario Budget Suggestions????

[bornagainbiking]

Saddled with a $12.5-billion deficit, Sousa is eager to hear ways to increase revenues and reduce spending so he launched the "Budget Talks" site last week.

"It's the first time we've done it," said the treasurer, who is also convening province-wide prebudget hearings.

"People have their ideas. I'm open to ideas. A good idea is a good idea — I don't care where it comes from," he said Wednesday.

In the run-up to last June's election, the Liberals launched a similar online suggestion box — known as "Common Ground" — but few proposals made the platform.

Still, the government is seeking feedback on how to prioritize spending and operate more efficiently to "create a better province."

[1overcosc]

If you go through them you find practically everything. Most quite left-wing (lots of "fund all dental care under OHIP" or "double welfare rates" type stuff), which perhaps reflects the demographics who do this sort of thing.

One thing I find amusing out of all this. Catholic school boards actually sent out memos to admin staff to go through and downvote any items calling for the end to public funding of Catholic boards (of which there are predictably a lot). Like the government is going to pay attention to downvoting/upvoting of anything. Provincial officials (Wynne/Sousa themselves? Staffers?) are likely to just read through everything and grab what they like, rather than trusting unscientific upvote/downvote counters.

[1overcosc]

There were actually several really clever efficiencies proposed. One was to replace enterprise software with open source software on government computers (ie. use LibreOffice instead of Microsoft Office, Linux instead of Windows, etc.) which could save big on software licensing fees.

[Tony]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

There were actually several really clever efficiencies proposed. One was to replace enterprise software with open source software on government computers (ie. use LibreOffice instead of Microsoft Office, Linux instead of Windows, etc.) which could save big on software licensing fees.

I wonder if this could be a security issue. Exploiting open source software is likely a lot easier...

[eternallyme]

First thing I would do: reduce MPP and staffer salaries to minimum wage (with no bonuses) until both the budget is balanced and Ontario is no longer a "have-not" province.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

First thing I would do: reduce MPP and staffer salaries to minimum wage (with no bonuses) until both the budget is balanced and Ontario is no longer a "have-not" province.

Would save very little money. Politicians' salaries and office expenses account for a much much much smaller amount of the budget than the fiscal conservative rhetoric would have you believe.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Tony

I wonder if this could be a security issue. Exploiting open source software is likely a lot easier...

In terms of operating systems, Linux systems are generally much more secure than Windows systems (there's a reason why the majority of the world's web servers run Linux). As for software above OS level, it would depend on what exactly the role of a given application is. Certain use cases would require enterprise software for security, but the vast majority would not. There's certainly no security reason for the government to spend millions of dollars buying Microsoft Office licenses, for example.

[haljackey]

Some suggestions:

Raise PST 2% (covers the 2% drop in GST a few years back)

Get rid of the Catholic School board

Get rid of TVO

Put the Green Energy Program on hold (don't cancel funded/approved projects, but don't greenlight anything new until budget is balanced)

Get rid of the 30% tuition credit (students will hate this)

Make HOV lanes HOT lanes (vehicles with 1 occupant can use it but pay a fee like 407)

Make government more accountable (stop these stupid, costly party scandals)

Implement Drummond Report recommendations wherever possible

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Some suggestions:

Raise PST 2% (covers the 2% drop in GST a few years back)

Get rid of the Catholic School board

Both should happen but would be political suicide for an Ontario politician. It would amount to something like $6B between the two of them, or about half the deficit right there.

Originally Posted by haljackey

Get rid of TVO

Never thought about that one. Probably a good idea to save some cash.

Originally Posted by haljackey

Put the Green Energy Program on hold (don't cancel funded/approved projects, but don't greenlight anything new until budget is balanced)

Wouldn't actually save money from the budget as hydro is funded by ratepayers. Most of the ratepayer increase of recent years is associated with the large costs of nuclear rehab, not green energy.

Originally Posted by haljackey

Get rid of the 30% tuition credit (students will hate this)

Semi-agree. I'd advocate scrapping this and using the savings to increase the proportion of OSAP that is non-repayable (ie. replace some loan amount with bursary amount). With tuition skyrocketing and the province increasingly moving to a high-skills economy where post-secondary education is essential, student assistance is too vital to cut.

