Help me understand...

[Bobomo]

The Portland job market!

I've been starting this discussion in a couple different forums in an attempt to try and get to some of the causes - irrespective of the current economic funk - of the poor reputation for the Portland's (and I guess, Oregon's in general) job market. It's almost a meme at this point; sky is blue, water is wet, there were no Matrix sequels, Portland's job market sucks.

SSP seems to have a higher percentage of educated "insiders" than the other forums I've had this discussion on, so I'm eager to hear your opinion. So far, these are some of the themes I've come across:

• Not a "college town" but lots of small colleges introduce lots of young workers into the market every year
• Portland is a "trendy" place to live; people who follow trends don't create jobs and are only secondarily concerned with employment
• Few large scale employers; small companies are more insular in hiring practices
• Higher quality of life leads more people to accept less for their abilities
• Hipsters

Obviously, these are pretty generalized. So I was hoping for some more detailed thoughts. Outside of this general idea - which I don't particularly agree with - that liberal governments are "bad for business", I'm unclear on the specifics of the market malaise. Is it as simple as supply and demand?

(For the record: I'm a 30 year old married male who would like to relocate to Portland. However, after one aborted attempt 3 years ago [when the economy was "good"] we've become much more cautious and thoughtful about our strategy. Hoping this information might give me a little more comfort level in future attempts.)

[brandonpdx]

I think a lot of people move out here without a job lined up and without a network network in Portland its hard to find a job. I know a lot of people that made sure they had a job lined up before they moved out here.

[philopdx]

Same here, I came with a job that was based remotely, then parlayed that into a local position. I knew better than to come without any job prospects whatsoever.

Why is the employment situation that way it is? I think there are two reasons:
1) We have a unending stream of educated young people migrating here, keeping the labor supply bloated.
2) We also have collectively made the decision to promote quality of life over the development of business.

Since the last thing I want to see is Portland become a Houston or Oklahoma City, I guess we'll have to find a more creative solution at economic development.

Maybe we could turn our biggest weakness - endless hordes of moderately talented, partially motivated and somewhat creative hipsters - into a strength.

Perhaps the city could hatch some economic incentives to draw in new media and creative services companies that offer writing, music, ad campaigns, stock photography,viral videos, etc. and claim it's WAY cheaper to do business here than LA, NYC, or Vancouver. You know, turn our "buzz" into concrete dollars.

[WestCoast]

As a young employer who has only owned two businesses in Portland (and no other cities in the county) I am likely biased.

However, I basically phrase it as such 'Portland isn't a business town'

It's just not. Taxes are high, businesses are not looked upon favorably, everyone expects the best health care for free. 'Working hard to get ahead' is not as revered as in most parts of the country.

This doesn't say to me it's 'hard' to do business in Portland, just less friendly than Silicon Valley, or New York, or larger cities in the South, where they understand that businesses large and small powers the economy (and enable any government programs that are offered)

--
As our business grows, I look with more concern on the Portland government. We're still a small hill of beans compared to large corporations, so maybe it doesn't matter what I think.

At the end of the day, when I sell this business and look to start the next one... as much as I LOVE Portland (I live downtown, take mass transit, go to the farmers market) I will likely consider other cities to locate to that are more friendly and motivated to support my business endeavors.

[NJD]

um, Portland and Oregon are not "business unfriendly." I have a degree in business and have studied business tax structure in detail. I have also owned a business in Portland proper for 6 years. The only reason people say Portland is unfriendly is bias, inexperience and comparing the city to smaller towns and suburbs who offer more to business (at other expenses). If you compare Portland to other cities of comparable size, and states since they hold more business taxation and control, you will see Portland is actually very business friendly (unless, of course, your business is planning to do environmental damage). See this chart from OregonEcon blog:
http://oregonecon.blogspot.com/2010/...omparison.html



also look at the tax-benefit ratio: Oregon is 3rd BEST!

[PacificNW]

I am curious to how "fee's" add into the equation. I have heard the fee's Portland charges to open/start/operate a business are high in comparison to some other cities. Am I correct or is this a non issue?

[PDX City-State]

Sorry, but these graphs don't tell the whole story. While overall tax burden isn't overwhelming, our state taxes income and not consumption. We have no sales tax, and we pay ten percent of income to the state.

That said, I believe the primary reason the PDX economy sucks is simply because we do not have a pro-business culture. There's a fear of big companies and let's face it, people don't come to Portland to work.

[NJD]

^^ From my experience Portland's Systems Development Charges, Business Licensing and Design Review are on par with other similar sized cities. Most American (and world-wide) cities give tax breaks/ fee breaks to corporations who build big facilities and projects (look at Portland and Oregon State's waiving of property taxes and the issuance of a no-interest loan to Vestas for example).

The problem is you only hear about local public/private dealings, not those in Charlotte or wherever.

Portland is not very business friendly when it comes to giving out massive tax breaks and loans if you compare its track record with Dallas, Seattle, Sacramento, Chicago, New York, Denver, Kansas City, etc...

