Is This Really Living?

miketoronto · #1 Posted **Aug 3, 2015, 4:57 PM**

Many world cities with serious crime issues have seen their residents barricade themselves behind electric and cement walls, such as this:

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Ros...63dc372a25eb5d

Could you live in such an environment? No matter how exciting the city, I don't think I would ever find it normal or ok to live behind a gate like that.

Your views on cities which have basically seen their residential zones become gated enclaves.

The ATX · #2 Posted **Aug 3, 2015, 5:52 PM**

I've spent a fair amount of time checking out South Africa on Streetview because the coverage is extensive while most of Africa is not covered. There are a lot of really nice neighborhoods that are more or less prisons. But it does lower the chances of a home invasion which is a problem there.

destroycreate · #3 Posted **Aug 3, 2015, 6:40 PM**

After being a victim of crime a number of times, nothing is more valuable to me anymore than safety - especially after experiencing a home invasion. There really is nothing more disturbing than strangers being in your home, or threatening your loved ones with violence.

If I were affluent and lived in a very violent country like Brazil, Mexico, or South Africa, absolutely I would choose to live in this type of environment. It's not ideal, but for those that have no choice but to live in that country, it is as ideal as it will get. I'm pretty sure they're not thinking about "walkability" as much as they are "will I get mugged today while walking?".

Reverberation · #4 Posted **Aug 3, 2015, 7:02 PM**

What's crazy is that the barricades still don't keep the criminals out. They are just meant to buy enough time for the police to arrive. I met some (white) people who left South Africa and were telling me stories of people's dogs getting poisoned, phone lines, and power getting cut, and burglars sawing their way through the roof to get in. People who live further out in the country have it much worse. Apparently, racism aside, lots of white and black South Africans get nostalgic about the old SA before Mandela and the ANC because for all the good they did fighting apartheid, they brought quite a bit of violence and corruption with them.

Criminals (being relatively competent people) act when they feel that they will get away without punishment. I'm curious if there is a chart floating around somewhere showing the relationship between corruption and crime rates.

iheartthed · #5 Posted **Aug 3, 2015, 7:08 PM**

It looks like L.A.

SignalHillHiker · #6 Posted **Aug 3, 2015, 7:21 PM**

It's the same dynamic as that recent study showing people who buy SUVs are far less likely to die in a crash but far more likely to kill people in other vehicles involved. Larger vehicles are more expensive, but it's an advantage those who can afford it are willing to pay to get.

As for living in a gated community, no. They're illegal here anyway.

animatedmartian · #7 Posted **Aug 3, 2015, 8:01 PM**

I'm more curious on how ADT has cornered the market in home security there.

McBane · #8 Posted **Aug 3, 2015, 8:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by destroycreate

After being a victim of crime a number of times, nothing is more valuable to me anymore than safety - especially after experiencing a home invasion. There really is nothing more disturbing than strangers being in your home, or threatening your loved ones with violence.

If I were affluent and lived in a very violent country like Brazil, Mexico, or South Africa, absolutely I would choose to live in this type of environment. It's not ideal, but for those that have no choice but to live in that country, it is as ideal as it will get. I'm pretty sure they're not thinking about "walkability" as much as they are "will I get mugged today while walking?".

Well said. I know several (white) people who moved out of S.A. and either they themselves or someone in their immediate family was a victim of a violent crime. S.A. - JoBurg in particular - is a fucked up place. You better believe all those people living in those gated homes are armed as well. It's not just that the criminals will rob you; you're liable to be killed.

fflint · #9 Posted **Aug 3, 2015, 8:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by destroycreate

After being a victim of crime a number of times, nothing is more valuable to me anymore than safety - especially after experiencing a home invasion. There really is nothing more disturbing than strangers being in your home, or threatening your loved ones with violence.

Did that happen here in SF?

austlar1 · #10 Posted **Aug 3, 2015, 8:48 PM**

I think that there are many neighborhoods in the hills of California cities, in South Florida, and elsewhere in the US that are similar in appearance. Kind of reminds me of parts of the Hollywood Hills in LA, or Coconut Grove in Miami. There are affluent streets in some Texas cities that have lots of walled off homes. I don't have a problem with living behind a wall, but I really do not like the idea of gated or private subdivisions.

pdxtex · #11 Posted **Aug 3, 2015, 8:58 PM**

in concept how different is it living in controlled access building in the middle of a major city? sure its not some compound but the anonymity and privacy are similar. if you lived in a high crime country you would probably want some means of security. we have it easy in the west, the level of general poverty is far lower then most of the world. people are people wherever you go, its just the levels of desperation change.