There's a lot of rhetoric about the 30% tuition credit "not covering most students" but it's not really true, as most of the restrictions are quite reasonable. It excludes non-Ontarians (valid as this is funded by Ontario taxpayers), mature students (valid as they in theory should have some head start on saving for tuition already), and individuals from wealthy families (valid as they don't need reductions).

Originally Posted by haljackey

Make HOV lanes HOT lanes (vehicles with 1 occupant can use it but pay a fee like 407)

This one is already happening

Originally Posted by haljackey

Make government more accountable (stop these stupid, costly party scandals)

Have there been any lately? Last one was the gas plants right?

Originally Posted by haljackey

Implement Drummond Report recommendations wherever possible

Isn't the government already going through with most of it?

In any case, these cuts only had to be allow for a spending freeze, as the fiscal plan is to keep spending at current levels and allow revenue growth to eat into the deficit over the course of a few years.

[haljackey]

OK some other suggestions

Take over the beer store, tax the crap out of all liquor and beer. Can be seen as a positive health move as well as people may stop drinking or drinking as much.
-Sell booze in corner and grocery stores

Build casinos in major cities

Tax the crap outa cigarettes. Can be seen as a positive health move as well as people may stop smoking or smoking as much.

Legalize weed and tax like cigarettes.

Increase fines for pretty much everything.

Decrease correctional service spending by allowing low level offenders to either pay a fine or do community service instead of jail time.

Implement more preventative healthcare measures... can help lessen the strain on dr's offices / hospitals if people can get better care outside of them

Fat tax. Tax fast food and crap. Businesses will protest but they make buckets of money anyway.

Carbon tax? I know we're looking into some measures of it but I also don't want it to hurt business / manufacturing here.

Public sector wage freeze for EVERYONE until budget is balanced.

Increase minimum wage to like $14-15 an hour. Means people will have more to spend and income gap is lessened.
-Also, tax higher income earners some more. Like anyone making 100k or more a year.

Infrastructure spending via PPPs (public-private partnerships). Build highways such as the GTA west freeway / mid pen with private dollars and make it tolled until money is recouped. Then after businesses make their 'cut', make it free or get toll revenues to go to the province.

Increase corporate tax rate but not too much as you don't want businesses to leave. Tread lightly but most businesses understand that Ontario's fiscal woes is or will impact their bottom line.
-Maybe cut tax credits in places where we can get away with it

Get the Lieutenant governor to make a mandate that the government balance their budget by a said date.
-If the government doesn't show commitment to doing this, dissolve it and form a new government that is willing to take on the challenge, call an election or boot out the political party in power.


---

IMO, stuff that shouldn't be cut:

Infrastructure. Toronto already has the highest commute times in North America and it and its surrounding metro area are growing. Needs significant upgrades. Other cities also have infrastructure deficits that they can't fix themselves.

Tourism. Its a competitive market and Ontario should really be doing more to market itself. Lower dollar = targeting the US pretty hard.

Health - aging population = huge strain and we need to keep up with it. But we should invest more in healthcare outside of traditional means to keep people out of the hospitals and dr's offices as much as possible.

Education - need to keep this up but some loopholes can be closed to keep costs down like class sizes and getting rid of redundancies.

Energy - going coal free wasn't cheap, but we did it. Would be stupid to do a 180 on it.
-Having said that see my comments above for putting the green energy act on hold and instead use money to keep nukes going / building new nukes and nat gas plants.

Thats what I can think of now. Ontario just needs to be frugal.

[swimmer_spe]

Here are my suggestions...

1) Raise PST by 1%, really, who is going to notice that. That is $1 on every $100. for someone making $100,000, that means that about $1000 is going to the government.

2) Raise the provincial income tax on the top tiered earners. They can afford the hit. While it may not be much, it would help.

3) The highest earner that is paid by the Government of Ontario is the Premier. Anyone making more than that, that is paid by they government of Ontario shall see their wages frozen, and then cut by 5% per year until it is below the Premier. The Premier could be viewed as the head of a company. The head of a company is the one that makes the most.

4) All persons who are paid by the Government of Ontario will see their wage freeze. If a person moves into a higher paid position, they would earn that new pay rate.

5) Merge the Catholic and the Public School boards into one. Merge the English and Francophone school boards into one. We would go from 4 boards to one. We do not close schools. We get rid of the Administration overhead. We give the Catholic Parishes a chance to buy the Catholic schools and run them as private schools.