So, if you want to argue that Portland is anti-business, then yes, Portland doesn't hand over billions in incentives to keep Boeing, Goldman Sachs, Bank of America, or whoever else to move/stay here. The 'good ol' boys' network of fast-tracked tax incentives is harder to accomplish with a weak mayor/council governance, non-international standing, a relatively poor economic history, and stringent environmental policy. The environmental/ liberal thinking culture also hinders big business. Would you rather have that LNG plant in the city on a brownfield site rather than built on new land entirely? I doubt it. I doubt you'd want either.

As for small business, I find Portland to be fair priced in its fees and taxes. Every time I hear some small pizza joint complaining about $15k SDC's, a resale clothing store owner complain about the $600 sign permit, or a mid-sized creative firm can't expand their offices due to zoning law I get a little ticked off. Why? Because that's business. It's expensive. Your business is expensive to start up, yes, but not nearly as expensive as all the infrastructure within your city. Look at any company that moves to the burbs, gets hit with the same or more SDC's cause they need to build roads and sewers and schools and whatnot, and then they cry fowl there too saying business taxes are too high.

Creating a new business in an urban environment is smart, usually cheaper overall, sustainable and will cost an entrepreneur a crap ton of money regardless of where they go.

This is capitalism (well, technically we are more socialist, but shhhh don't tell anyone). Those with money will continue to make more money, those without money will have to work extremely hard or get lucky to ever make money.

The bottom line, as the City of Portland has already figured out, is that people want to LIVE here. That's enough. Intel moved here because the people they wanted to hire LIVE and move here (well, the metro area anyway, Hillsboro did give them tax breaks but for more of a 'business as usual' approach just like Vestas). Even Columbia Sportswear is contemplating moving back into Portland because the majority of their workers prefer to live in the city rather than Washington County.

Okay, I digress.

My market, my employees, and my way of life are definitely cohesive with staying in Portland, Oregon.

^ I don't think our economy is any worse off than anywhere else, seriously, I just think Portland has a 'create your own job' mentality of entrepreneurship, and knows that big business can leave your city devastated at any moment (remember Seattle losing 30,000 Boeing jobs, then losing WaMu). By the way, big business only equates for a small percentage of the overall job market, but they do have the majority of crap jobs. But whatever, our quality of life sure is way better than most places.

If a jobtm is all you care about, what really drives your life, go somewhere where jobs are aplenty. That's a freedom we all.

[PacificNW]

˙˙˙˙˙oɟuı ǝɥʇ ɹoɟ sʞuɐɥʇ

[Bobomo]

Sorry to bump this thread (although it was only 5 or so from the top)... but I posted this over a year ago and, when I didn't receive a response within the first week, completely forgot about it. Imagine my surprise a year later to see it had spawned a whole interesting conversation! A lot of useful info and opinions, so I thank you all for participating. It seems I hit on most of the major themes at the outset: not a "work-first" culture, high quality of life brings more people than jobs, lots of young, degree-toting people coming all the time. I do, however, find the whole conversation interesting.

As for me, in the month that this thread lay dormant, I found work in Oregon (farther South, quack) and have been here over a year - even bought a house! I would still like to move to Portland some day, which I suppose makes me part of the problem!

[JordanL]

Originally Posted by Bobomo

Sorry to bump this thread (although it was only 5 or so from the top)... but I posted this over a year ago and, when I didn't receive a response within the first week, completely forgot about it. Imagine my surprise a year later to see it had spawned a whole interesting conversation! A lot of useful info and opinions, so I thank you all for participating. It seems I hit on most of the major themes at the outset: not a "work-first" culture, high quality of life brings more people than jobs, lots of young, degree-toting people coming all the time. I do, however, find the whole conversation interesting.

As for me, in the month that this thread lay dormant, I found work in Oregon (farther South, quack) and have been here over a year - even bought a house! I would still like to move to Portland some day, which I suppose makes me part of the problem!

Start your own business.

Portland is a city where entrepreneurship should thrive. We have an endless supply of creative individuals, the culture of the city is open to considering new ideas, the culture also values the local businesses...

Starting a business, as someone who has worked for 5 start-ups and owned my own, is not about "the next big thing", or a "great idea", or even about finding funding.

Starting a business is almost completely about this: what is it that you can create? What can you create better than the average person?

Find a way to take what you can create and provide it to people as a product or service.

I am a very experienced web developer, proficient in about 14 scripting/coding languages. That is what I can create better than most people, and there are many ways for me to provide that as either a product or a service, many of which I've tried.

I enjoy it, although it isn't what I enjoy doing most, but starting a business isn't always about what you enjoy doing most, it's about what you enjoy at all and have a comparative advantage at.

This city should have many, many more start-ups than it does. I think that access to capital is the main reason it doesn't, as we don't have easily concentrated or accessible pools of investors lying around. But guess what? That itself is an untapped market, and the first person with the skills, capital and balls to dive into it will walk away looking like a genius.