NorthernDancer · #12 Posted **Aug 3, 2015, 8:58 PM**

A friend of mine lives in Honduras now. He tells me pretty much anyone with money there lives like that. Plus guns and guard dogs.

pdxtex · #13 Posted **Aug 3, 2015, 9:07 PM**

^^^central America is sketchy, maybe latin America in general. but thats what you get when you are world pipeline between the top narcotic producer and consumer. according whitehouse.gov, "The seven Central American nations are considered major drug transit countries that significantly affect the United States: Belize, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, and Panama. United States Government analysts estimate that approximately 90 percent of illegal drugs from South America destined for the United States are smuggled through the seven Central American countries and Mexican corridor. Of this amount, nearly 80 percent stops first in a Central American country before onward shipment to Mexico." Subsequently, Honduras is the only country where Ive been to where ive had my place broken into. but that's not unheard of in touristy places. I think the mainland is no joke though. san pedro is the wild west. we were only there for an afternoon but the drug trade is out of control there. as a tourist you probably aren't any more likely to be a victim of crime as a local. just stay out of the hood and any place where drugs are being trafficked. my word of advice about second and third world travel and possibly residence. don't drink to excess, your new friends at the cantina are not your friends and don't talk to chatty girl friends of your new found friends, at least not while drinking. ironically, the only time ive ever been a victim of a violent, or attempted violent crime was in "safe" Portland, Oregon where I was held up at knife point.

fflint · #14 Posted **Aug 3, 2015, 10:11 PM**

When my Dad lived in Rio de Janeiro in 1973, his compound not only had high walls but also guards with machine guns. The rest of the family was supposed to join him there, but he soon realized he didn't want to insert his wife and two small children into that scenario. We relocated instead to California. So--my parents would say "no," that is not really living. And I would tend to agree.

pdxtex · #15 Posted **Aug 3, 2015, 10:25 PM**

^^^wow. what did you pop do? foreign service or something?

DatFiyah · #16 Posted **Aug 3, 2015, 10:53 PM**

Houston has A LOT of those neighborhoods as well. Some are right in the middle of areas filled with lower rent apartments. Homes going for 400k - 700k walled off and completely surrounded in some cases by section 8 apartments.

It's like the residents want to be in the middle of the city, have all the amenities and action that provides, but don't want to actually be a part of the city.

chris08876 · #17 Posted **Aug 3, 2015, 10:57 PM**

A wall , a nice 24' luxury fence around a property surrounded by nice landscaping, and one with a button to buzz in is the epitome of luxury and privacy. And... there must be a fountain in the middle of the long driveway.

I see nothing wrong. A home is a man or womans castle. Who needs to see what he or she is doing.

fflint · #18 Posted **Aug 3, 2015, 11:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdxtex

^^^wow. what did you pop do? foreign service or something?

He provided technical assistance in planning (and, if we had stayed, would have also assisted in building and running) a massive bi-national hydroelectric utility. The project took a decade to construct, so basically, my sister and I would have grown up Brazilian, with few if any memories of living in the US. Yet we wouldn't have lived a normal Brazilian life either. Brazil was at the time run by a military dictatorship, and foreign consultants assisting the junta to realize their big plans were considered vulnerable to guerrilla attack. We would have spent the first several years sequestered from the general population under very tight security in compounds far more fortified than the ones shown in this thread. I understand the threat became less dire with the onset of the 1980s, but circa 1973 it just wasn't the kind of life my parents wanted for their children. We know the family who went in our stead--they absolutely hated it.

iheartthed · #19 Posted **Aug 4, 2015, 1:07 AM**

I don't really see how this is any different than white Americans fleeing central cities for suburban cul-de-sacs. Gated houses and buildings in Latin American cities are probably less a necessity than they are a sign of affluence.

AviationGuy · #20 Posted **Aug 4, 2015, 1:23 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DatFiyah

Houston has A LOT of those neighborhoods as well. Some are right in the middle of areas filled with lower rent apartments. Homes going for 400k - 700k walled off and completely surrounded in some cases by section 8 apartments.

It's like the residents want to be in the middle of the city, have all the amenities and action that provides, but don't want to actually be a part of the city.

I haven't seen that there, but I certainly haven't been in every neighborhood. Is that near Gulfton, by any chance?

I haven't seen walled off homes them here in Austin (unless just for privacy) but maybe we should have them considering the home invasions going on here, including one recently on the street behind me. And about a mile from here, and elderly couple was recently murdered in a home invasion. They had lived in their home for about 50 years.