6) Toll all 400 series highways at a rate of $0.01 a km. A trip end to end of the 401 would be about $9. Toll Highways 11 and 17 for all trucks over 5000kgs at a similar rate. At $0.01 a km, highway 17 would be about $15 end to end.

7) Change MPP pensions so that they are in line with the rest of the province's pension requirements.

8) Raise the fare for Go Transit. Even a slight increase would greatly reduce the subsidy it requires to operate.

Things I would not do is:
1) Privatize anything owned by the province. Rae and Harris has decimated this province. We do not need another episode of that.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

1) Raise PST by 1%, really, who is going to notice that. That is $1 on every $100. for someone making $100,000, that means that about $1000 is going to the government.

Agree, so much. I believe that's worth just over $2B. A big money maker.

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

2) Raise the provincial income tax on the top tiered earners. They can afford the hit. While it may not be much, it would help.

They already did that.. twice. Once in 2012 again in 2014.

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

4) All persons who are paid by the Government of Ontario will see their wage freeze. If a person moves into a higher paid position, they would earn that new pay rate.

I believe the government is already doing that. Recent agreements achieved with unions do give them small wage increases but provide savings elsewhere in the collective agreement to offset.

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

6) Toll all 400 series highways at a rate of $0.01 a km. A trip end to end of the 401 would be about $9. Toll Highways 11 and 17 for all trucks over 5000kgs at a similar rate. At $0.01 a km, highway 17 would be about $15 end to end.

At a rate that low, wouldn't the overhead be high? A really good idea IMO, but political suicide in this nutty province.

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

7) Change MPP pensions so that they are in line with the rest of the province's pension requirements.

I believe MPPs don't have pensions, I heard they were eliminated by the Harris government. (Ironically, that means MPPs will be subject to the government's ORPP plans).

[HillStreetBlues]

The provincial government ought to have raised the PST to take effect on the same day the GST cut was implemented. Consumption taxes are fairer and more progressive. We’re in the muck and mire here, so raising it a percent or two would not be uncalled for. Many jurisdictions have VATs much higher than ours, with fewer of our exemptions.

Road tolls are both a no-brainer and, as 1overcosc points out, probably a non-starter in this myopic province. We’d be spurring on huge efficiencies in terms of development and eliminating unfair cross-subsidies if at least some of the 400-series were operated on at least a part cost-recovery basis. It may or may not be political suicide (I’m inclined to agree), but the time to implement it with the least risk to a re-election bid would be near the start of a term.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by HillStreetBlues

T

(snip), but the time to implement it with the least risk to a re-election bid would be near the start of a term.

And they are at the start of a term with a majority mandate.

Maybe the political suicide will actually have use remembering the good and not the scandals.

[tyeman200]

I'm just wondering, why does everyone want to get rid of the catholic school board? Why not get rid of the public school board? I mean, just from what I've seen in my city, the public school board isn't doing to well, shutting down schools left and right, while the catholic board is expanding and building more schools.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by tyeman200

I'm just wondering, why does everyone want to get rid of the catholic school board? Why not get rid of the public school board? I mean, just from what I've seen in my city, the public school board isn't doing to well, shutting down schools left and right, while the catholic board is expanding and building more schools.

Short answer, to bring the Ontario public schools inline with the other provinces in Canada. No other province has a religious school board paid for by the public coffers.

[tyeman200]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Short answer, to bring the Ontario public schools inline with the other provinces in Canada. No other province has a religious school board paid for by the public coffers.

Actually, 6 of the 13 provinces still have catholic school boards that are funded by the government

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by tyeman200

Actually, 6 of the 13 provinces still have catholic school boards that are funded by the government

Which provinces?

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by tyeman200

I'm just wondering, why does everyone want to get rid of the catholic school board? Why not get rid of the public school board? I mean, just from what I've seen in my city, the public school board isn't doing to well, shutting down schools left and right, while the catholic board is expanding and building more schools.

You must be seeing a local anomoly. The public school system is gaining "market share", not losing. Both are seeing declining enrollment due to the aging population and declining birth rate, but it's falling faster in the Catholic board. Past 5 years have seen Catholic enrollment fall by 2.9%, public enrollment fall by 1.4%.

Source: http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/general...Facts12_13.pdf

With an increasingly multicultural & secular province, it's only natural that Catholic enrollment will continue to decline.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Which provinces?

Alberta and Saskatchewan also give full funding. Not sure about others.